Please help choose roses for tricky spots!

9 years ago

Hi everyone!

I'm new to roses but been gardening for a while. I really need some advice on which roses could work in some tricky spots I have, as I just can't decide. Sorry it's a long post!

First of all, I'm in Sydney Australia, zone 11a I think? Hot humid summers, mild spring, autumn and winter.

Anyway the places are:

1) Short to medium climber needed for sandstone wall, approx 2m (W) x 3m (H) space, partial shade (morning and middday sun, not much in the afternoon), can only grow in extra large pot (eg 60cm diameter), prefer strong fragrance.

2) Short to medium climber for second sandstone wall, in partial shade (same as above) in extra large pot, prefer repeat flowering or heavily flowering/clusters, strong fragrance, hips a bonus.

3) Climber in full sun in ground, pretty hot in summer. Large space 4m x 5m sandstone wall with balcony above, pillars at sides, rose could potentially grow right up wall and around front of balcony to level of roof. Soil not amazing but ok, would prefer hardy, lower maintenance for this one as access is a bit more difficult. Three greengage plums in front but only several years old. Fragrance and/or hips a bonus. Lots of clustered small flowers could be nice. Was thinking of Rambling Rector or Mermaid?

4) Extra large pots in full sun near front door - was thinking of Tamora, Crocus rose, Comte de Chambord, Pretty Jessica, Rose de Rescht, Madam Hardy, Munstead Wood, Molineux, Ballerina?

5) Front of border, full sun, miniatures or polyanthas only? Don't know anything about these.

6) Narrow, long garden bed, full sun, possibly hedge type, must be quite upright and well-behaved, less thorny preferred. Forms fence between us and neighbours so can't be invasive. Prefer fragrance, repeat blooming.

7) 3-4 spots in garden bed, good soil, full sun, max size of each plant would be 2ft x 4ft approx. Strong fragrance a must. Mixed bed - will have annuals and herbs in front. Prefer pretty shrub style bushes to fit cottage garden style. Other nearby plants include lavenders, alpine strawberries, herbs, primroses etc.

8) Large but narrow (3m x 1m) spot in backyard against a paling fence, full sun (esp morning), soil ok, some tree roots around, prefer fragrance.

Roses I would like to grow include:
Dainty Bess or White Wings
Abraham Darby
Tuscany Superb
Celsiana
Celeste
Quatre Saisons
Omar Khayyam
Fruhlingsgold
Jude the Obscure
Souvenir de la Malmaison
Blush Noisette
Mme Isaac Pereire

I already own these in pots: Alnwick rose, Comte de Chambord, Tamora, Fantin Latour (a mistake - didn't realise how big she would get - I should probably exchange her), Mme Hardy. Recommendations for the best spots for these ones welcome!

I'd like at least one that produces good flowers for cutting with some fragrance, I don't know much about these.

Out of the three climbers, I'd like one Austin type, one with smaller clustered flowers and not sure about the other. Don't like red as much as pinks, whites, yellows, apricots etc.

Water is not such an issue and I can feed/spray etc except for spraying the large climber (no. 3).

I'm keen to get the old roses in, as well as the Austins, so any suggestions welcome!

Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing all the ideas :)

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Comments (5)

seil zone 6b MI
9 years ago
Of the roses you listed I have Dainty Bess. She is a rather tall shrubby rose, up to 5 or 6 feet for me. She's beautiful and does repeat well but has little fragrance and is short lived in a vase. She does black spot but is pretty winter hardy.

I also have Rose de Rescht and she's a pretty good size bush. I did grow her for about 4 or 5 years in a pot but she gets pretty large. She's also very thorny! Her fragrance is wonderful but she also has no vase life. I get little or no repeat on her. RdR is very hardy but a black spot magnet and gets what we call on here the Damask Crud. Once she blooms in the spring her leaves get really ugly and stay that ways pretty much the rest of the season.
seil zone 6b MI
9 years ago
You know, you have a lot of OGRs and Austins listed here. You might do better to post this over on the Antiques forum.
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Colette is very good at resisting BS here where we do get lots. She's gorgeous, but she's not a bright rose in my sun (I like that where I have her). I can't think of non-fading climbers I have whose canes are flexible except her. Maybe Cl Caroline Testout, but mine's too young to know if her canes are normally as pliable as my young one's are. They got much taller already, but I have yet to see whether big, tough basal breaks are in the future :D Jasmina is one I have who is pliable and nice, but is she too short for your tastes? She may fade too much for you, but she does it so charmingly! It makes her a multi-color in mauves and pinks.
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I think if you only get 3-4 hours of morning sun, it will be hard to find a rose that will bloom well for you. Then again, you won't know until you try. Does the top of the pergola get more sun? Best case, the rose will grow up to the top without blooming much, and then do better once it reaches heights with more sun. Off the topic of roses, here is a guide to planting climbing hydrangeas: http://www.marthastewart.com/1502837/marthas-step-step-guide-climbing-hydrangeas But they won't have a scent. For scented climbers, you could try jasmine, but I'm not sure how well it does in shade. If you are planning on putting iris in that shady front bed, I would stay away from bearded iris, which like lots of sun. Japanese iris are ok in part shade. Even better for you would be Pacific Coast iris. These plants thrive on the west coast in part shade. I have several clumps of iris douglasiana (a native pacific coast iris) growing in my yard in spots that get maybe 1 or 2 hours of morning sun, and they bloom like crazy for about a month in the spring. There are many beautiful varieties. Check out the article here. Finally, another flower that has done great for me in part shade is foxglove. There are perennial varieties that will bloom from spring into late summer even in afternoon shade. And if you want scent, oriental lilies like some afternoon shade and create a heady perfume throughout the garden.
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Bernik, It is difficult giving advice on rose varieties. It is such a subjective, personal decision only you can make. That is why I believe Roses Forum members are hesitant to respond to your question. Do you require all exceptionally fragrant roses? Do you want classic hybrid tea exhibition form blooms, more casual blooms in sprays, or the cupped and quartered Austin rose bloom look? Bloom colors, bush sizes, growth characteristics (arching, columnar, spreading....), ...are all traits you must decide upon yourself. There is one bit of advice i will give you that will make your care of your roses go a lot easier. It is to grow disease resistant roses. This holds true especially if you would like to grow your roses organically. One way of accomplishing this is to do a thorough research on every variety that interests you, to determine how much 'babying,' it may need to keep it in top condition. Choose only the ones that require minimal/no insect and disease control care The ADR awarded roses, many of which are Kordes roses, have been tested to thrive without disease or winter protection. They essentially are bulletproof, ideal garden roses. There are ADR winning roses from other breeders than Kordes. A list of them is found on Wikipedia. Insect issues may be present with ADR winners. Insect resistance is very difficult to breed for. However disease resistance, especially to the dreaded black spot and powdery mildew, among ADR roses is exceptional.....essentially no spray roses for disease. Grafin Diana, Limona, and Souvenir de Baden Baden are all ADR winners, great choices for you. Your beds comprised of these three would be spectacular! All three of these hybrid tea bushes will have somewhat upright, elegant presentations of their blooms in your beds. The colors will complement each other richly. Grafin Diana is very fragrant. I had Grafin Diana, but the particular bush I had did not thrive for me. I believe it was more that the bush was diseased from the grower not the variety itself. I plan to acquire Grafin Diana from another source and try again. So many people give glowing reports about GD that it would be foolish for me not to try again. Souvenir de Baden Baden, moderately fragrant to some noses, strongly to others. I class its fragrance between moderate and strong. It is vigorous, blooms abundantly, and I find it an indispensable, much beloved rose! I do not have Limona. From its press, it looks great. Moses
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comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
9 years ago
What Seil said. Definitely one for the Antique Roses Forum. (In case you're not aware, there is also a Roses in Oz Forum, but it's woefully short of users. You could try posting on there as well - of course the more posts it gets, the more chance there is of attracting more visitors to it - but just don't rely on getting much, if any, response.)

To find these other forums, go to the top of this page and click on Garden Forums (in green writing) and select from the long list there. Or, from the first page of this forum, where all the posts are listed in order, click on Antique Roses in the list of related links at the top, also in green. For Roses in Oz, you have to go through the Garden Forums list. I hope that makes sense to you!

Oh, and, an afterthought... it might be a very good idea to include a bit more detailed temperature info, since a number of your choices may not cope well in very high temperatures, especially in full sun. Summer highs and how long that hottest weather usually lasts should cover it I think.

Good luck!

Comtesse :¬)
jerijen
9 years ago
I am in Southern California -- where the weather is growing hotter and drier.

I grow principally Old Roses, and I have grown many roses up against a south-facing retaining wall, and the only ones that handle it well are very heavily-foliaged. I've had several things cane-burned so badly they gave up and died. We do better with trellissing up against the wall, behind the roses, but it is "iffy." You may do better if you have afternoon shade, but walls are tricky in hot climates.

With the weather getting so much hotter, and watering restrictions coming in, I think we will be growning mostly salvias, along those beds. If anything.
comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Brightstar, Thinking some more about your plans, I feel your best option might be to contact Heritage Roses in Australia Inc., who have groups all over Australia with a number of regional groups around NSW, including one in Sydney.

Because this is such a challenging/borderline possible situation, I feel what you need is some very specialised advice from locals with both expertise in the sort of roses you want to grow, and the local climate/conditions. From there, you could discuss the microclimate of your particular location and those spots you're planning to put your roses. I would think they would be able to tell you more reliably than we can how they would be likely to do, and/or suggest more suitable alternatives.

I'm not sure if there are any Antique Roses forum members here from NSW - is billyteabag from there maybe, and some others? There may also be a few in Victoria around, and we have Adam in WA, but they may not have detailed knowledge of your sub-tropical Sydney conditions. And a lot of people do 'lurk' without participating much. There may well be many in areas of the US whose conditions would be fairly similar to yours, but since you're planning on quite a large investment here, of time and effort as well as just financial, I think you need to be very sure before you plunge in.

The website for Heritage Roses in Australia is: heritage.rose.org.au and I see there that the co-ordinator for the Sydney group is a lady called Glennis... can't remember her last name.

Please do let us know how you get on, and don't hesitate to pick our brains again here or on the ARF. I hope you'll find some great solutions for your garden, and be able to post us some gorgeous pictures one day!

Comtesse :¬)

Please help choose roses for tricky spots!

Comments (5)

seil zone 6b MI

seil zone 6b MI

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