I have a traffic-stopper combination of two Agastache - two of agastache ava, desert sunrise, and blue blazes. Picture the two below, growing together. About 3-5 feet tall, and with 7 plants, you'd fill that space. Some people have trouble with them - they can get wet feet over the winter, or they can dry out over the winter on a sunny southern exposure - might need a slosh of water now and again. You'll get blooms from early August through October. Garish? why yes it is. :)

Hello, before we can suggest what to add to your space we need to know your zone. The first thing that comes to my mind is hydrangeas, the semi shade should be ok for them. They will eventually (so they say) get 5 ft wide and tall. There are several varieties to choose from. You can google them and see which ones appeal to you. They do take a while to get established (mature) but they do bloom in their early life. The big mophead variety comes to mind. I'm the impatient kind of gardener so I add annuals (one season is all you get with these) to fill in until the desired plant reaches maturity. Hydrangeas don't like to dry out, so the water supply has to be desirable. As well as good drainage which shouldn't be an issue in a raised bed. But something to keep in mind.

You said your peonies did not bloom a lot this spring, which tells me you may be in a warmer zone. My peonies have barely broke ground and are far from setting buds. They may need to be moved closer to the edge of the bed so they get more sun, they are full sun lovers.

I'm not familiar with the type of clematis you mentioned. I may be completely wrong but I think clematis need support in which to climb, however there may be some that wander rather than climb.

Good luck.

Thanks for the replies!

David, the combination will certainly be an eye catcher! wow! however, does the agastache need lots of sun? this spot is shaded for much of the day. I'm used to seeing agastache in hot dry, xeric places... I have plenty of those, this is the only shady spot in the garden. I'd like something that would also have a presence in the winter.

Maid, I'm in Denver (actually, Wheat Ridge/Lakewood area, west of city proper). When I moved here in 1997, it was borderline zone 4/5; I moved away and then back, and in the meantime, it has been reclassified as 6a!! climate change??? anyway, I thought of hydrangea for that spot, but am a little concerned because it would be exposed to drying winds in the winter. Are there some hydrangeas that are tougher than others and would tolerate those conditions? I planted an oakleaf hydrangea 'Alice' last fall in a sheltered spot next to the house, and it is happily budding away.

The clematis is a yellow c. orientalis that I bought at Timberline garden last year, it is a shrubby clematis (I have a thing for non-vining clematis, and have several varieties). Not sure if it has a variety name, I could look for the tag if you are interested.

On the peonies, I meant last spring. They are only a few inches high right now. You are probably right, I think I am going to have to move them to a sunnier spot.

Thanks!

I'm surprised you found a C. orentalis at a garden center. Chinese clematis is is a class B invasive weed in Jefferson County, meaning eradication is required when found and it's illegal to sell. It is also an (intensely vigorous) vining type of clematis, I'm guessing (hoping?) what you got from Timberline is not C. orientalis.

My apologies for the OT reply.

Yes, I know that the vining type of c. Orientalis is a noxious ? weed. But this is not the vine and I trust Kelly at Timberline to not sell on appropriate plants.

Thanks for pointing that out! As someone who works in reclamation, I understand the problem with invasives.

I didn't know there was a non-vining orientalis. Not that that is surprising, flowers are not my area of expertise (this is the first year I've gotten into perennials at all).

I would trust Timberline as well, from what I have heard about them. I was just wondering if maybe something was mislabeled (or, sometimes plants are "reclassified" with a new genus and/or species without telling anyone lol).

That's pretty neat! Who do you work for? Part of my job is invasive weed abatement and control for Colorado Parks and Wildlife and one of the volunteers at at the park does a lot of work with invasives for Highlands Ranch. She told me that there are people out there who are cultivating things like field bindweed and mullein as garden plants!

Hi Julia,

I've been trying to find time to come post here! As usual, I have more questions than answers!

You say your spot is getting midday sun--which is a definite problem with putting in most shade things! With where the sun is now, from when to when is the area in the sun?

Also, watering on a slope--ANY slope, even a very gradual one (and it sounds like yours is more than "gradual") is difficult, at best. Assuming you have clay like most of the rest of us, much of the water will just run off. (I have a couple VERY slightly sloped beds in my backyard, and it seems like they're ALWAYS dry.) So are you planning to put in any sort of a drip system at the base of each plant, or are you planning to water overhead, and, if so, with what kind of a sprinkler?

As David already suggested, with "midday" sun (and depending on how many hours it is) you might be best going with some of the truly xeric things--which would certainly make the "watering problem" easier to handle.

So sun "from when to when," and what are your watering plans?

I'm really busy with some stuff right now, but will try to come back with some recommendations if you can answer those questions.

Skybird

P.S. Julia AND Zach, I never heard of the same genus/species of something being two entirely different things, and I wonder if there's some "mislabeling" involved here. I'm absolutely positive Kelly wouldn't sell anything on ANY of the noxious weed lists (A,B,C), and I checked his 2012 perennials list and he didn't list a C. orientalis--didn't have time to check his 2015 list (which I don't have downloaded!) I'm planning to go over there to talk to him late May or early June, and will try to remember to ask him about it!

Skybird, you should try to find something on the USDA Plant database! You type in the botanic name and you get all the different names with their synonyms, depending on who described them, and when. But, of course, they don't send out a newsletter with the "newest version" lol.

I.E. Rhus aromatica var. arenaria is the same thing as R. trilobata var. arenaria. There was one I was looking up a little while ago that cameup with a good dozen like that! I was looking at a plant ID book at work yesterday and everything had synonyms, and since that book was published over 30 years ago, they probably would need to add more haha!

Now, back to Julia and her actual question! Once again my apologies!

I’m gonna hijack this further—as I go on a rant about the
changes in genus/species names!

The guys in the suits sitting in offices need to keep their
hands off of The Names and get them out in the dirt where they might actually
accomplish something! The chaos created
by their constantly changing the names is absolute insanity when you’re working
in the industry and trying to figure out what other people are talking about,
and sometimes even trying to understand what YOU’RE talking about!

One of my Pet Peeves is Wooly Thyme! Has switched back and forth from Thymus
lanuginosus to/from T. pseudolanuginosus so many times it makes your head
spin. Apparently the guys in the suits can’t
figure out if it’s “pseudo” or not! Also
goes by T. praecox ‘Pseudolanuginosus’, turning a “species” into a variety
name, and also goes by T. praecox pseudolanuginosus, giving it TWO species
names! Several years back when I was
posting something here, trying to be as accurate as I could, I emailed the
owner of perennials.com (and publisher of Heritage Perennial Gardening Guide, a
good reference book) to ask if he could help with the “most recent”
genus/species, and even he wasn’t sure what the (then) proper nomenclature
was! Who knows what it’s called right
now!

And “all things pertaining to the genus
Chrysanthemum!” What a mess! When I was a kid, painted daisies were Pyrethrum. In the Modern Age they wobble back and forth
from Tanacetum coccineum to Chrysanthemum c.
Call a painted daisy a Chrysanthemum and nobody wants it! They want painted daisies, not mums! Same thing with Shasta daisies! Forever I knew it as Leucanthemum maximum,
sometimes Leucanthemum x superbum, but at least still a Leucanthemum! Then the Suits changed IT to
Chrysanthemum—pick a species, maximum or superbum—who knows! Customers wanted Shasta daisies, NOT
mums! That name also continued to switch
back and forth, and since the sales benches were set up alphabetically by
botanical name, I could never find them and was always on the radio going: Can anybody tell me what’s Latin for Shasta
daisies these days?

And a favorite of mine—also a “Chrysanthemum”—they now say! The late-blooming, butterfly-loving ‘Hillside
Pink Sheffield’ (tho nobody can figure out in exactly what order the words in
the variety name should be!) that I’m always giving away at the swaps. Forever it was Dendranthemum (a/k/a
Dendranthema) grandiflorum, but then the suits decided IT was a “mum” too! Just Chrysanthemum, with NO species—and the
mixed up variety name! When I post about
that one I always add that it “used to be” Dendranthemum so people won’t think
it’s a “mum!”

And another real pet peeve of mine is hardy pampas grass,
which was changed from Erianthus ravennae to Saccharum ravennae!
Those two names are still used
interchangeably online! Now that really helped to “straighten out”
what it is, didn’t it!?! And to make it
even worse with that particular grass, people already confuse it with “true”
pampas grass (Cortaderia), so now you have folks who don’t know there’s a
“hardy” and a “not-so-hardy” pampas grass and they wind up with three
completely different names and don’t know what they should be buying.

The upright sedum I mentioned on your one thread, they
really messed up when they “simply” removed the species—spectabile—all
together, renaming them with just “Sedum” and the variety name! Since there are SO many kinds of sedums, just
a variety name doesn’t tell you ANYTHING about the plant!

We always say, please use botanical names so we know what
you’re talking about! Yeah, like that
always helps!!! The Suits really need to
get a hobby!

BUT, all of that still doesn’t explain why the exact same
genus AND species of a plant would/could be two entirely different things—and I
still don’t think they are. There MUST
be some mix-up in the labeling, or name somehow!

End of rant! I
concede! Sorry ‘bout that! You may have your thread back, Julia!

Skybird

P.S. Zach, I don’t usually
find that USDA plant database very useful—except sometimes to use the maps to
see where something grows.

Whew! rant on, Skybird!!

It may be that I got the name wrong on the shrubby clematis with yellow flowers - I will root around in the dirt today to see if I left the tag on. Maybe tangutica? names don't stick as well as they used to...

Zach, I work for an oil and gas company and we have to reclaim all of our sites after we drill the wells. If invasive weeds get a toehold before the seeded plants come in, it's a mess.

Julia, I know this is more OT stuff, but if you work in reclamation I'm wondering if you have any good info about tamarisk/Tamarix mitigation and/or eradication? (beyond the mites) Another imported species--that was "imported" to FIX a problem, and only wound up causing worse problems! Any info, or places to find info, would be appreciated.

Skybird

ZACH REMOVED THE POST THIS IS IN REPLY TO!

Zach,

I'd love to have any info you may have access to! The stuff has taken over the far southwestern corner of the state (and lots of other places!) and is along every stream and gully, sucking up ALL the valuable moisture that's needed for REAL plants! Last year I was researching reforestation for the burn areas on the Ute Mountain Tribal Park, and since finding out about the tamarisk problem, now I'm doing my best to find helpful mitigation info about that. There are endless masses of the stuff along the Mancos River, which used to flow year round, and doesn't even have a chance anymore between the drought down there and the tamarisk! And, not to mention that the tamarisk "squeeze out" all the natural things that used to grow along the streams--like so many "introduced" species do! When Humans try to FIX Nature, it usually doesn't work! Dumb Humans!

Last fall I spent some time researching the problem, and the tamarisk beetles (I called them mites above!), from what I could find, aren't doing much, so I keep thinking there MUST be a better way! Hope I'm not wrong about that.

Don't know if you--or anybody you work with--have any use for this, but here's a link to a site I found with LOTS of Tamarisk info! I've looked at some of the links, but it's endless!

http://tamariskcoalition.org/resource-center

Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it and also saved a pdf I found on the site. Knowledge is Power--sometimes! ;-)

Skybird

P.S. Julia, are you still claiming this thread??? ;-D Seriously, I asked some questions about your situation up at my "Monday at 11:54 p.m." post, and if you find time to answer them I really will try to help with what you originally posted about here!

Hi Skybird,

In order to answer your question, I was planning to measure the time that the sun was on this part of the bed today, since I am home, but it was too cloudy! maybe tomorrow, but the weather doesn't look much better. But, the spot is shaded by a large oak tree that is to the southeast until probably 1 pm or so, then the house shades it in the late afternoon. Also, it is on a flatter part of the berm that is supported by some large rocks, so runoff is not a problem, and I have added a lot of compost over the years so it is not too clayey. I am planning to extend the drip system to this part of the flowerbed, but right now the bed gets watered by hand.

A few days ago there was a 30% off sale at Wayside Nursery on Hydrangea panticulata Zinfin Doll (silly name, but a pretty plant with white flowers that turn pink as they age). It is supposed to be hardier than most, wants partial shade to sun, and also tolerates some drought (so they say...). I might try it in this spot unless someone tells me its a bad idea.

Thanks,

Julia

How much direct sun there actually is is pretty important, so, whenever you get around to watching for a day or two! I was just afraid the "original intent" of this thread had been lost in all the OT talk! And I was wondering if maybe the questions I posted had gotten lost in all the jabber!

If you really have hot "high altitude" midday sun, I'm not sure how well a hydrangea is gonna work for you. Say that because there was one (put in by landscapers!) in front of my house (south side) when I bought it, and while it bloomed beautifully, the stems were so wimpy that as soon as the flowers got wet the whole thing got smashed down to the ground and destroyed. I gave it away to a a friend who has it in a shadier location, and it seems to be doing very well for her! Mine was a different species (variety 'Anabelle') and I don't know if that would make any significant difference or not. But if you have "enough" hot midday sun, you just might be better off going the "xeric" route and leave the soil dry much more--which would be much easier for you to take care of. If you do try a Hydrangea, you will for sure need to keep it WET virtually all the time. I don't really want to scare you away from it, but it makes more sense to know the pros and cons before you pay for something.

Come back when you've had time to watch your sun--which, if the weathermen are right, won't be for the next few days! Knowing how many hours of sun will make it a lot easier to try to decide what to do.

Skybird

That's a tough spot! Morning shade with full afternoon sun and flowering requirements is a tricky combination, as is the limited space. Out of the box thinking would be a feature conifer, which doesn't give you flowering but will provide year round interest. I'm thinking a dwarf conifer like Carsten's Wintergold mugo pine.

Carsten's

or Pinus sylvestris 'Gold Coin'.

Gold Coin

or psuedotsuga menzisii 'Graceful Grace'

Graceful grace

I think a dogwood, viburnum, maybe even cotinus would work, too, but with limited flowering and might outgrow the space.

Your lilies might like it there!