Input requested on various rooting methods...

9 years ago

Hello All -

I am a relative newbie to this and mostly gotten cuttings locally and I root them using the 'conventional' method. My results seems varied. I don't think I am doing things differently between cuttings but some seems to have rotted on me, others seems to root fairly quickly and others just seems to just sit there for a while. The varied results comes even from cuttings from the same parent tree! I root them in clear plastic cups/bottles so I can see the roots. Some times I give up after a few months and pull the cutting out of the pot/bottle and I see the bottom 2-3inches rotted inside out (i.e. thin layer of skin while inside is totally empty/rotted away) and as I then tear off the bottom loose skin and get to where things are solid again, I see roots hidden inside that bottom skin layer and regret disturbing it...

At any rate, I decided to place an order with Derrick at Piece of Paradise and should be getting the shipment soon so reading up on the various methods to decide what I should do. I am intrigued by the water rooting method advocated by Freak4Plumeria.

I did some searching and reading and found this old thread here from last year.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2116765/best-and-quickest-rooting-method

It seems water rooting + bag rooting after the 3 weeks in water is another method that could speed things along.

Freak and all - would love to hear your comments and any updated thoughts of what you think of that new water + bag rooting method.

I also see that mjhuntingtonbeach tried the water rooting method and the "the magic just ain't there" for him. I live just next to HB so climate should be similar so might be very relevant to me.

At any rate, would love to hear your thoughts on this. Right now I'm leaning on splitting the cuttings into 3 groups and doing 3 methods: A. water rooting (max 3 weeks in water with ST + pot up and water more frequently/keep moist) B. Water + Bag per link above. C. "Traditional"/Conventional put in a pot and don't water until leaves.

Not quite sure if the results would be comparable or how to interpret since the cuttings are of different varieties/cultivars but it might give me a sense of what's "easier" to do balanced with quickness to roots/leaves.

Would love your input!

Featured Answer

Kimo

9 years ago

Tom,
I have rooted over 2,000 cuttings over the years, 90 percent water rooted only with no issues and great success
Actually the last cutting I tried rooting was the Red Dusk, I water rooted then bagged it so no updates since. I have 3 cuttings that I am going to water and bag root the same way I did with the Red Dusk. All 3 cuttings were broken off the trees by a falling Ruby Gold Plumie plant in a 30 gal pot, one of them I lost the name tag on but is an imported Thai variety(the mother tree has 2 inflos on it now so when it blooms Ill be able to ID and label it again.

I'll update later if there is anything different with these cuttings.
Cheers

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Comments (27)

barb13_gw
9 years ago
Hi Tom, People use different ways to start cuttings. I still like putting them in either water bottles or regular pots and water once, leave in the sun, most of my pots sit on cement and warm up from the bottom. I am in Lakewood, which is close to Long Beach in CA and I start a lot at a time. Some cuttings seem to grow roots right away but others seem to take forever. But I would say that out of 100, about 95+ will root. I think that the biggest mistake that people make is to water them after a month or so, you can mist them if you really feel that it is very hot and that they need a little water. Or they keep checking them by digging them up.

You really have to just leave them alone. Good luck on your next cuttings. And I am sure that other people will share how they start them. I do find that the bigger the cutting the easier it seems to root. Barb
Kimo
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Tom,
I remember Mike aka MJHuntingtonbeach's post. Maybe Mike can elaborate as to weather he potted up his water rooted cutting in soil and watered it regularly, or perhaps treated it like a traditional cutting after potting in soil and watered lightly once and waited for growth?
As ab experiment I once tried potting up water rooted cuttings in soil, followed the traditional method once potted of keeping the soil dry and found it set back the cuttings. Any root nubs and roots would die back or stunt, was almost like starting over.
I find personally, and for my growing area, I get the best results by keeping the soil moist, not wet, but moist (watering when the top of the soil has been dry for couple days, so every 5 to 10 days depending on temps.). Since my water rooted/started cuttings are use to the moisture it tends not to rot, but the moisture in the soil keeps the cutting and any root nubs/growth going.

Again not sure exactly how Mike treated his cuttings after the water rooting process, so can't speak for him.
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tom_socal
Original Author
9 years ago
barb13_gw - thanks for the feedback. I do try to just leave them alone but it is so very tempting to take a peek :) I'm usually really good about not giving in to temptation so try to root them in clear cups/bottles so I can see. However, I caught something in your post that perhaps indicates what I'm doing wrong. You said "I think that the biggest mistake that people make is to water them after a month or so". Given that I root in small cups and bottles, it dries out real quick. After 2-3 weeks, it's usually bone dry so I water them a little. Those that I pot in the bigger (2 quart + ) garden pots, I don't touch at all (no addl water other than initial drenching) but with the smaller cups/bottles, I can see it dry throughout after 2-3 weeks/month so I water a little. Should I not be doing that? I thought I read that there is supposed to be a little moisture in there.

freak4plumeria - do you have any updated thoughts on the water + bag rooting method? Have you tried it some more and does that change your thoughts any?

On the water rooting only (no bag) - agree it would be good to hear from Mike and see if he might be doing different than your method (perhaps no ST? water rooting in a hot spot? etc.). Mike- hope you're reading this and can comment :) I live in FV so our climates are similar so would love to leverage your experience.
barb13_gw
9 years ago
Hi Tom, You can see that people use different ways to start them. With your question, no water in small pots, you can mist once in a while but for me just leaving them alone works best for me. Good luck, Barb
tom_socal
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks! I've been following your posts for a while and they always struck me as very reasonable thought out and similar to how I would rationale things. I am going to try the water + bag method as well when I get the shipment in. Just to make sure that I do it the same way you are so that we can compare notes:

1. Prep: clean bottom few inches with papertowel + vinegar or with windex (I'm still LOL'ing on that one). Cut leaves but inflo can stay.

2. dip in antifungal + rooting hormone

3. let it sit/dry or a 3 or more days

4. put in 2-3in of water (rainwater if avail, tap otherwise) with ST. Leave in relatively cool area (garage or shade).

5. change water + ST every 2-3 days.

6. when I see popcorn or root nubs, pot up. I'm going to use 5-1-1 (not the 1-1-1 gritty mix) or big box store potting soil or cactus mix. (is there a preference/guidance here?

7. keep pot in hot area (cement for bottom heat) with sun.

8. water more often than "traditional" approach and keep dirt moist (probably once a week depending on hot/dry weather is).

9. jump for joy when leaves showing or roots showing against sides of water bottle!

Did I miss anything?
tom_socal
Original Author
9 years ago
hi Barb - missed your post while I typed up the last one. Thanks for the tip. That might be why my "conventional" rooting method is giving me such varied results as I'm not doing it so "conventional" after all! :) I'll remember to resist the urge to water even when the soil is bone dry until I see roots or leaves.
tom_socal
Original Author
9 years ago
freak - I forgot an important step in there: step 6A - pot up after 3 weeks even if no popcorn/root nubs.
Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
9 years ago
Tom.. There is a plumeria group called South Coast Plumeria Society that meets in your area.. I would check them out ... Another is Southern California Plumeria Society..

Lots of different ways .. I have tried them all!!

James is the water rooting king..

I like my clear cups.. I use rooting hormone and sulfur added to the cutting before callous ... Then I pot up and use the water once and leave alone until leaves. Clear cup help you peek without disturbing.

Check out the SCPS.

Laura
tom_socal
Original Author
9 years ago
Hi Laura - thanks for the feedback. I've seen some of the pictures you posted and your plants and flowers look gorgeous! And you're doing that in Virginia while I'm in sunny So Cal...I can only imagine what my garden would look like if I had a green thumb like yours...

I like the clear cups/bottles as well. Helps with the urge to check again if the any roots popped up in the last 5 minutes since I last checked! :) I think you and Barb have both confirmed my error with the "conventional" approach where I water when it is bone dry. I'll be better at "leave alone until leaves".

James/Freak referred me to the South Coast Plumeria Society as well when I first joined and posted. I checked out their website and there's some great info on the site. I missed their last meeting a week or two ago so will try to attend the next one. I'm just worried I might come home with the car full of plants...I'll try to leave my wallet at home and cross my fingers that they don't take IOU's there :)
rox146
9 years ago
Hi Tom, I am in late on this and am a believer in the "egg rooting method" which a few on here disagree with. It has never failed me..google it...I have 5 going right now from gifts and contests from this forum and all are showing nice push at the ends. They have been going for 1 month now. roxanne (VENTURA)
barb13_gw
9 years ago
Hi Roxanne, I use the egg method sometimes, but since I seem to be rooting a lot I save them for ones that I paid a lot for. It does work great but again you have to not check all of the time, by digging up the plant and also not watering which some people seem to always want to do. Have a great day, barb
moonie_57 (8 NC)
9 years ago
Hi Tom. I'm wondering if you callous your cuttings before rooting?

I've only attempted water rooting once and pulled it after a week because the bark was beginning to rot. It works very well for James but I have not yet tried water rooting again. I might sometime soon, though.

One time I also tried the egg rooting method but apparently broke the egg when I was potting it. Have not tried that again either. :)

One thing I've found is that people usually find a method that they are successful with and go with that. I currently bag root and have been most successful that way. Good luck!
Kimo
9 years ago
Hey Moonie,
I agree with your statement "Pepople usually find a method that they are successful with and go with that". There are reasons why people stick with certain methods. I tried the bag rooting 1x and it was very successful, so I am going to stick with it, basically start in water then bag them up. I like the bag rooting method post water rooting because it takes very little attention, space, soil, etc. Once I bag up a cutting I just lay it down in the garage and check it once a week or so.

I tried the Cling Wrap callousing method, but have not decided if I like it or not as 1 cutting did start to turn brown and ooze colored fluid. I know that David on the FB grp stated he had the same issue, but tried using a heating mat then it worked for him.
tom_socal
Original Author
9 years ago
Hi Roxanne - I did come across the egg method while researching. I tried it last year - just once so very small sample size. The cutting rooted - I don't know if I noticed that it was much faster than the "conventional" method (which I apparently misinterpreted and watered when very dry). To me that rationale is there for the egg method - lots of good stuff in the egg than can help feed the cutting. What I struggled with was finding a tall pot/container that could stay stable. I think I mentioned that I like to use clear cups/bottle so I could see the roots and I thought I heard some one say that you don't want too big of a pot when rooting so I thought cups/bottles would be good. So with the egg and soil space between egg and cutting, I found it difficult sometimes to get the cutting in deep enough to keep stable (I used support sticks which helped). I guess I might try again with some of the smaller cuttings that don't tip over so easily. What types of container do you use and how do you do it to keep the cutting stable?

Barb - back to the "conventional"/traditional method, I think the reasons why I had the thought that there was supposed to be some moisture there is perhaps how I interpreted reading things. I thought bag rooting and "conventional" rooting was similar in actions in the sense that the cutting prep was similar and it's rooting in soil from the get go. So I recall reading this bag rooting method from the SCPS: http://www.socalplumeriasociety.com/rooting-cuttings/bag-rooting-methods and in the hydration section he talks about keeping the soil moist and injecting liquids into the bag with a turkey syringe. And I think the PSA http://www.theplumeriasociety.org/plumeria-care/#plumeriacutting mentions a similar concept: "Stake the cutting for support or allow it to rest against side of container. Water very sparingly but keep the soil moist.". Please please don't take that this as me trying to argue against your point of not watering while rooting - just explaining where I got that train of thought from :) With you and Laura both esteemed and highly regarded members here advocating the "leave alone until leaves", I am definitely going to heed the advice and try it out.

Moonie - I do try to callous the cuttings. That is I leave them in some place try for about a week or more (when I try James water rooting though, I think he advocated 2-3 days if I read correctly). I don't stick them in sand or dry mulch or anything like that. I put rooting hormone on (if I remember) but otherwise they just sit there and dry in the garage for a week or 2. To my untrained eyes, I really don't know if a cutting has calloused enough. I know some of you mention swelling and such but I really can't tell the difference other than things are drier and sometimes shrinks even. And because I can't tell, I just go by time (1week minimum drying).

Yes - I'd like to try out these different methods and see what works for me and that I can do repeatedly. I just want to make sure that I do the methods right. :) For example, I tried water rooting once last year and it didn't work for me (it rotted) but perhaps it was because I used regular tap water in a big bucket (with no ST) and I put it in a sunny place and didn't change the water every 2-3 days. After reading James' notes more carefully, I noticed that perhaps they would have made a big difference.
barb13_gw
9 years ago
Hi Tom, You have to do what works for you. This works for me and I am posting pictures of the some of the ones I am starting this year. Some that I started last year. I do a lot of things that other people do not do. I don't dip them in anything, sometimes I plant them as soon as I cut it. I don't clean the clippers after cutting plants. But it seems to work for me. I know how hard it is when you first start out, since I lost the first ones then the second ones until I just got mad and put them in the hottest part of my yard. It has been about 20 years since I first had to have some and I will say that it is a hobby that I enjoy. It does drive me a little crazy sometime but love the flowers. Barb
rox146
9 years ago
love seeing all that Barb.....!!!!!! roxanne (and I thought I was bad) :-)
barb13_gw
9 years ago
Hi Roxanne, This is not even the whole yard. But on the upside so many plants are going to bloom this year, some for the first time. :) Barb
rox146
9 years ago
and the total count rooted is......????? I have 163 shoehorned into a tiny yard...I am now into 1 in/1 out...trying to upgrade at the same time....yours are lovely and we certainly had a mild winter which has helped all mine out for sure.
barb13_gw
9 years ago
Roxanne, I have no idea, I had to get more pots today and still have a couple of crates with cuttings sitting in them. I will be working on them this weekend. I also have seeds I just started. I have no idea how many rooted ones I have either but it is many more then I ever dreamed I would have. I am really running out of room, LOL, but then I have said that many times and still seem to find more room. My grandson thinks that it must be around 700 at this time. Barb
moonie_57 (8 NC)
9 years ago
Tom - I don't have time to look for you, but I bet you could find some photos on this forum of what a callous looks like. Hope the water rooting method works for you. We can't let James have all the fun, now can we? :)

Barb - I bet you aren't missing that pool at all!
barb13_gw
9 years ago
No, I am not missing it at all.
moonie_57 (8 NC)
9 years ago
I don't miss mine either, because it was an above ground. But my dogs do.
barb13_gw
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Sorry your dogs are missing your pool. I guess the plants and flowers are just not doing it for them. :)
gidgetsocal
9 years ago
WOWZA, Barb!!! I am bowing down to you right now!! That is quite some collection!! Impressive!!
tom_socal
Original Author
9 years ago
Barb - wow! That's amazing! I see many without tags, how do you keep track of all of those and what they are? Do you just know based on how the cuttings look?

We have a huge pool too that pretty much takes up most of our backyard. It came with the house - we didn't want a pool but the location was just too good to pass up. So thinking of covering it up as well but it is sooo expensive! I'm waiting/hoping CA will come up with some rebate plan for covering up the pool with the drought that's going on. Similar to the Cash for Grass programs.
barb13_gw
9 years ago
Hi Tom, I can tell which ones I started by seeds and as soon as they bloom, I do tag them. Others I get from other people and those I have to wait until they do bloom but with all of the ones that I have I still have lots of flowers to enjoy. I have bought mystery ones from a few people online and those I had to wait also, and then tag them.

We had the pool a long time and finally it got to the point that I could spend twice as much and have it repaved and replace the tile or we could fill it. I called around and each city had different rules but at least this city it was very easy to have it filled. A neighbor down the street gave me a good deal and the rest is history. Now I have much more room to enjoy my plants. Barb

Input requested on various rooting methods...

Kimo

Comments (27)

barb13_gw

Kimo

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tom_socal
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Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia

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rox146

barb13_gw

moonie_57 (8 NC)

Kimo

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barb13_gw

rox146

barb13_gw

rox146

barb13_gw

moonie_57 (8 NC)

barb13_gw

moonie_57 (8 NC)

barb13_gw

gidgetsocal

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barb13_gw

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Input requested on various rooting methods...

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