Your post is too rambling, lacking specific questions. Formulate specific questions, and add a layout of the space if you want specific responses. Otherwise, hire a pro for a couple of hours to get you started.

20K is doable for a kitchen redo, if you have the correct expectations for what that will purchase. That is the budget realm for average expenditures on cabinets alone though, so you have to define for yourself what features you need, vs want. There's nothing wrong with laminate counters and oak cabinets, if that's what your budget will buy. But if that's not your Houzz inspired expectations, you need to realign those expectations. Houzz is full of 200K kitchens that inspire many to unrealistic conversations with contractors.

I am far from an expert, but I will tell you what I think I know from my experience, and also what I have read here.

Also, since it is a holiday weekend, people are less likely to be on the board -- be patient!

I would first decide if I wanted frameless or framed. Once I settled on frameless, my choices narrowed considerably. The increased accessibility of frameless sold me, and there is no compromise on quality by choosing frameless. Framed gives you lots more options as to manufacturer and perhaps door style -- but if you want shaker full overlay, no worries.

Also, consider that in a row of cabinets, each cabinet side will be lending strength to its neighbor. This is a point is favor of using MDF or OSB for adjacent, non-exposed sides.

I believe that I have seen references to "furniture grade" materials as best choice for MDF and plywood. Frankly I am not aware of the differences and don't know what "industrial grade" would mean, if that is a plus or a minus. Scherr's is a well thought of manufacturer, though, and I would ask them what the differences are.

Solid wood doors can and do warp. Many sources state that quality MDF is more stable for door panels.

I believe that in the price range you are looking at (medium quality), dovetails in drawers and high quality glides are easily obtained. Ikea would be the exception re dovetailed drawers, but they are using Blum drawers which are put together differently than all-wood drawers and by all accounts the cabinets are very durable. Depending on the manufacturer and your price range, I think that I would opt for better glides before dovetails in the cabinet box construction.

Maple is a popular choice for exteriors, that is what I have in my painted cabinets. Birch is also a common material.

I would price out both Barker and Conestoga (via The Cabinet Joint or Cabinet Authority) if you want frameless; easy to do online at their websites.

I found this webpage that might help a little: http://www.home-style-choices.com/kitchen-cabinet-construction.html. There is also a company with informative pages that posts here but I can't find it right now.

Sophie - I didn't even mention countertops, did I? Or inspiration photos from anywhere. I'm mostly asking about cabinet brands. That's it.

raee_gw - thanks for your reply, that's very helpful!

Jennifer, I know how you are feeling; I was in the same place 2 years ago. I didn't know, what I didn't know and felt so overwhelmed with all the choices.

Spent a lot of time with KD's; learned far more reading posts on GW. How do you want to approach this - learn everything you can or find someone you like and let them make recommendations? I am the learn everything you can type of person. So I spent a lot of time at KD shops and big box stores. My 2 finalists were Medallion and Shiloh, I thought they were the greatest mid-range value (not the least expensive but gave you the most for the $$$).

Do you want painted or stained? Frameless, full, or partial overlay? Where are you located, maybe a GW'er can recommend someone near you?

''Decent quality'' is a subjective term. You can get white shaker at all price levels, and most will pass KCMA testing, even the 3/8" furniture board constructed ones with epoxy side mount drawer glides. Yes, that's on the lower end construction wise. Your budget determines quality, and with a 20K budget, you need to bring some extensive DIY skills to the table in order to afford the cabinets that you are hinting that you want.

You really need to do more research. As in go talk to local pros in person. Sophie/Holly has been on these forums for around 20 years and is a respected retired designer. You'd do well to listen to her cautions about having your inspirations being appropriate to your budget.

I mean no disrespect at all. Truly. I merely am just trying to understand the terminology of cabinets and what features are important to look for and what makes various brands distinctive. Again, this has nothing to do with inspiration or getting even a certain look or a "showroom" kitchen. I don't know why that keeps coming up. Maybe there's an assumption here that everyone's "idea book" is exactly what they want? Inspiration photos for me are just ideas. I'm under no assumption that I will ever have a kitchen worthy of houzz photo galleries, but ultimately, that's not even what my original post was about. It was about being confused about cabinets and wanting a little help.

Frankly, when you start reading through here, there are a bajillion posts about SO many different cabinet brands and types. While I'd love to go to a showroom or talk with a KD, we are in a small town an hour away from a small city. We have no designers in my town. None. No showrooms. And at this point, I don't have the ability to drive an hour+ to go through showrooms to window-shop cabinets. Eventually, we will likely get to that point. But really, I'm just trying to understand cabinet features and terminology. Sorry that wasn't clear in my original post. I do tend to ramble when I'm confused :)

I wish I could be more helpful, but I'm not an expert at all. I did find this Fine Homebuilding article that might be of some help.

I understand where you're coming from, Jennifer. It's frustrating when you don't know enough about what you don't know so you can't even ask a specific question. I suggest spending some time reading through old posts here. I've learned a lot doing that. Also, you might go to the library and get some books on kitchen design. Also, this website is a wealth of information: Starcraft's kitchen articles Just read through them and learn.

None of this will tell you what cabinet brands to buy or rate them from top quality to low but this will help you learn the important things to be looking for, how to assess things to determine what is most important to you, or, at the very least, give you enough information so you can ask more specific questions so that you can get the types of answers you need.

My finalists were also the same as mdln.

It is so confusing. The 'free' upgrades, the construction, it is not a straight forward comparison that's for sure - then add the KD design offering on top and honestly I think that may be the most important part! Oh and add in the hubby's opinions and you have quite the challenge. Ha!

So if you aren't close enough to browse and get a feel for the KD's in the area right now, I'd make a list of things that are important to you and do some research online even on brands and dimensions, how custom and what upcharges they have. Try to start getting quotes - rough quotes. Fairly generic so as to not waste a KD's time but to get a general jumping off point - with your kitchen size. What I did was have several people quote my kitchen with what I WANTED - all drawers, 1 4-drawer stack, soft close, painted. Then I knew what the baseline was for me, if it was within range and if not how much I'd have to give up to get in budget. In that exercise I found a lot of differences in cabinets and in what their 'standard' and 'upgraded' features were. I knew from reading here that even the dimensions of 'standard' cabinets
were not the same from brand to brand. Is nothing universal??? So I
made sure to inquire about the top drawer and it's usable height, some
are pretty shallow and that was important to me.

So - I knew I wanted all drawers except for the sink base. One KD quoted hardly any drawers. Okay - not a very good listener, I was clear on that. It went downhill from there as he continued to tell me what I wanted and that he makes the design and then I just make my stuff fit his design and I RAN from that one. Once you get a feel for what your space will cost with a baseline then you can kind of wittle it down from there and a good KD can help you with design and the importance of this or that if (okay WHEN) you have to start making concessions or maybe you'll find you can add some things. Wouldn't that be FUN!

I ended up with 2 places on the short list (I had about 5 quotes and the others it was more my comfort with the KD than the cabinet line). The KD's made sense to me and either would have done a great job. Both lines had different things they offered. Both had great ideas and took their time. It came down to paint color. I didn't want to pay an upcharge for custom paint so I had to choose between their white offerings and that was the clincher.

Keep reading and writing down what is something you'd like and what you feel you must have in your kitchen. It's so daunting, you aren't alone there and you will arrive on the other side eventually. Good Luck!

Here is a link to a prior thread that might be helpful: Relative Cabinet Prices brand vs brand

Agree, Starcrafts site is an outstanding source of information. Suggest to keep reading, take notes, then post specific questions you can't find the answers to or continue to be confused about.

Thank you for the starcraft link - that is SO helpful!!!

I understand you are in a rural area. You don't have a HD or Lowes? They both offer several cabinets line to take a look at. If not, thats fine but I would plan a day trip to the city and go window shopping. For me I actually need to see and feel the cabinets. Open and close doors/ drawers, etc. I think Starcrafts articles are great! Decent quality as already been said is very subjective. I have a brand of cabinets in our bathroom that many here think have very poor quality. We love them and have no issues with the quality.

Another suggestion is to work on the layout and get that 99% finalized then see what that will cost with different brands. Its very hard to determine the "value" of different cabinets when you are not comparing apples to apples. I would not get hung up on "solid wood".

Thanks debrak_2008! We do not have a HD or Lowes. We just have a small local lumberyard and Ace hardware :) The nearest HD/Lowes/Menards is an hour away. Eventually, we'll go window shop. My husband will need the visual to get a better idea of things.

Perhaps instead of decent quality I should say something different. I think longevity & durability are most important. We are a young family hoping not to move for a long time. We need something that can withstand at least a bit of abusive from young children and less-than-tidy cooks. When we redo our kitchen, we don't want to do it again in 10 years, if you know what I mean. We'd like them to last. So if that means getting certain types of boxes or doors or drawer boxes, I guess I'd like to know what other people would suggest. I'm all for saving on $ for this, but not if it means we're doing it at the cost of future issues and problems like something is broken or warped or whatever.

Hi Jennifer,

If you don't have a home center near you and you are on a budget I would buy cabinets from Cliq Studios:

http://cliqstudios.com/

The cabinetry is all plywood construction, solid wood dovetail full extension soft close drawers 1/2 " plywood sides and Ibeam construction. They have kitchen designers on staff that can help you remotely. Their painted white shaker door is very nice and they ship everywhere in the USA. They are framed cabinets which I consider superior to frameless cabinetry in durability and in the ease of installation.

Any American made midgrade and up will give you good quality. Avoid imports or lines that make you upgrade everything to get to where other lines start as standard. It's a wide playing field, and there are a lot of right choices.

Have you decided on a floorplan? For big picture budgeting, you could price it out on Ikea's website. Be sure to add in cover panels and other finishing work - light rail, crown, etc. Plan for about 2x the Ikea cost to account for labor. Then you'll have a good idea of what a full kitchen in a line at the low end of budget spectrum would cost.

If that number is right around your budget, you know that you need to stay at the Ikea end of the budget spectrum. If you have more room in your budget, you could move on to more expensive lines. If the Ikea estimate is too high for you, you'll know you need to scale back somewhere.

This process will also show you where your limiting factor is likely to be. If you'd be fully happy with one of Ikea's door styles, you'll probably be happy with any line. But if you really want an end-to-end stained wood finish, or a brushstroke painted finish-- then you'll need to look for lines that offer that. If Ikea's cabinet sizes work perfectly in your space, then you probably won't need custom sizes in any line. But if your space demands different sizes than what Ikea offers, you'll want to choose a line that offers more customization.

I don't know if this will help or not. We redid the kitchen in our previous home in 2004. We purchased cabinets that were just above the lowest priced line that HD carried at the time. I'm sorry but I don't remember the brand. We have since turned that home into a rental. They have 5 kids. So I'm sure those cabinets are seeing heavy and somewhat rough use. I was just in the house a couple of months ago and those cabinets still look brand new, not a scratch or a ding, and all the drawers still slid as smooth as a knife through softened butter. At the time, I think we spent about $3500 on the cabinets. The laminate counters also still look great and the entry-level appliances we installed have worked fine without needing any repairs. I think you'd have to buy a really inferior brand and treat them harshly in order to mess up your kitchen so bad that you'd have to remodel in 10 years. I really don't think that's something you have to worry about.

Jennifer, not sure how long you been on this forum but you need to ignore Sophie's attitude, Unfortunately, while the message may be good....her delivery is not.

It is very difficult to know where to start, all I can tell you is my experience. I started by taking my measurements to Lowes for a free kitchen design, I knew I might not use Lowes cabinets. I knew the space might change is size and scope, but I wanted to see something on paper and really try to get an idea of what I liked and how the space would look. This morphed into something completely different by the end, but it was a start.

our current kitchen layout is awful, and that is THE biggest issue. A big change in design and layout is definitely in our plans.

That's tough then when you live in the country. So many kitchen designers are not very good that finding a good one might mean speaking to several before you find a knowledgeable one that has your best interests at heart. And you probably only have a couple of places in the area to choose from.

Moving doorways and other construction changes should also be kept on the table simply because they cost so little compared to the cabinetry, countertops, appliances, and the other materials you are buying.

I'd try the ciiqstudios to start and then bring in some contractors to give you advice before you decide on a design and order any cabinetry.

With our remodel, a local designer wasn't really an option for two reasons. We have HD and a local lumber shop. The KDs aren't exactly the most talented or helpful. It only took short visits with both to realize that they didn't seem to know more than I did about design and that they had no concept or buy-in to my vision. When one said that the only way I'll have a decent kitchen was to close up windows for more wall cabinets, I knew to run away....fast! The other was just plain rude and condescending. I think my frugal nature was a turn-off because he just wanted me to look at high-end cabinets in styles, like Tuscan with lots of fancy moldings, that just wouldn't work in an MCM house. I wouldn't be surprised if Jennifer is going to run into the same type of problems.

Jennifer, have you posted a layout here to get advice? GWebbers were invaluable to me in planning a functional kitchen that should also be quite attractive when done (if I nail my finishes).

I was just going to suggest what funkycamper did. If you can post a layout, there is a vast amount of experienced people here who I know would be more than willing to help. I am hoping to do that myself in the near future (once I figure out how to post pics), and I am looking forward to the suggestions. It's free, so you have nothing to lose and everything to gain!

@beth09, at the bottom of the comment box is a photo button. Just click it and then select a photo off your computer. I believe you can only do four photos per post. HTH

Thanks beth & funkycamper! I think I just need to do a bit of research and ask more specific questions at this point about specific brands. I'll post a layout soon!

funkycamper, thank you! Funny, right after I said that, I happened to read another post where someone was explaining how to post pics. They were totally different from what I had read in old threads. I assume that was how it was before GW merged with Houzz. I definitely know how to post off my computer, it was when I thought I would have to do it from a host site that I was confused and putting off figuring it out. Anyway thanks again. :)

Jennifer, I look forward to seeing your pics!

I disagree, Jennifer. If you spend some time designing a good, functional design for your kitchen that will also be visually attractive to you and give you the storage you need, you will know exactly what kind of cabinets you need. You can then get quotes from that list instead of having to bother with design services. But even more important, you can eliminate any companies that don't carry the exact cabinet you need and want. Or companies that have decided to charge both-arms-and-a-leg for that particular cabinet while another company might provide the same, at relatively similar quality, for a more reasonable price. All companies seem to mark up things a bit differently so this could end up being an important way to compare price and quality to get the best balance of each.

Jennifer- didn't you post your layout already? Yours is the house with that beautiful original wood bench in the foyer, right? Beautiful! I remember, you got some great ideas for your kitchen, powder room, and moving the laundry upstairs from some of the best designers here on GW.

You mentioned it being hard for you to get to a big box store or cabinet store as they are all an hour away from you, I wondered if you could call the nearest Lowes and set up a phone or email appt. with the KD. You could use one of the layout suggestions you received on your other thread for now just to start the ball rolling. There design service is free. That way you could get an idea of the cost.

The first time I priced my cabinets at Lowe's, it was way over my budget for even for the middle cabinet line (Kraftmaid I think?). My budget was much less then 20,000, but my kitchen is probably smaller then yours.

Disappointed, I decided I better wait and save every penny for a while. However, in desperation, I ordered a sample door from one of those RTA lines that are not "made in the usa" since I could afford those. Thank goodness, at this time I discovered GW in researching that particular RTA brand.

I read comments from Sophie (hollysprings) saying they were total "----------crap" I am very thankful for her blunt comments as it helped me from making a huge mistake! The sample looked exactly like she said after only about a month.

I next looked into Scherrs as they seem very nice, but they cannot ship to me. I was leaning heavily towards Barker at this point.

Then one day, after about a year and a half, I go into Lowe's and they were having a great sale on the better quality Schuler line (which I believe is the same as Medallion?)

I again did my same layout with the same KD (btw, she is an awesome woman who has been a kd for over 35 years and out of neccessity has been at Lowe's for like 20 years! Sounds like someone on here!)

After the discount, I was in the ballpark! I even added a few extras to get me into the next price category for an even bigger discount. The sale also included a free sink base and free paint upgrade, and a Lowe's gift card for 10% of the total price.

After all was said and done, I think I saved about 7,000+ from the original Kraftmaid quote from the year before. I didn't change the layout either, in fact I added stuff. I got a way nicer cabinet brand. And I have a gift card to use still.

I think the Schuller brand is very nice. Mine is the maple white icing paint, full overlay, plywood box, soft close, mostly drawers, stacked uppers with glass. They pretty much fill the needs you said you wanted above.

I'd check them out. Maybe ask if they have any idea when a sale might be coming up. They might not know exactly when, but should have some insight.

I know you want quality that will last. I will let you that my mom redid her kitchen with the Lowe's Kraftmaid in a maple with espresso finish about ten years ago. I was so glad I didn't go with this brand. Her finish is wearing off by all her knobs, it's dull in other areas where you don't even touch them, a couple cabinet doors fell off the hinges, etc.... She's single, immaculate, and not rough on her cabinets. I feel bad as they are not holding up well at all. Point being that I would not go with that brand if you want them to last over ten years.

Well, I have rambled on long enough! :-). I am so bad that it is a running joke in my family!

Ok, sorry have to add something else. See! I cannot help myself.

For the record, I did not take your response to Sophie as negative at all. You explained that was indeed not the case. That is why when I read a post I try not to add tone, body language, or attitude into it. I do that only in posts where I want to have a good laugh! Not where it will make me offended to do so.

I have appreciated and used so much advice from Sophie over the years. She always has the OP's best interest at heart. I find her short, simple, to the point delivery exactly what is needed sometimes. In fact, she has made me laugh out loud many times with her honesty. I never took it as brutal, just honest, with a hint of sarcasm when appropriate. I love her! :-)

Best wishes on your cabinet hunting!

Yeah, I've noticed the lines of cabinets and features is not exactly standard from brand to brand. It's really hard to compare sometimes!

I think right now, I'm going to focus on overall design of the space, and go from there. In the end, I think our budget will probably dictate what we go with. :)

Jennifer, I recall how totally bewildered I was when researching cabinets. Hang in there; it will eventually become clear. I went from Amish custom, to Conestoga RTA, to local custom, and finally settled on Kraftmaid at HD. Amish Custom was the nicest, but it would have blown too much of my budget. Conestoga would have been gorgeous, but the RTA was more than I could handle as a widow. I wanted a factory finish so did not go with local custom. What it came down to was KM having the door style, glaze and moldings I liked, plus an experienced "designer" at HD who was a pleasure to work with through the process. My experience was that the cabinets, uninstalled, accounted for about half the cost of my total project. However, I kept the same layout, floor tile, wall color, and recessed lighting. An ASID designer was also used to assist with counter and backsplash selections. I know there were probably cabinets out there at a better price, but my time and patience were worn thin at that point. The HD cabinet installers were outrageously expensive so I found my own. It feels like a "trial by fire" but is well worth it at the end. A large part of my positive result is due to all the help from the GW folks. Just take your time and do what feels right for you.