ROSE HELP - Curled Leaves, Burned Shoots, Dark Veins
Brandon Cakes
9 years ago
Aloha everyone!
My name is Brandon, and I am new to the forum. I've been lurking as a visitor for quite some time, and have all my questions answered here. I do have one though, any ideas what's wrong with my roses?
I purchased 3 bareroot roses from Regan Nursery back in January, and had them arrive here in Hawaii in February. Two own-roots - Eden(Pierre de Ronsard) and Pretty In Pink Eden(Margaret Mae) - and the third is a grafted Joseph's Coat. Joseph is doing really well right now, no sign of whatever the other roses have, and double in size. Whatever's going on in that pot, I'm wishing would happen to the rest! Both Edens have the "burned" shoots and curling leaves. I also ordered a few own-roots from Heirloom Roses - Portlandia, A Shropshire Lad, Abraham Darby, Crown Princess Margareta, Dublin Bay, Ginger Syllabub, and Jude The Obscure. They took off, and looked wonderful, but now they're getting hit with whatever this is. Most of them are showing the curling leaves, but Portlandia has some dark veins, and the blooms have been extremely tiny since the leaves started to curl. Locally, I purchased 2 Americas which have been blooming and increasing in size...but now they're getting the curled leaves.
The leaves that are curled, are extremely stunted. Is there some sort of deficiency? They're also pretty hard and crispy feeling. As for the burned shoots, the black parts just break off if touched. Any ideas what could be going on? Here is the potting medium(10 gallon pots): 1/2 potting soil, 1/2 compost, a good shovel of steer manure(purchased from a garden center), and about a cup of bone meal blended in. There's a good layer of cedar mulch around the base as well. I did over fertilize once with Miracle Grow Rose Food. I used the wrong side of the spoon and fed it to all the roses. After learning of this, I over watered them all to flush out the food. I don't think this could have been the problem though, because Dublin Bay, Jude The Obscure, A Shropshire Lad, and Ginger Syllabub have all come in AFTER I overfed, and are all having these symptoms. We have been having some strong winds, but that too may not be a problem considering Joseph is so large and nice, and only have leaf tears.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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roses slowly turning brown and leaves curling up, what;s wrong
Comments (10)People are supposed to get their vitamins from their food; plants get theirs from the soil. Neither should depend on supplements. A plant should be able to live under local conditions. Fortunately, roses have lived all over the world all by themselves without soil ammendments, fertilzers, bone meal, phosphates, etc. Their mid-range Ph tells you they are more generalized than specialized. They won't survive in all environments, but in most, and some classes do better or worse here or there (see the discussion on killing Bourbons in Maryland in the Antique Roses forum). You should never add supplements until you have had your soil analized. 'Kill' is the important part of 'overkill.' If you have had your soil analized or the plant is showing specific symptoms of a nutrient failure, supplement that one thing. If the plant has been under stress or neglect, supplements are the equivalent of taking vitamins when you're ill. I Super-Thrive new plants and transplants and give them a good starter soil and I dig in an all-purpose organic fertilzer twice a year--plant feast days (feasting is an important part of balancing a diet; nature provides 'feasts' which we generally do not allow in our gardens). Otherwise, if a plant can't live off the local mother earth, s/he needs a new home....See MoreShooting in the dark!
Comments (6)If I were you I would cool it on the lime. 5.6 would have been fine for roses and 6.1 is right in their wheel house. Those are low iron numbers. Depending on soil type, something in the 60 to 120 lbs./acre range would be a little better. I would use some iron sulfate. That stuff acidifies but not a whole heck of a lot at the rate you would use. Besides, you've got some room to play with on the pH and you've added some lime so it shouldn't be a problem. Just be careful if you go that route because iron sulfate severely stains wet concrete and hardscape. If you've bumped your soil pH over 7.0 with the xecond lime application, you might want to use chelated iron. If you don't like the DTPA and EDDHA, etc., you can use something chelated with lignosulfate (although I have not seen it work very well) The difference in nitrogen values could be a sampling thing. It could also be because nitrogen was added between the first and second sample. Nitrate contributes to salinity more than ammonium and that's pretty high nitrate so you might see a little spike in your salt level and tip burn on older leaves since roses are sensitive to saline soil conditions. However, nitrate leaches pretty readily (along with being the form used most quickly by the plants) so it shouldn't be a big deal for too long. Your organic matter is pretty good. I usually tell folks to shoot for somewhere between 5 and 6 percent so a wood product top mulch would be good for a whole bunch of reasons and will increase the O.M.% as it decomposes. Most labs tack on a computer generated recommendation that rarely has any connection whatsoever to the real word. I would ignore the recommendation for P and K if they really are high. (but you didn't post the numbers so I don't really know)...See MoreToo much compost? Curly leaves, purple veins
Comments (48)amysrq, thanks for your reply! I'm glad your tomatoes outgrew this. I just de-mulched mine and threw the straw on some poison ivy! Also removed half the plants, including soil (that was hard -- they had already made beautiful strong root balls), and replanted with some extra tomatoes that I still had in the cold frame. Did you get normal fruit from yours, once they started growing again? I notice that mine have pretty much stopped growing altogether. The flowers that were there a week ago are still there and are not developing at all. sigh... usually I start getting tomatoes by the end of June. I guess this year I will be lucky to get enough to freeze any. Did you figure out the source of the herbicide contamination on yours? Was it the Mainely Mulch? From now on I am using only the products of my own yard for mulch. What a shame that the most powerful country in the world doesnt choose to protect its citizens from the reckless acts of greedy corporations....See MoreNeed help with Tomato - Brown Spots, Curled Leaves, Indoor Garden
Comments (5)Dan, I've used a few different mixes in containers and I like the sound of your sea soil. The problem with containers is that the system is really too small to set up a true organic soil system in them. People do all sorts of things and may technically get away with it, but I my abilities can't do a completely organic soil and get reliable production, since any "help" and you kid yourself that it is "almost organic". That said, I had some luck with a mixture of 1/3 compost (Black Kow Composted Organic), 1/3 peat & 1/3 perlite in summer but you must watch it doesn't get waterlogged. I know it sounds strange, but raw perlite is "organic". You could put some of those fancy rock dusts in there and dolomitic lime and give it a whirl. Problem is at some point your plants will need the nutrient boost of something like Miracle Gro, which is not organic, but not as bad as some make it out to be, either! There are some Fox Farms hydroponic/organic and Dutch Master hydro organic ones, but these things are really cost intensive and there is no way I could afford to even evaluate them. Tomato-Tone is organic and you can use some of it (the affordable option I would use) but a lot of experimentation is necessary to get it right in a bucket. Those are the tools I would use. There are others that are more expert than I am in this forum on organic methods in a container, but the problem is that ingredients and climates can vary enough that a lot of experimentation is necessary anyway and it is a bit much to ask of a container considering the nutrient demands of a big tomato plant. And a bigger contaner ( say, 25 gallons) can be costly to fill with organic nutrients only. There are other much more economic ways to go if you drop the requirement of deriving all nutrition from "organic" sources, for example pine mulch, etc, is cheap but offers no nutrition so it doesn't get you anywhere nutrient wise, though it might help you save on perlite. I can't answer whether your tap is appropriate for your plant, even knowing the pH is 7.5. That's because it will be the interaction among the tap, soil ingredients and amendments that determine the pH of the container. For example, if your soil starts on the acid side which it likely will it needs to be neutralized with some lime, but you can do what I do ... put less in and water with alkaline water for a while. Clearly that is not an optimal situation but to be honest my plants do fine despite all the issues with pH, and my tap is pH 7.7. But this is a fragil relationship and the only way to now for sure is to pH test your soil while you grow toget the hang of what's happening, if you are really enthusiastic. Just because it works for me, btw, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. We get lots of rain here and that frequently washes trhough soil mixesand I purposely open the tops wide to encourage that. No residue builds up from the tap or any of my not-organic supplements due to the rain. The common wisdom of hydroponics of a vegetative and a reproductive period fertilization schemes doesn't seem very pronounced to me when growing the tomato for the long haul. To be perfectly honest, I think all these mantras about vegetative stages and drastic changes during flowering stages are geared towards high value crops LOL. Really with tomato plants you want to keep the nitrogen at a baseline, low in all of my scenarios. You are not growing vines, they get quickly unmanageable for indeterminates and make few tomatoes, and most everyone here seems to agree that being pretty stingy with nitrogen is the way to go. That's the opposite of what you've done. When I grow my tomatoes, my seedlings have only 1/2 to 2/3 the nitrogen the producing plants do, so my nitrogen rate actually increases for me. At the end I back off though because the plants get less productive and unmanageable so there's a lot of give and take. Hope that helps a little, because nothing is as easy as it seems, so most people find something that works and get pretty stuck to it. Cheers PC...See MoreBrandon Cakes
9 years agoBrandon Cakes
9 years ago
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