How do you plan to pay for it? Cash? Borrow?

In 2012 I remodeled my kitchen and in 2014 my guest bath. I buy things strictly on a cash basis, so I thought about what I could afford to spend, and started there. To each amount I mentally prepared myself for a "you must be joking" moment and added a realistic additional amount. I ended up going with the original amount plus the reality-check amount and hit it pretty much dead-on. I live in a modest middle-class neighborhood in an area of high housing costs. I don't have any plans to sell.

I'm looking forward to what others have to say on this. I had some ideas on what a good budget was--but that all went out the window once I started meeting with contractors and realized how expensive remodeling really is. I had thought $25K seemed like a reasonable budget, but I'm learning that to have a reputable contractor do the job with permits, I'm looking at $50K at the bare minimum (laminate counter, vinyl floor, Ikea cabinets). I'm in a high cost-of-living area; my house was built in 1915 and needs expensive work to meet current code, deal with lead-based paint, etc.

After getting some idea what the project would cost, I'm looking at possible resale value and how long I plan to stay in the house. My neighborhood has a lot of rentals and older homes, not very high-end, so I'm trying to keep close to the $50K. If it were my forever home, I might put more money in, but I'm not sure how long I'll be here, so want to minimize expenses since I'm unlikely to get it out at resale.

I don't think you can go very far budgeting without talking to contractors (note: all the KDs I met underestimated costs significantly). If you're concerned with wasting their time, maybe wait until you think you might have enough money budgeted--just be prepared that you might need a lot more!

Cash, if I was going to borrow I'd be ready now :) or more specifically, borrow everything I can on rewards cards for less than a month.

Yeah, good idea caligirl. Maybe I'll plan on starting to get bids next summer or so. There are certain things that I have no idea which way to go until someone evaluates it. Like I want a tile floor, but not if it has to be built up with a couple of inches of plywood, etc. such that it will be a step down into the next room.

I don't know how others did it, but I prolly did it backwards. After an almost firm design plan and spending lots of Internet time learning about today's products and what I needed/wanted/liked, I sent out for estimates and quotes from my armchair. All the typical high priced stuff in a kitchen - cabinets, countertops, etc. I think during design stage we 'picked' appliances for sizing, so I already had an idea of those costs. Plugged almost every detail into a spreadsheet for future reference: product names, vendor info, salesman, price, quantity, etc. etc. If I wasn't sure which countertop material I wanted, I got estimates for both. Nearly fainted at the tally, but it gave me something to work with. From there I made the tough decisions on what I really, really wanted and what I was willing to give up or go less expensive. From there I looked at GC/contractors. Unfortunately, due to other personal reasons, I did not get to implement the kitchen right away and a year or so later, some of the pricing had increased. I did not go with an all-inclusive firm so I had to purchase on my own, the fixtures, etc. when the time came.

Thanks, Mags. That's roughly the direction I have been going, though I'm not at the stage of contacting people yet. I have been working on researching contractors and fabricators, but have yet to communicate with any.

I have changed my mind about counters I want about four times, and might change it again after I start to get estimates.

It should begin with a simple spread sheet or note paper with a list outlining the scope of work. My current kitchen renovation is not my first rodeo. I have a ball park idea of cost. That's where I started, with a list.

I went shopping on line and got a feel for appliance costs. I also evaluated what appliances I could keep and what I needed to replace.

Next, measure the space. Put the dimensions on graph paper or on a design software. Be sure to note windows, doors and the adjacent rooms. Once you have done this, post it on the forum. The generous folks at this forum will help you develop a floor plan.

Once you have a floor plan, you can start shopping for cabinets. Cabinets will likely be your biggest cost. There are a lot of places to find cabinets. Hang out here and you will discover what will suit you best.

Lurking here and asking questions will make you an educated consumer, expose you to new possibilities, and set you on good path to getting the best possible result.

I set an amount I want to spend. Then I see a cool picture or a great piece of granite and end up doubling it, LOL. Seriously, leave wiggle room to say yes to some of the stuff that you find along the way that you fall in love with...

@infinity - when u contact the countertop places for samples and estimates, usually the price of countertop includes fabrication/install costs, either all-inclusive or as a line item. Countertop ppl usually show up for the first time when they come to measure for templating. At least that has been my experience

Btw, I did not share my total kitchen budget with any contractors/gc before they gave me their price.

Thanks again Mags! You are right. I am dragging my spouse to go look at cabinets next weekend, after that I might start to feel more like I can start to proceed. I could probably begin talking to counter folks fairly soon.

We had resale in mind, so I started by finding out what types of finishes were normal in my area and in the other units in my complex. (We don't want to over-improve our condo, but I want it to be nice and a little special.) I mocked up a design plan for our place based on that. Then I got quotes for everything and greatly readjusted my design plan based on those numbers. Then we saved up for and spent whatever the final design plan cost.

I think that is a little bit backwards from what most people do, but essentially, we figured out what kind of work we should do on a home like ours, found out how much that would cost, and then saved up that amount/did it in stages when we had the money.

I think most people determine how much they are willing to spend and then find out how much they can get done for that amount of money.

(Or, more commonly, determine how much they are willing to spend, assume it is plenty to get them everything they want, and then are very upset when they find out it's not. Then they decide to do without some improvements they had wanted and spend more money than they wanted to in the first place to get the rest of the improvements done.)

"I think most people determine how much they are willing to spend and
then find out how much they can get done for that amount of money."

You have touched on something I have witnessed on here before that is curious to me. I've seen pros say things like, "Of course you have a budget, every homeowner knows their budget, you are just playing it close to the vest and won't tell us so we can help you." The homeowners say, "How are we supposed to come up with a budget without first knowing costs from pros?"

It is weird to me that people decide "Oh here's 50K, now I can get the kitchen I wanted, I'll have the fancy everything." But, I guess it happens and more often than I thought. I am trying to decide what I need and want first, then find out how much it is, then decide on the compromises, all while still gathering the money to have ready.

There are some sites that can give you a ballpark estimate of what a typical reno will cost. The annual cost vs value report is also helpful since it breaks down by region. Good places to start for realistic estimates assuming not DIY. If I reno'd based on how much we/DH 'wanted' to spend, I'd never get to renovate. It always costs more than we think it should cost

I just finished a substantial kitchen renovation which I had in the planning stages for about 3 years! Generally you need to think of all the items you need, and build the budget from the ground up. I first came up with a layout and drew the floor plan to scale. Then I researched appliances to get an idea of prices--they are fairly straightforward, especially the high end ones, not much discounting for them. The next step was the cabinets--I went to several kitchen/bath design showrooms, showed them the layout and asked for a ballpark figure, all the while being upfront and honest with them about my timing. If you let them know you are in the planning stage and don't take up too much of their time, they will be forthcoming with an estimate. Flooring, lighting, countertops, backsplash material, sinks and faucets all can be estimated using internet resources. The most difficult to estimate without a GC is the labor for rough plumbing, electric, insulation, new windows and doors, and structural issues, especially when you are adding square footage. When you are finished, you are then in a position to either decide you can afford it or go back to the drawing board to see where you need to cut. Also keep in mind you need to budget at least 10% for contingencies, and that it will ALWAYS cost more than you thought.

Take the highest number that you would be comfortable spending and add 25% to it. That's usually where the numbers start. Where they finish, well that depends on how many Houzz 200K kitchens you have in your idea books and how much you have let them influence your want list.

Funny, I was going to say 20% contingency. So, between the 10, 20 and 25 you get an idea. Contingencies depend on the age of the structure, the foundation, the condition of the electrical and plumbing, and how many walls are moved or removed. Those are the mystery items that say gottcha. You can try to make a prediction, but you won't know until finish.

You also have to think of the "while we are at it expenses." Example, I decided to replace the kitchen window, while we were at it. I didn't have to replace it, but I planned to do it eventually. While I had the mess and the carpenter nearby, I took the opportunity. The window was around $800, the labor to install and trim was $600. $1,400 isn't much in the big picture, but it has a way of adding up.

Our reno was DIY with the help of my DH's brother who is a licensed plumber and GC by trade. He is extremely knowledgeable about pricing in our area so we had him over and said this is what we want...how much and can we pay you to help us??? It was a complete reno...down to the studs, removed 2 walls, replaced window, completely new electrical to the whole kitchen including a new subpanel, new floors, cabinets, counters... just a complete redo) He estimated 30k (including a flat labor fee to him which we insisted upon. He wanted to do it for free.) which, after MUCHO research on my part, was exactly what I was thinking. He also advised to plan on about 20% contingency funds for all those unexpected surprises. We ended up spending almost 35k. We originally planned to keep the range and fridge as both were just a few years old. The range caught fire during the reno...something with the control panel, thank god no damage except to the range. We had to replace it of course and the old fridge was small so we went ahead and upgraded to a full-size one. Without those 2 expenses we would have been very close to his original estimate.

I would begin by analysing the work flow in the kitchen and see what, if anything, has to move to improve it. Can you close off a door? Make a door?

Then I would do the same for storage: where would adding some do the most good?

Prep area ... can you improve the layout of it?

Notice I haven't picked any cabinets or fixtures yet. I'm just analysing the requirements.

If you want structural changes, like making doors, removing walls and moving gas and plumbing lines, get them priced FIRST. And try to work within the existing layout, because moving stuff is expensive.

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Ways to lower the budget: buy used appliances or keep your old ones for now, and low-cost faucets and pendants (don't skimp on anything you can't easily replace. Can lights should not be skimped).

Get the "look and feel" pinned down and then look at cost-effective ways to get it. You can get the look and feel of almost anything in a wide range of pricing.

Sophie makes a good point. You usually do know what you can/cannot afford. I knew our savings for the kitchen would not extend to cover the Viking induction range I would love to have - something else would have had to go.

Layout help here, then I priced cabs at Barker to get a general idea of what the cabinets would cost, price appliances you need to replace, look long and hard at anything you currently have that would work. We are keeping the faucet (Hansgrohe), range hood (Broan), and maybe the dishwasher; although the control panel is cracked, it is still working and can be replaced later.

infinitylounge:

The best thing you can do at this stage is show respect for the value of your potential contractor's time. This means you telephone, ask if he has a minute, and would he be so kind as to give you an idea of how much some recent local jobs cost? See if you could get some names and an introduction to visit a completed job. Even if it's higher or lower than what you have in mind, it will be very useful.

Most importantly, when the potential contractor sees the respect you've shown for his time and knows that you're serious enough to look at his previous work, you have just risen to the top of his list of prospects. As you develop an idea as to how much things cost and how much you are comfortable spending, share that information with him.

" If , ''NO'', then what about a 3K GE Cafe? A 1K regular Maytag? $400
Craigslist used? With every gut reaction choice, you narrow your bracket
down."

This is so correct. The only major appliances I am replacing are range and hood. There are no gas lines to my house, and I already plan to spend around 1.5-2K on a 30" induction/convection from GE/Whirlpool/Frigidaire.

Dcward, I can't believe your range caught fire! Hope everyone is all right.

Lazy_gardens, pretty much the only cool thing about my existing kitchen that I will be keeping are these old chrome square recessed lights that came with the house. But two don't work and I have to get them rewired. Even with them working it is too dark to see what I am doing in there. I want UCL and probably sink and hood lighting.

Treb, thank you for your reply. I have a lot of respect for contractors and their time, thus I am hesitant to start using it 1-2 years before I am ready to spend. But you are right, if I treat it correctly maybe soon I can start getting to know some people soon.

The biggest questions left in my mind are counters and flooring. Well, counters aren't even that mysterious. I know what I want and if I can get it done for under 4K we have a deal. So that leaves floors. I don't even know whether what I want is possible in this house. But even my second choice I think is going to be pricy so that isn't too much of a suspense thriller either.

Sophie is right, I guess I do know most of my budget already. It is really helping to talk through it though. Thanks everyone.

Lazy_gardens...THAT is the way to do a project! I think you've approached this the way most people should and do not. Figure out what works in your space (or doesn't work) and then how to improve it. Knowing the flow and making that function for you is more important than updating a bad layout.

Many kitchens just need a face lift, not an overhaul, but small changes can make a big impact...like moving a door or swapping the range and fridge. Whatever the job may be, knowing what you like, what your style is and what you REALLY want in the space is crucial. Then pricing what you will need and keeping track of all those costs (Mags' spreadsheet) can keep the project from morphing into something too expensive and unnecessary.

And I'd say 20% over budget...you never know what's going on behind walls and under floors. Be prepared! :)

I agree with Lazy_gardens and Lavender_lass.

Once you have developed a layout that you like and that is as functional as possible in your space, then it's time to start pricing things. It makes NO sense to update an dysfunctional space.

We'll be doing about 95% of the work DIY so that makes budgeting easier, I realize. I'm no help with getting quotes from the pros.

For items purchased, because I'm unbelievably frugal, I figured the top-end I was willing to pay for the entire project and then began pricing the materials needed to see if my budget was anywhere near realistic. I tend to always look for the lowest price option that would be both functional and aesthetically pleasing to me. Then I double it because I know I haven't thought of everything. And then I say "Oh, no! Too much." And then I look for ways to cut costs but still come up with a nice looking, functional space, and watch for sales. A corner of my basement is stacked with boxes of sinks, faucets, specialty storage items, and such that I've bought on sale so far. And with quality used cabinets we will be painting and buying new doors/drawer fronts for that we have found at Habitat Re-Stores. And so it goes.

Caligirl5

This is just informational about old houses meeting current code. We live in a house built in 1902. We had it appraised for selling purposes a few months back. We were concerned about some of the elements of the house being up to current code. Our appraiser told us that older homes like ours were not expected to meet current code for some of the things. Kinda like being grandfathered in. Lead paint is one issue I am sure would not be included in that, but we took care of that decades ago. But some issues you might be concerned about may not even apply to your house.

We are in the middle of our kitchen remodel now. I guess I always had a general budget in mind, because I knew I wasn't going to spend 50k, but I also knew I was going to spend more than 30k. I would say I started at that point just from a general "what things cost", but also knowing this isn't my forever kitchen, as I have children in the "I can't have anything nice" phase.

I never liked the kitchen layout or the storage for practical reasons and never liked the cabinets or counter tops for aesthetic reasons. I have been planning this remodel more or less for the 5 years we have lived here.

The first thing I tackled was fixing the layout, that meant moving all of the appliances and plumbing. I received several bids over the course of the years, but eventually found a plumber and electrician that did good work on other projects for me, and they were willing to work on pricing to get the repeat business. The plumbing and electrical was about 15% of my budget.

Next I started shopping for cabinets. This phase took a long time ( at least a year) because I didn't have a huge budget for cabinets and I didn't want to go with IKEA. Nothing against, them at all. (I have PAX systems all over my house) I just didn't like the idea of RTA. I found a brand I am very happy with in my price range that isn't well thought of hear so I will keep that private. Cabinets came in at 40% of my budget.

One of my compromises was appliances, except for the GE professional range (11 years), they are all less than 4 years old so we kept them all. I did spend 1% of my budget on a new garbage disposal and new prep sink for the island.

Once I found the cabinet brand, I seriously started shopping for a GC. This too took longer than expected, about 6 months. I requested bids from 8, got actual written bids from 3, and selected the one with the best references and who showed me actual finished kitchens, let me meet his former clients and then left so I could ask any thing I wanted. He happened to be the middle bid and about 24% of my budget. I am very happy with him and his work and his project management, we have him bidding out a bath remodel now too.

Counters came next and were where I made very deliberate selections based on budget first, and the "look" I was going for second. I spent 10% of my budget on counters.

The rest of the budget was for refinishing the floors 7% and odds and ends like hardware and a new prep faucet for the remaining 3%.

Hope this helps!

Thanks zorroslw1! My understanding is the old stuff is grandfathered in if it met code when it was built. To pass inspections for the kitchen remodel, I will have to upgrade the kitchen to current code, eg. each appliance needs its own circuit, GFCI outlets, etc, but I can leave existing knob and tube wiring in the rest of the house. I'm not planning to remove all the lead paint either, it just makes demo and disposal more expensive :(

"My understanding is the old stuff is grandfathered in if it met code when it was built."

It depends. In many localities there is a 50% rule. If your remodeling exceeds 50% of the after rehab appraised value, everything must meet modern code.

In Florida, this can mean raising your home to 10 feet above the 100 year flood mark. With a block home on a slab, this can quickly become non-viable.

Everyone has given really good suggestions and the best one I think you should look at is walking through your kitchen and deciding 2 things: 1) What do I need to change and 2) What would I like to change. Take a full week and write down your routine. Decide what irritates you. What would you like to have. What do you need to have. Do this before you start pulling Houzz pictures or get inspiration. This process will help you with locking in the basics before it gets corrupted by the pretty pictures.

I was forced into remodeling from full gut because of a kitchen leak/flood. I had no money and no budget planned for it. From my experience, so far, you can do a remodeling with much lower than what people/KD tells you if you use creativity and are willing to compromise and stick to a budget religiously. Knowing that insurance will not pay enough to repair my house, I set aside $25K in savings for the extraneous and some upgrades. This is a hard budget with no wiggle room.

This amount was also meant to cover shortfall in the insurance, my deductible of $5K and any contingencies. That contingency is critical and ate up most of my entire budget. So far, I've had to repipe my entire house. It costs my neighbors $25K for their repiping. Mine will be $10K because I did a lot of research, interviewed neighbors out of the neighborhood, got recommendations and then got quotes. I only asked for 2 quotes but from the top specialists. My contractor is the company that most of the GCs in the areas use but I don't have to pay the upcharge and the GC percentage that other people paid.

I had compromises such as getting a BS rangetop instead of full range. So far, I've been able to squeak out most of my wants list by a lot of research and negotiations. Even without planning time, I'm still able to buy the replacement appliances at up to 50% off retail while getting brand new items.

I would recommend a spreadsheet and construction chart to plan your remodel. It helped me to account for every single item that needed to be done and plugged in costs. Every time something extra came up, I plugged it in and then cut from other areas so that my bottom line does not change.

The forced budgeting actually made my remodel plan much better than if I had had unlimited funds. I also saved money by acting as my own GC for the cabinets, flooring and big jobs and using a GC only for the electrical and plumbing.

In fact, two KDs that I interviewed was trying to sell me on using their cabinet source and had bad mouthed my chosen custom cabinet maker. They finally admitted using that cabinet maker for their own house and luxury clients. Since I was considered a budget or middle of the road client, they were trying to sell a standard line. Their quote was 75% more than my direct quote and had inferior products.

The one thing that you don't want to compromise on is quality. Use fully licensed, experienced people and make sure that you are fully permitted and in code. This may mean that you have to wait to get things done. I had to wait almost 2 months for my repipe because the contractor was that busy.

I honestly don't know what the rule is , but I do know that when we were remodeling (and it was nowhere near 50% of the value of the condo), we were required to replace all existing outlets up to 52" from the floor with tamper-resistant outlets, even if they were in a room in which we were doing no electric work.

Good to know, since you appear to be in my town (San Jose), and your condo was probably built well after 1915. I'm going to ask the GCs I'm interviewing more questions about this--I know everything doesn't have to meet current code, but it makes sense that there could be some items that would need to be upgraded even outside the area I'm remodeling.

Back to the budget question: my point was that it's really hard to estimate the cost of labor and structural work without talking to some GCs, and for my project those costs make up most of the budget. The other commenters make great points about learning what finishes you like and associated costs. I did that as well and decided that I'd rather put more money in structural work than nicer finishes (to some extent, I have no choice but to prioritize the structural work if I want permits). Then I talked to GCs and realized I needed to up my budget--and I was still getting laminate and Ikea :)

cali, I'm actually in San Francisco, so do ask your San Jose GC!