Not sure how to embed an image, so here is a link of the pond:

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:197506}}

How about a bottom drain??! And an external pump. A mag drive pump would be impratical to move that much water.

I went on ebay and looked for a couple of days and I got one for 330 including the shipping and it was a 25x20 foot one, and it was 45 mil. locally they were asking 480 for the same thing.
We did the cinder block thing for the falls and covered it with dirt and it worked very well.

And yes the skimmer is a notch at the end of the pond.
I don't know anything about your other questions.

If I may, I'll make a few suggestions. First of all, a submersible pump is not going to be big enough if you plan to keep koi. For goldies or water gardens, turning the water over once every two hours might be enough but for koi you need more. You should plan on once every hour. You will lose some pump turnover volume through the filter and plumbing so a 5000 gph pump won't actually deliver 5000 gph. I'd suggest for a pond that size you go with two smaller pump and two filters instead of just a single one.

You really should consider a bottom drain going to one of the filters. They are very easy to install and I have never had one leak. A bottom drain means you will never have to muck out or vacuum the pond. The pond bottom will stay clean. The bottom drain gravity flows to a filter and then the water is pumped back to the pond, already cleaned. If you want to do just a single filter, you can use a Savio skimmer and run the bottom drain line up into the bottom of the skimmer. Its not quite as good as two separate systems, but it does still work quite well. A skimmer is pretty important. It catches leaves and other surface floating items before they settle to the bottom. Savio skimmers can be used on ponds that are not raisedÂ.thatÂs now my pond is. You can use a large submersible pump inside the skimmer to push water to the waterfalls.

For underlayement, consider using carpet. ItÂs free and it works very well!

Now my biggest concernÂyour pond walls. While clay might seem very strong and hard, it is actually very unstable. The microscopic partials that make up clay are round. When they get damp, they slip and slide against each other. I have known of at least 4 ponds that caved after they were built. The result is not pretty. I prefer straight vertical walls that are built of concrete block. ItÂs not hard to do. I just dry-stack them and then fill the cores with concrete. The vertical walls make it easy to get in and out of the pond if you ever have to get in. Sloping walls are treacherous. Once they get covered with algae, getting in and out is next to impossible. At the very least, pour a cement collar around the top of the pond to hold everything in place.

If you would like to see some great pond construction threads, check Koi Shack. There are quite a number of creative pond build threads and DIY filtration.

All - thanks for the supplies.

ccoombs1/mybusyfamil6 - looks like a skimmer will work if I cut a notch in the pond to hold the skimmer shell + pump. I was hoping to not have to dig anymore but maybe this is worth it.

Not quite picturing a bottom drain. This is a filter and submersible pump sitting on the bottom of the pond? To clean it you have to pull the filter out of the pond?

Pondmaster and Savio make 6000+ gph pumps so that is an option though 2 smaller pumps may work better. Maybe a 3000+ pump for the skimmer and 2500 gph one for the waterfall?

A bottom drain is actually not for draining, it's for moving water from the pond to the filter along with the waste that falls to the bottom of the pond. It means you never have to vacuum or muck out the pond. The pump is installed after the filter, and clean water is pumped back to the pond. It makes pond maintenance a breeze!! Attached is a link that show you how it works and how it is installed.

jclimber, I've have a setup very similar to what you are talking about though my pond is only half the size, still large for an ornamental pond with goldfish. I have a Savio Skimmer with two pumps, one goes to a rapids effect at a small, small stream that feeds in under the biofilter fall, and, the other one pumps into the biofilter.

I also have an upper pool and a lower pool separated by a wide but short water fall. The Savio Skimmer (full size) is located at the other end of the lower pool from the waterfall.

My two magdrive pumps work fine. Laguna brand 3900 waterfall pumps.

That all said, I would take ccoombs advice, no doubt. The number one problem with my pond is keeping the detritus and other junk off the bottom. In fact, you never can keep it off the bottom. The detritus is so fine that you only stir-it up if you get in to clean the pond. So my advice would be to go with the bottom drain setup but still use a skimmer box for the top floating stuff.

Thanks for the btm drn link, ccoombs; I hadn't seen that... and thanks for the explanation of the bottom drain (not for draining, necessarily) because when I first heard about BDs that what I thought for sometime!

I like the suggestions for saving money. If you can afford the time, better to make your own... esp. underlayment; I actually think old carpet (go dumpster diving at a carpet store) is superior to the underlayments I've laid hands on.

Here's another suggestion: I'd get the rock out. It would be one thing if they were in the water atop the liner, but rolling liner up over them is just taking up space. Plus, you could use those big ones to help landscape at the edge. So it occurred to me when you talked about getting an electrician to bring a circuit out to the pond that this electrician is going to have to pay someone to trench. Most places are under the National Electric Code and that means burying the cable 30" or more... they're going to want to use a trencher. If you're going to have to get a trencher in for that you could save by getting a mini-excavator (rental from any tool/equip rental shop) and have it equipped with multiple bucket sizes... most come with options. get a slender bucket for the trench work, wider bucket for the rock. If an excavator can't lift the rock it should be able to beat on it enough to crack it smaller and scoop it out... of course, you could just pay someone to remove the large rocks.

Whatever you decide make sure you have 'em mark the area for underground utilities.

I really like your setup though.

You never did say if you planned to have fish, what kind?

Is that a german sheppard!? He/She will love the pond!

For sure install the "bottom drain". I had never heard of this when I built mine and have been slugging along with a retrofit.

My pond is larger and I have a pair of skimmers with one bio falls and a large pressurized filter to another falls. I also have a UV Light system with 2 50W bulbs. System works well, it has been a multi-season to get it all right though.

If you have not bought skimmers, go for the type with vertical brushes. I have installed 3 types so far, but I am done now that I found these units. They are MUCH easier to maintain than the types with pads.

I have lots of gold fish in my pond and I leave them in the pond year round and they do fine. And I live in North Dakota.

Have fun.

Hi pondbucket5 - I plan to put in some goldfish and smaller fish, but probably not koi because I want many plants as well.

Yep - Lucky is a German Shepherd Dog, about 6 years old. I'm sure she will love the pond though I don't really want her in it. Her nails would not be good for the liner!

I'm fine with leaving the rocks in, they'll provide some shelf space if nothing else. It would take some large equipment to get them out anyway.

The bottom drain thing sounds cool. I'm a little queasy about cutting a hole in the liner though, it would have to be the exact right size and in the exact right place to not have a leak.

Do not be afraid to cut the liner. It is amazingly easy to do. Just set the drain according to the link I gave you first. Get it in the right place, set in a bed of concrete with the face of the flange even with the floor of the pond. then lay in the liner. Get the liner all set out where you want it to be. THEN cut the first hole in the liner, right over the drain. I always cut the hole a little smaller first...you only need enough room to get your hand and a caulk gun between the flange and the liner. Apply a liberal amount of silicone. Then attach the top flange with the stainless screws provided. Once everything dries for a day or so, you can finish cutting out the excess liner from the inside of the hole. I have installed 7 or 8 drains and never once had a leak.

I would give some serious thought to getting those rocks out. You are going to have a very difficult time smoothing the liner over them. You will have large pleats and wrinkles which will be very hard to keep clean. Plus you are using a lot of volume. Why not rent a jack hammer? Or even use a hammer drill to break them up. They are limestone, right? They should break up pretty easy.