@happyrad...I am considering the kitchenmaid 42 inch french door which is very similar to your Jennair. Are the doors soft close as well, or is it just the drawers inside the fridge?

Goodyear- if you're going to tout facts, then you should make sure you have them correct.

Besides the one already pointed out:

Sub Zero does get vended parts. They don't make compressors, and they sure as heck aren't in the copper tubing or electronics manuf. business. I also believe that their compressors are imported .

Miele fridges aren't made in a Thermador plant. They're produced in a plant conceived, built, and marqueed by Bosch - which does own thermador.

SZ warranty isn't the best either. That belongs to Gaggenau fridges that have a 5 yr. parts AND labor coverage as well as 12 yr sealed system coverage for parts. If you buy multiple appliances from them that parts and labor coverage can go to 10 years ! Easily besting anyone's warranty coverage now.

SZ fridges are sometimes less $$$ than competitors too.

This is an interesting read and become more interesting with the additional messages. Especially with regard to Sub-0 re-evaluating their customer base. The reason I was in the market for the 700TCI simply was because of previous experience in another home. So I was "pre" sold. How much better of a customer can you get? Isn't this what businesses want--loyalty? How many opportunities do these companies think they're entitled to? Anyway; in 2001 that exact refrigerator was just about $4500. I was not especially in love with the functionality of the unit, but it is a compromise due toits compact dimensions and my desire for a completely integrated unit.

Fast forward 12 years to another home and a remodel project only to learn that the 700TCI was just discontinued and was replaced with a 30" wide unit at a considerable price increase. We could have come up with the cash to pay the difference, however, as stated above, the value proposition (to us) just wasn't good enough. My previous Sub-0 required compressor, fan and ice maker repairs. The technician dispatched from the dealer informed the parts are similar to those used on other refrigerators. So I'm not so sure that Sub-0 has exclusivity with every component in their product as stated up-thread. Anyway, my preference would have been to get another Sub-0, but the Monogram has been a pleasant surprise and GE is o.k. in my book. Being completely paneled and flush fitting; no one knows it's a GE and I'm not so sure that anyone who visits or potential purchaser of this home would even care. Bottom-line (oversimplification) my husbands beer is just as cold in the Monogram as it was in the Sub-0 and as it was in the ordinary Kenmore we had many years ago. Folks it's only a refrigerator!!

I have been happy with my 48" KA. When I bought it there wasn't that much difference in the price between it and SZ but I liked the layout better. It has worked perfectly for eight years. My Wolf DF range only lasted 4.5 years before the oven became unusable due to the enamel chipping and Wolf won't even tell me how much to fix it and the part is only guaranteed for a year if repaired. This also being a known Wolf issue.

I wanted to stay away from SubZero when looking for my first refrigerator, then I saw the Pro-48 and fell in love....

It may not have all the latest LED lighting, et al, but that is one bad-azz refrigerator!

I was looking for information on the new counter top appliances. Are there any reviews out? Can the Wolf (Hamilton) blender compete with Vitamix?

Update: youtube unboxing video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e08l_YkwiUE

Hard to say...it looks like Wolf paid hamilton beach to make a vitamix knockoff. Unless you are buying a wolf range or cooktop/oven, you will not get one for free. If you are going to buy it, I would highly recommend a vitamix or blendtec over this.

"dawgneck

I wanted to stay away from SubZero when looking for my first refrigerator, then I saw the Pro-48 and fell in love...."

I did not like that it had a food bin with a open grate bottom directly over the ice bin. I could imagine the debris dropping through.

Brad Goodyear, In reading your post(s) you sound like an employee of SZ/Wolf. Is this true? And with less humility you would've seen the rebate (or any incentive program) is not "per the store". The cash incentive still lives in Canada thru the end of the year but us american's are now stuck with a points program. (can you provide any useful reason why someone elses re-badged appliances are better?) And how exactly is this (promotion) like a repeat buyer at a consumer goods stores like...grocery store, clothing store etc... More importantly was this the same marketing guy that dreamed up "New Coke"? Your post also over indulges on some other facts. SZ are assembled in U.S.A. Many of the parts, including the actual boxes I'm told, are made from other companies. SZ doesn't make circuit boards, copper tubing, compressor's. Lastly, I impressed by your devotion but it really sounds like its coming from someone that gets paid to say those things. As usual (with these things) you do note cite whether or not you have a conflict of interest. At a minimum, I'm sure most here would agree your just shilling for SZ. These issue's (pricing/incentives) play out over a long period of time. But I do perceive this current USA promotion as a stumble. (The two retailers I've talked to think its a joke with a red knob:0)

SZ assembles their own boxes Pat.

Think it's pretty clear Brad works for or is an appliance dealer.

Years back SZ stayed out of the "promotion" business and instructed their reps to downplay Thermadors free dishwasher program as pure hype - our stuff is so much better we don't need to offer incentives.

At the time I admired them for taking the high road and competing on merit/ value, not games.

Now, they've entered the frequent flyer arena and have even stooped to offering cupie dolls as an enticement to buy a $10,000 appliance ? Your marketing people are leading you down a dangerous road SZ !

Maybe it's because they realized their stuff isn't so much better they can just ignore those games from the competition. Still though, I would take a Bosch made dishwasher over a crappy toaster oven with red knobs any day.

@Pat Donnelly, Hi and no i do not work for SZ i simply wanted to point out a few things and yes i most definitely over exaggerated some items "sorry about that" as to push the fact they don't make the packing boxes really? Compressors or copper tubing... obviously I struck a nerve in a few people and have them now looking more deeper... that was my intent here. All brands are good, i take exception to people talking down the creator of the builtin market and thinking that SZ was just another built in sorry about that. Buy what you wish all brands are good just some have better breeding.

What started me on this thread was simply the fact that a brand was not being considered unless they incentivized the product.

I just want to frivolously note that I saw the red knob toaster a couple of weeks ago, and if I had a red knob range I would not have been able to resist its cuteness. If SZ/Wolf made a toaster with a bar handle like a refrigerator door, I will be like a mesmerized lamb heading to slaughter.

On a barely sober note, what does my SZ 632 bring to the, er, table besides substantial mass: American made, independent cooling sections, high compressor placement, reasonable quiet, people who answer the phone. Probably other subtle benefits. My kitchen reno cost so much money beyond any initial plan that I could have imagined that the SZ incremental cost over other company's products was unnoticeable. I consider it perfectly valid, now that the SZ prices have moved upward as expected with FED monetization on a near-galactic scale, for others to decide: why not buy something else at half price and replace after 5 years. It depends I think on how critical the installation is to replacement with something else. I doubt that I can easily (read without $1000s of cabinetry cost) replace the 632 with something else.

kas

Brad, good comments and very sincere. I wasn't speaking about the packing boxes. Apologies for the confusion. Was speaking about the actual freezer/fridge chest or cavities. I had heard these were made by someone else. Would seem to make sense for economies of scale. But nonetheless if the brand can stand on its own, even with frothy pricing, why the gimmickry promotion? Just pass on the discount and be done with it. IMHO

Pat , they make both . So you heard wrong.

They don't make the cardboard that they use to assemble the packing boxes - so there is that .

Kas- you'll have a fair amt. of fridges from which to choose if you want to replace that 632. The built is size is pretty standard at width x 84". In your case 48" x 84" tall.

In that size, models can be had from GE, thermador, dacor, kitchenaid, viking, marvel/northland , and even the Koreans have entered the fray with units from LG and Samsung.

I don't think most people care who makes the various bits. What they care about is the brand/prestige reputation, the quality of the fridge, getting the look they want. Some will buy with incentives; others won't.

Last Fall, I was in the unenviable position of replacing a BI fridge. I had replaced the furnace earlier in the year and the fridge cost more than the furnace. I knew SZ was top of the line both in reputation/service, build quality and price. When looking at a SZ, there were no baubles. It was nearly $1500 more than any other brand so a dopey toaster would not have made any difference. For me, the decision ultimately turned on features, build quality and excellence of service.

Both the doors and the grill space have Tedd Wood red birch cabinet overlays. To not have to buy those over again, the replacement unit would need to duplicate a number of dimensions, along with the compressor location.

kas

Well Kas, no one said anything about cabinetry panels.

You won't have any choice if you want to re use those. Even sub zero's replacement for the 632 ( BI 42 ) uses different panel sizes now. You'll just have to repair it if you can when the time comes.

My point was , that built ins do have a standard size if you are looking at stainless models. So, a 42" Viking would fit into the space that a 42" Dacor does.

Thanks for your remarks, malba2366, wekick, charon70 and Kaseki.

I remodeled the kitchen just before Thanksgiving and installed the newest Wolf oven, range and the Sub-Zero Pro-48 refrigerator. This was during the old promotion when you got a cash savings.... After the savings, the price difference between the Wolf/Subzero package and our other choices wasn't that bad, so the extra money we spent didn't hurt as much. We purchased the items based on the looks and how they integrated into the new kitchen design.

I received an email from my sales rep two months ago, stating he would have the new counter top appliances soon. I was about to purchase a Vitamix 750 and replace our old toaster, so I decided to wait until the Wolf items were released to compare them against the items I looked at.

As kaseki stated, the Wolf counter top appliances look "cute" and would match the kitchen and other items well, but if they truly are built cheaply and don't perform on the same level of the competition, I'm not touching them.

@wekick - I noticed the slots in the ice bin drawer prior to purchasing the unit and had the same concerns. I soon noticed the slots are in front of the ice bucket, so nothing should fall into it from above (hasn't yet). The bottom/front of the ice bucket drawer has the same slots as the drawer above.... Must be for air circulation or something.

@dawgneck. Go for the vitamix 750...wonderful blender!! For a toaster check out Breville...I have their toaster oven and toaster; both are wonderful. I was looking at the Wolf kitchen top appliances and saw that the suggested price of the toaster is $500...if that is really what they are selling it for that is outrageous!

"Dawgneck

wekick - I noticed the slots in the ice bin drawer prior to purchasing the unit and had the same concerns. I soon noticed the slots are in front of the ice bucket, so nothing should fall into it from above (hasn't yet). The bottom/front of the ice bucket drawer has the same slots as the drawer above.... Must be for air circulation or something."

They must have changed it since I looked at it. They were over the ice bucket.

$500? !!!! If I knew that when I saw it my resistance level would have sky-rocketed. I could have almost as much cuteness with a photograph of one. :)

kas

Lol!! @Kas.....The prices are even more ridiculous when you consider they are rebranded Hamilton Beach appliances.

Thanks, malba2366.

My curiosity is satisfied - No need to waste any time driving to the dealer....

I'm getting the Vitamix and will take a look at the Breville toaster.

Thanks again, everyone.

I love my sub-zero! I just got it, and no more freezing veggies like my old Viking! It's a beautiful and quiet refrigerator/ freezer.. I got the one with the french doors on top, and I love it for the most part, but the deli door requires both doors be open, which is a miss-design, and the left door doesn't always close properly. But it's still a wonderful machine! I was going to buy a Miele but they didn't make them in the right size (42"). I did buy a Miele range and it has been a bit of a hassle. Long story short, it will be almost a month later for me to get a fully functioning range, if the service people can fix what's broke (it arrived broke-- they fixed it, but then the knob broke after one use for the stove). What's really broken with Miele is service in the Bay Area (booking 3 weeks out). But back to my SZ, I do happy dance every time I think about it. For me it is the refrigerator to buy. I am sure that in other sizes there are other more affordable options, and likely just as good. But I love my sub zero! Fresh veggies for weeks!

LOVE LOVE LOVE my Sub-Zero French door refrigerator! We have had it for a year and a half now. Even my husband who initially balked at spending $10K on a fridge is a believer. Not only do perishables stay fresh longer but what won us over was when we had a power outage for 3 days...the ice in the icemaker in the SZ did not even melt! The seals on this fridge are super tight. The other two refrigerators we have elsewhere in the house do not even come close. Hands down one of the best appliance we have ever had!

Even if we posit for argument purposes that SZ refrigerator/freezers were the best that are made (I have an SZ 632 and like it), and that SZ had the best service support on the planet, a $10k prestige SZ price compared with, say, a prestige German automobile price still makes one wonder about SZ price realism when comparing the relative levels of technology development costs, raw materials costs, parts fabrication man-hours, assembly man-hours, paid vacation time, transport costs, and taxes. And all the prestige vehicles have at least one refrigeration loop included in their price.

I suggest that either SZ has a less efficient production process or the prestige mark-up is excessive. This doesn't matter for customers for whom cost is no object, but on the margin, it affects SZ sales against manufacturers such as Miele as described in this very thread.

kas

"Right On", Kas!

As I posted, many moons ago, take 2 tables (Big Ones), take a fairly new car ($10K), disassemble it, and put the parts on one table, take a new $10k SZ fridge, disassemble it and put the parts on the other table.

Compare the parts, like the cmptrs from the SZ versus the car, The SZ cmptr is a toy compared to those in the car. Next compare the seals, many more in the car and better quality and installed better.

As if that wasn't enough, now SZ has a $20,000 Fridge, it has a glass door, must be some awfully fancy glass??????

As I also said, it's your money spend it as you want. The only problem is other companies, Miele, Jenn Air, etc watch what happens when SZ runs a $10k flag up a pole, and it's not long after, that they too have a $10K flag, and most likely a $20K flag is not far behind, but I warned of this probably close to 10 years ago now.

My 48" bulit in, Jenn-air fridge, being a perfect example. Bought it back in 2006, for $4588.00, (List was around $6600.00) but it was not price fixed. Now they are, and a built in and paneled JA fridge will run you over 8 grand now, and like SZ used to do, they don't even show the price on their website, "Call our dealers for a price". "To me" that's "scumbag marketing". At least SZ quit doing that.

As far as the SZ fridge being "special" or keeping food longer, I say "Hoss feathers" to that. In the almost 10 years we've had the fridge, I can't recall throwing a single thing out, it will keep stuff a lot longer than the USDA recommends, and for that matter, so will a lot of other fridges.

I hope my JA lasts forever as it has features that no SZ ever had, or for that matter, even the new JA fridges. Crank up and down shelves, luv those, digitally controlled meat compartment and veggie compartment, that can be set for a lower temp than main fridge, IE meat 32F, Veggies 34F , main fridge 38F, now try that with your SZ! The JA also has built in diagnostics that even measure the speed of the fans, measures all the sensors, checks the compressor, etc etc. These are the kinds of things I expect to see in a $10K ,fridge, not just an SZ label.

I have nothing personally against SZ, but I think their marketing tactics have caused many folks to pay a lot more for a "High End Fridge" than they needed to. Yea I know, they can buy the "Non high end stuff" or whatever you want to call it, but many of us like the "Nicer appliances", and we bought them, and the purpose of my post is to hopefully discourage other companies from following SZ's marketing tactics, alto I must admit, "such tactics" have not worked, so far!

At least SZ is a US company, The Euros', especially the German Companies are really Ripping us off now. The Dollar has risen "Mightily" against the Euro & other European Currencies, but has the price of a Gaggenau, Miele etc etc dropped even a penny????? I recalls when Gagg increased prices over 30% due to a weak dollar (or "currency evaluation") as one poster put it, WELL how bout a currency evaluation that gives us hard working Yanks a break!!!!!!

Gary

One refinement Gary; rip-off factors notwithstanding, when comparing product pricing as a function of relative dollar vs. euro FX ratios, one has to consider how raw material and component prices change when valued in euros. For a simple example, when the ratio of euro value to dollar value drops, all that happens to the price of gold is that it costs more in euros. The only drop we should expect to get in European appliance cost is European value-added labor costs which will lag euro depreciation. Semiconductors from Japan might cost Europe more unless the Japanese to US FX rate also drops (more yen per dollar) along with the euro to dollar rate.

Central bank meddling world-wide has so distorted price discovery of everything, while degrading price stability, that a corporation might be excused for adding a significant risk buffer to its appliance pricing. This doesn't get us to $20k, however, unless some of that gold is involved.

I believe the US aspect to be an important one, given all the hidden financial costs, and not so hidden social costs we are paying for moving production off shore.

kas

1st, SZ does not have a $20k fridge. Retail on that 800+ lb. 48" monster is $16.5k and after everyone gets their 10% "discount" it's just under $15k.

So let's not go overboard with the angst.

2nd , there is profit and markup and prestige fee rolled into those prices. Get over it. Just like there's a gas guzzler tax on some cars and other luxury taxes - you have the choice not to pay those if you desire. SZ does not control the market for fridges or even luxury fridges. You're free to buy what ever suits your fancy. I own a foreign built SUV on which there is a five figure import tax to help save American jobs presumably . It's just part of the cost of ownership and it's not readily disclosed so most don't worry about it - just like profit and markup.

You folks make eloquent consumer pleas about something that has no real importance in the grand scheme of things. Why do you care how much markup or profit SZ has in one of their fridges ??? Why should they care that you think they have too much ?

Do you have your suits made in Saville row or your dresses made in Faubourg/St. Honore ? What do you think their markup is ? Do you think they care what you think about it or care if you're even a client ???

Not one bit. Yet there are not chat rooms filled with folks complaining that the stuff from there is too expensive .

Just what kinda car can one get for $10,000 ??? Where is it made, and where are the parts for it made ? Certainly y'all aren't so dense as to think that a car made in a third world or emerging country with subsistence labor and questionable ching chong chang materials has the same cost structure as does Northern USA Union labor and American quality stainless steel and electronics ?

Don't you also think that bicycle morphed moped come car maker would charge an additional 25% markup if they could get it ??? But, they cant cause no ones' heard of them and everyone knows that a quality car can't be manufactured for $10k. Look at Hyundai. 25 yrs. ago they almost pulled outa the U.S. market cause their cars were absolute crapola, but now they command $70,000 + for their flagship car made alongside their $20,000 entry model. Think there's a luxury markup in those ???

And since Gaggenau and Miele are made by the same Turkish labor force and cost roughly the same as a SZ with USA Union wages - which do you think has the greatest profit for their manufacturers ??? Additionally , SZ is closely held and has only to make a few people rich while Gaggenau has to meet millions of shareholders profit motives ; which do you think has the greatest markup built in to meet those goals ???

Note Xedos, that I said a "fairly new car", I know you can't buy a new car for $10K.

I do agree with you about the profit margins Europe models vs USA models, especially taking the now STRONG Dollar into account.

As I've stated many times, my main gripe with SZ is they set a trend for high prices, other follow them, as the example I gave with Jenn-air. Even though the new JA Fridges don't have all the features that mine has, they are almost double the price, they are price fixed as the SZ's are and as I mentioned they don't even give prices on their web-site, at least SZ does now .

I guess when you get my age, paying for "Prestige" has "Zippo importance!". Seeing another Sunrise with my loved ones is far more important.

I just want to see the younger folks get the same breaks I did. Appliance prices based on competition, NOT price fixed, or Prestige value or what have you!

If SZ is so good, then why cant they just compete on their own, without all the price fixing, the slick marketing schemes, etc.

Many, if not most of us, here in Houzz buy the best appliance to do the job, or at least we say we do. We are constantly recommending against buying "Package Deals", (all appliances by the same manufacturer). So we throw out all our research we did before making a purchasing to purchase "Prestige"?

I do know where you are coming from though, as I had a Dear late friend, who had Champagne tastes but a Beer budget. He almost begged me to buy the SZ fridge as he knew we had a pretty good supply of Champagne. But I did my research back in 2006 including, but not only Consumer Reports. You may recall that SZ had a copper problem back then, and they were rated dead last for reliability, whilst Jenn-air was rated #1, I'm afraid had I gotten bit by the "Prestige Bug" or listened to my late friend, I would have gotten to know the guys at SZ service very well, and that was never one of my goals either.

Gary

Sorry Gary , I missed the slightly qualifier. Even so, your arguemenet isn't rational. You'd have to compare that slight new car of yours with a slightly new SZ too, and that ain't gonna cost you $15k. One's on Craigslist for $700 in my backyard.

SZ and others do compete on their own in the free market. They set the price for what they make and the market chooses to to sell it or not sell it, and buyers choose to buy it or don't.

Does your doctor let you or his colleagues set his hourly rate ? Nope. He charges what he needs to cover overhead , service his chosen lifestyle and make a profit. If he's not booked with patients he may consider lowering his rates just as SZ may consider that if they don't sell enough fridges. But neither lets customers directly have a say I get pricing structure.

You want to get riled by pricing obfuscation ? Look at the auto industry, you think there's competition driving pricing down at the local level but the manufacturers set the car prices at the end of the day just like fridge manuf. do. Now, some allow their dealers to charge whatever they want , even less than the cost of the car because of the way some manufacturers administer wholesale pricing - but certainly you're not advocating that sales model for the appliance business are you ? And do you think Caddy looks at what Benz and BMW and Lexus are charging for similar vehicles when arriving at msrp for their cars ?

Your Jenn Air is a perfect example, they were lower priced than their competition back then, and you got a crazy Eddie stoopid deal on yours, and now they have aligned themselves with the competition. That's the way of the market - see my Hyundai ref above.

Back then JA was just starting to rebrand themselves out of the kitchenaid mid level appliance range , so they needed a come on . You can't just wake up one day and say " we're here and as good as SZ and are going to charge the same price". Doesn't work for an upstart in a new segment. But, after you get some traction and distance yourself from the old perception - you can raise prices. JA wanted to be in the premimum game not for vanity but for profit. You can't do that by charging significantly less that your competition unless you're running a charity and don't mind loosing money.

I think your gesture of wanting younger generations to have advantages nobel. I think they can go through same evolution that we did and use their talent and guile to carve out a place in this world like we did . And if they want Jimmy Choos or Xboxes or Teslas or Sub Zeros, they can figure out how to earn enough coin to afford those. Or learn to live without them just like the majority of people do .

The manufacturers , nor the marketplace owes them an advantaged position in affording those items. It really boils down to a fundamentally simple concept that many never grasp: WANT Less - or - EARN More.

$1500 worth of service in seven years, that sounds like a bargain? I have never had to have a fridge serviced. (of course, I do whatever maintenance is required) This is the part that I do not understand, the new normal is that appliances breakdown in a relatively short period of time, they are not made to last a lifetime if we are lucky, they are made to last at least 10 years. The cost to repair is often astronomical and so we end up having to buy a new appliance. It is stunningly wasteful of the earth's resources not to mention of our dollars.

Gal - you can't have it both ways. If you want to conserve natural resources you have to pay sometimes.

I do realize the irony that paying to conserve opens up. Labor cost is what throws the wrench in things. If you had the talent and time to DIY your SZ repair the cost would look like a bargain. But that fridge tech and his masters need to feed the kids and get them braces and they also like to take a beach vacation just as much as you or I.

The analogy with the medical profession isn't true, unless you're talking about cosmetic procedures. Our rates for Medicare patients are set by the government and other insurance companies base their rates as a % of that, usually less than 100%. We can't even raise our rates to offset inflation. The only way we can survive these days is by being very efficient.

No babrams, I'm not talking about obamacare employees. That isn't the free market at all. I'm sorry that's your predicament too.

I'm talking about those doctors that set their price based on what they think it should be. You can choose to see them or not and your insurer can pay what they are asking or a portion or none at all. That happened to me just today. I was outa pocket nearly $300 because insurance covered basically nothing. Nor were they telling this doctor what he could charge me even before they decided not to pay anything.

The fact remains that you don't get a say in the price the doctor is charging . Your insurer set's what they will pay for a certain code , but you don't . The doctor can choose to accept that as full payment or not. Just so y'all realize how little control you have - you don't even get a say in what you'll pay your insurance company either. They set your premiums and it includes a sizable profit for shareholder as well as hefty compensation for the management. So again, the customer is not directly influencing the price. Only if a large number stop buying a product or using a service will providers change. With the case of insurance - most people have no choice despite what leaders would have you believe.

Another ins/ free market thing I found interesting was when my spouse had some testing done last year. We got a bill that had three prices. Cash today was $1000, Ins. filing with a modest co pay and credit towards yearly deductible was $2500, and a no money down insurance takes care of the bill was $5000 no deductible credit which sounds good if you've met the deductible threshold - otherwise you owe the whole $5000 which amounts to simply a bill pay service with rates steeper than Vinny the Loan Shark.

Furthermore - if you guys think America is gong to remain at the top of the medical care heap, that we've enjoyed for so long, with some bureaucratic bean counter or politico setting prices from afar for the whole country - you are in for a very rude awakening. The best and brightest have already left the insurance reimbursement model or the profession. The newest crop of med students aren't lining up to work as GP wage slaves for the govnt. either. Which.........................................is going to lead to the Harley Street model in which the 1%ers get whatever they want and are willing to pay for with the prices set by.................wait for it....................THE DOCTORS ! This further cements my earn more if you want more position.


Diatribe aside - point I'm trying to get across is that the marketplace doesn't owe you a discount or even access simply because you're an American.

This office interposes no objection to your diatribe.

Tricia, keep in mind that there can be a big difference between the marketing department and the manufacturing. I agree about the poor quality of the promotion, but if the company makes the items you want, it's better to just tune out the extraneous stuff.

Agreed. It's complete BS. Who wants little trinkets over a real discount on super expensive appliances? I'm pricing out appliances now and the dealers are trying to sell me this points program like it's some great deal.

I'd rather they just provide a discount if you buy more than one appliance. Appliancejunkie commented earlier that "One thing i can assure you is that a Subzero is not for everybody as much as Subzero would like you too own one".

I can assure you the SZ is not for me, nor the Miele or any of those tall units. We bought a Samsung 4-door fridge with LED lights. So far it's great. Why the SZ or a Miele fridge isn't for me? I opened the door at the showroom and found that anything on the top shelf or door bin was inaccessible to me, as I'm 5'0". Apparently those Europeans are a lot taller than Orientals. Totally useless space for me, so we saved several thousand by getting the Samsung.

Okay, but you have to look at it from their point of view. I highly doubt someone was sitting around saying, "How can we give our customers a discount," to come up with this. They could possibly have been looking for incentives and inducements, but this reeks of the maker of those gizmos coming to them and selling them on this program, rather than vice versa. Probably made it sound good with buzz like brand expansion, licensing revenue, etc., etc. It's idiotic, and, as has been said, cheapens their image, but the telling point will be when three years have passed, and if it continues.

Divotdiva2, good point about the height. I'm 2/3 of a foot taller than you and love the height of my Miele because it is so tall. I have the top shelf very high since the fridge is cold at the top, and put cartons of soft cheese, yoghurt, etc. up there. It's not a kid friendly height, though, nor 5' friendly either. :) SZ has an alternative in the older style compressor on top models. The interior isn't so tall.

Larissa, you make good points. I think it's also great that you're using the SZ promotion as a thank-you rather than an incentive. Many dealers are doing the latter, and that's where the comments about cheapening the brand come in. The salesman says, "Look, you can get this free SZ branded blender (or whatever)" and it's a cheap, inferior product. As a thank-you freebie, after the fact, it looks a lot better.

In the context of incentives, however, what people are saying is that they'd rather have a cash rebate (i.e., discount) rather than have SubZero spend the money on the promotional items that they don't even want. It's not so much that they think the company ought to offer discounts, but that they'd rather have the money than some junky gizmo. And, of course, the difference is what SZ pays for the incentive program, vs. what the touted worth of the items is. They can give you a lot more "gift" than their actual payout. Which is why they do it.

Update... I think to many people are putting way to much thought here into an expected discount. This is not a product that has to be discounted to compete as a matter of fact most people are not expected to be able to afford SZ or Wolf or Miele for that matter. In comparison do you stalk the Fendi and Mercedes and McLaren forums saying that a car should not be more than a million dollars with out some form of a rebate?

wanted to add my 2cents here. we purchased our sub z wolf appliances last year after the cash rebate program was finished but haven't yet redeemed our points. well i just went to check the website and they now offer 1k cash back in lieu of the countertop electrics/knives/pots and pans but it doesn't apply to me since i purchased last year. give me a break sub z!

Ask for it anyway. Tell them how disappointed you were with the choices so you hadn't used your points. Be really nice but persistent. You never know until you ask...

Just as an added note, we were going back and forth between BlueStar and Wolf and we were shown the appliances as a GWP of sorts. It did not affect our decision at all, we went with BlueStar in the end, and I feel like when you are spending that much money on such an appliance(s) a toaster should not factor in. But of course that is just my opinion. Now for the side note...we did purchase the Wolf countertop oven a little while back and paid full price of course. Our reason for the purchase was because of its size and some of the features (I can fit a full 9x13 dish inside and I love the convection and temperature probe for example). Yes, we looked at Breville and some others but the Wolf is larger and that was what I needed. I did not care that it was a rebranded Hamilton Beach as some have said, it is backed by Wolf and I hope that they will stand by the product as it does have their name on it. Reviews that I have read are excellent also. Anyway, just wanted to mention that in case anyone was interested!

Mandy_elaine, that is just what we advocate here above all: get the product that's best suited to you.