I think the real problem here is that you are expecting the plants to supply an overabundance of oxygen in the water and this is just not going to happen. Most of the oxygen the plants release is going into the air. Eventually without frequent or continuous water changes that supply more oxygen in the water the water becomes stagnant ie. anaerobic, (sometimes known as black water)which may be great for some bad bacteria which thrive when there is no oxygen but is deadly for fish long before the water becomes cloudy. Eventually the plants will die too,since the combination of lack of oxygen and anaerobic bacteria will kill the roots. You may know of this as root rot. You must supply air to the water in some manner to avoid this. Another problem which comes with just topping off the pond is a buildup of minerals in the water. This can kill your plants almost as fast. Filter material can prevent some of this but not all of it. You may see evidence of this when the plants get brown edges. Some plants handle these alkaline conditions better than others. A spider plant is a good signal plant for this problem. Sandy

jclimber, I've have a setup very similar to what you are talking about though my pond is only half the size, still large for an ornamental pond with goldfish. I have a Savio Skimmer with two pumps, one goes to a rapids effect at a small, small stream that feeds in under the biofilter fall, and, the other one pumps into the biofilter. I also have an upper pool and a lower pool separated by a wide but short water fall. The Savio Skimmer (full size) is located at the other end of the lower pool from the waterfall. My two magdrive pumps work fine. Laguna brand 3900 waterfall pumps. That all said, I would take ccoombs advice, no doubt. The number one problem with my pond is keeping the detritus and other junk off the bottom. In fact, you never can keep it off the bottom. The detritus is so fine that you only stir-it up if you get in to clean the pond. So my advice would be to go with the bottom drain setup but still use a skimmer box for the top floating stuff. Thanks for the btm drn link, ccoombs; I hadn't seen that... and thanks for the explanation of the bottom drain (not for draining, necessarily) because when I first heard about BDs that what I thought for sometime! I like the suggestions for saving money. If you can afford the time, better to make your own... esp. underlayment; I actually think old carpet (go dumpster diving at a carpet store) is superior to the underlayments I've laid hands on. Here's another suggestion: I'd get the rock out. It would be one thing if they were in the water atop the liner, but rolling liner up over them is just taking up space. Plus, you could use those big ones to help landscape at the edge. So it occurred to me when you talked about getting an electrician to bring a circuit out to the pond that this electrician is going to have to pay someone to trench. Most places are under the National Electric Code and that means burying the cable 30" or more... they're going to want to use a trencher. If you're going to have to get a trencher in for that you could save by getting a mini-excavator (rental from any tool/equip rental shop) and have it equipped with multiple bucket sizes... most come with options. get a slender bucket for the trench work, wider bucket for the rock. If an excavator can't lift the rock it should be able to beat on it enough to crack it smaller and scoop it out... of course, you could just pay someone to remove the large rocks. Whatever you decide make sure you have 'em mark the area for underground utilities. I really like your setup though. You never did say if you planned to have fish, what kind? Is that a german sheppard!? He/She will love the pond!

Ok, that makes sense. I forgot that every time it turns back on it would continue pumping. duh. The bottom drain is an Aqua Art retro fit bottom drain with 3" opening. It is connected to a black flexible tubing that is really hard (almost w/ a metal coil in it?). It is reduced from 3" to 2" and then runs back to the pump. I had a Sequence pump but that thing sucked (not literally, unfortunately). I had to have it repaired 2x and it was NOT cheap to begin with! It lasted 2 yrs. BOOOO. When it last gave up the ghost, it was 1.5 months ago. I found a hayward 1.5 HP super pump on craiglist for $150. The pond was w/o a functioning BD for about a month. Here is where it all goes downhill. lol So the previous pump was connected to the hose in from the BD and hose out to the bead filter by the black hoses that were connected with a black screw-on style of fitting. They simply did NOT come off, no matter what. The new pump had smaller openings and so the old fittings wouldn't work. We had to cut off the "screw" ends and use compression fittings instead (the black squishy sleeves w/ two metal bands that you screw to tighten). The first day that we turned the pump on and were messing w/ it, the same top fitting popped off b/c it wasn't seated properly (the hose hit me in the head, almost knocked me out from the pressure...lol...bruise on my forehead for 2 wks!). Because of that, I was paranoid and was actually shutting it off at night...just in case something went wrong. (I know, this is a long story lol) Saturday during the day, we saw that the pump was emptying faster than the water could come into the basket and we realized the BD was partially clogged and decided to get in the pond and get it freed up. DH jumped in and pulled it up...cleared it out and then set it up on two large pieces of flagstone so it wasn't directly on the bottom of the pond. (Note: had he not done this, when the disaster happened, it would've drained the ENTIRE pond. Truly a lifesaving decision for the fish that lived in the remaining 6" of water b/c of that flagstone!) Anyhoo, everything was riproaring along at 100mph again and I was checking the basket frequently...not much there. That night was the ONE night I didn't unplug it overnight...I forgot. Small debris plugged up the basket, increasing the pull of the pump, which started moving around the hose on the top of the pump. It was moving enough to pull the compression fitting off and it popped the hose off. The water simply geysered out of the top of the pump until the pond was almost completely empty. SOOOOO...way more than you asked but I have known you long enough to know that you like a clear picture, MIke! LOL I"m hoping that makes the error of my ways clear enough! At this time I am only running the BD during the day and am trying to find screw-on fittings to replace the existing compression fittings. Additionally, I have bungee'd the BD to a crate so it is a foot off the floor of the pond. I have also been partaking of some retail therapy and have a little mass of baby koi in the pond right now. They just came up and started eating food this morning and I literally screamed with delight LOL! I'm not sure how these water bobbermcthingie's work but I *think* the external pump is close enough that if it truly does have a 20' cord, I can put it in the body of the pond and run the cord back to where the pump is. Need to get to the store today and get one to rig it!

I don't think just brushing off the snow will be enough. You need to maintain a hole in the ice for oxygen. That's very deep for things to still be dying so much over the winter. Maybe it was just nature weeding out the weaker ones? Do you know how many fish you have total? A large pond like that should be able to successfully maintain a lot of goldfish. I would just make sure there isn't too much debris on the bottom (releases ammonia and nitrites which build up and cause problems) before freeze up, and try to keep a couple of holes open as much as possible. A cheap way to keep holes in the ice is to put pots of boiling water on the ice until it melts through, but that can be labour intensive in very cold weather.