Not quite sure what you're asking, and the dimensions you give aren't entirely clear. Can those shade tolerant crops be planted next to the tomatoes? Sure, why not? They won't harm each other. But of course if you're going to plant tomatoes on the north side of the bed, you'd like them not to be shaded by anything on the south side of the bed. Peas on the south side of the bed (which is 9 feet long, I guess), with proper support like a trellis, might well do that, depending how far the south side is from the north side. Is that distance the 6 foot "width" you're referring to? Sounds kind of close, as peas can easily get at least that high, and a 9 foot wall of 6 foot high peas makes a lot of shade. Of course, the peas might well be all done by the time the tomatoes max out in productivity, in which case you can remove them entirely.

You might want to make some effort to scope out your problem with the tomatoes, because if the problems with the leaves were a matter of gardening methodology or nutrient deficiency rather than disease, moving them isn't going to help.

Thanks for your response. My somewhat strange trapezoidal set-up is hard to explain in words, and I think I actually got my north and south confused. The long side where I had the tomatoes last year is actually the north side, and I'm thinking of moving the tomatoes to the south side and growing peas on the north side on a trellis, most likely followed by pole beans and cucumbers. The peas wouldn't cast shade on the tomatoes, but since the tomatoes are also so freaking tall I am worried they will cast too much shade on the rest of the bed.

I really have no idea what was causing the tomato issues but it could have been related to the watering, which I did with a handheld hose, and I didn't prune them enough when they were small, which led to them becoming insane monster plants in September. I may switch to a soaker hose this year, and I will definitely give them a bit more space and better pruning; hopefully better air circulation will help cut down on problems. I will try some different varieties as well.

I'm going to correct my initial post - but would appreciate thoughts on whether the tomatoes would cast too much shade if planted on the south side?

OK yes, you should correct your post. You originally said that the tomatoes were on the south side, and that's where you had problems. The issue of shading is critically dependent on which side is which. South side (assuming you're in the northern hemisphere!) gets assured sun. The north side may or may not, depending on what's leaning over it on the south side.

Indeterminate tomatoes, properly strung up, can reach heights of six feet. At least four feet. If those are on the south side, those will cast a lot of shade. Not quite as much as, say, corn, but still quite a bit. How big did your monster plants grow last year?

Peas on the north side might be smart. Why? Because peas go in well before tomatoes, and grow straight up, so the tomatoes will always be smaller than the peas. So peas on the north side will always get a lot of sun.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't let me correct my initial post, argh. I definitely got the directions reversed. I'm going to try to upload a photo so you can see the dimensions and directions. The actual growing space is smaller than shown in the picture because the dimensions shown are for the outside of the bed, but the edges of the raised bed are about 4 inches or so, all the way around.

Last year I grew sungold and sweet 100 on the north side, and they were easily 6-7 feet tall. This year I am going to keep the sungold and try Cherokee purple and one other indeterminate variety, but not a cherry type. So I'm expecting to have three plants, each 5-6 feet tall. Would they cast too much shade on the rest of the bed if planted in a triangular configuration on the south side of the bed?

Just trying to figure out the best configuration to fit tomatoes and peas, and not shade out everything else, and I thought it would be good to have a bit of a crop rotation, but maybe that's not so important? Thanks again for your advice !

Thanks. Interesting that you can't edit initial posts, but you can edit comments. Never noticed that.

I think it's a matter of degree. Tall tomato plants on the south side will cast shadows at least several feet outwards towards the north (up in our hemisphere). Of course, the longest shadows will be in early morning and late afternoon. So things planted right underneath the tomatoes on the north side of them really won't get any direct sun at all. It will be a challenge to decide what to put there. By the time you get six feet away from the tomatoes, you'll get more. The peas will do fine wherever you put them because, as I said, they will always be higher than the tomatoes. Putting stuff that will get tall on the south side of a bed, like indeterminate tomatoes, really isn't that wise.

I sometimes think that people are overly religious about crop rotation. I've put cherries in the same place every year for almost a decade (amending that area each year with compost, and growing peas in between), and have never had any problems. It's on the north side of my bed, BTW. At least Sungold is highly resistant to lots of diseases. I have to say that if one side of your bed is infected with a disease, a section only six feet away probably will be as well.

You have a small bed, but you're giving appropriate thought to arranging it.

Thank you. This is very helpful. I like your idea of switching between peas and tomatoes in the same spot, but not sure it's possible for me. I have Sugar Snap peas that, according to the package, take 60 days to mature. If I planted them at the end of March, that would mean they would mature around the beginning of June, which would mean I couldn't get tomatoes in the ground until mid-June. Last year I planted my tomatoes around Memorial Day. Isn't mid-June too late to plant tomatoes? (Plus, I also have some Windsor fava beans I'd like to try, but those take longer to mature than the Sugar Snaps, so I definitely couldn't do those and tomatoes in the same spot.)

I could just try keeping the tomatoes in the same place and seeing what happens - but if I do that where is the best place for the peas? I'm expecting them to be around 6 feet tall also, but of course they will be done by mid-June so they won't shade the garden for the entire season like the tomatoes would. Last year I didn't grow peas but I really want to try them this year. My kids will eat snap peas only if they are very freshly picked, so I'd like to grow them myself.

I did notice that the Sweet 100s were much more susceptible to disease last year (and it started with them) which I why I don't want to grow them again. Despite the disease problems, though, I had loads of great fruit until frost.

I would agree that with a bed the size of yours, it won't matter where you put the tomatoes as far as disease prevention. I think your idea of a soaker hose for watering may help, as may using mulch under your tomato plants. Everything I've read has suggested that many tomato foliar diseases are spread by soil splashing onto the foliage from rain or watering, and many growers also remove some of the lowest growing foliage to reduce that probability.

Can you plant your peas in a wide band in the northern 4' of the Eastern diagonal? That will allow most of your crops to get plenty of sun. Or you could plant them in the same band along the west edge and plant lettuce or other crops that like it a bit cooler and might welcome some shade in the hottest part of the day to slow bolting. While Sugar Snap is the variety that has the best taste IMO, there are some shorter snap peas such as Sugar Ann which I find at Johnny's, but may be available elsewhere. Or if space allows, can you angle your pea fence outward a bit once the peas have started clinging to the bottom part to provide less shading?

Thanks to both of you. Sounds like I should keep the tomatoes on the north side then. NHBabs, I like your placement idea for the peas and think it will work. I'll have to think some more about which side is better. I've never grown peas before -- can I grow them on both sides of the trellis or just a single side?

Thanks also for the suggestion of mulching the ground underneath the tomatoes. I didn't do that last year and I think it might help. Also, I plan to be much stricter with the pruning this year. I think that will help as well. In terms of mulch - would I use the same cedar mulch as in my non-edible garden? I've also thought about trying to create a living, green mulch - I have a number of partially used seed packets of things like lettuce and beets and was thinking of trying to underplant the tomatoes with those. Any idea if this would work? Thanks again for your thoughts!

As someone who has a community garden plot, I completely understand the difficulty of not rotating. I understand the reasons why you should-- the disease and nutrient issues. But, like you, I want my tomatoes which take up room and sun and just don't have the space to rotate, am not wiling to take a year without them. So I pay attention to the soil, with compost and fertilizer and just do what I can. I would put the toms on the north side.

Here in Denver, early blight is not normally an issue, but the weather last spring made it one. It was also the first year we didn't use a plastic mulch for our toms. I think that made a difference. We used burlap, and then cedar mulch with pruning and copper spray, and still dealt with blight. Only lost one plant, but most were affected and it's hard to say how much production was lost. I would consider a plastic mulch--you can put the soaker hose underneath, and then only have splash when it rains. I would not under plant with other veg--you're just setting up for water, nutrient issues, just as if you didn't weed. If you go with a bark mulch, my understanding is that depending on your climate, it can invite some pests such as slugs and earwigs due to creating good habitat. But, yes a bark mulch like in flower beds works--just avoid ones with dyes added.

Most peas plant in double rows, about 6" apart, so yes you can do both sides of your trellis. They like to grow together.

As to peas on a trellis, the peas will weave themselves through the terrace. So once you get a foot or so off the ground, both sides are being used, no matter where they're coming out of the ground. But sure. Plant on both sides if you want.

Mulch has two benefits. One, it prevents soil splashing, but the other is that is reduces watering needs, which might splash that soil in the first place. And yes, I agree about not underplanting. That's not mulch, because it's using water and nutrients. I would stay away from large-chunk/chipped bark mulch, however. It doesn't degrade in a timely way, and by the end of the season, you probably won't be able to dig it in. Use mulch that is well shredded that will compose in situ in the course of the season.

Thanks again, I really appreciate all this great feedback! I will look into mulch options, I could try cardboard boxes with chips on top. I also have access to a large basically infinite supply of leaves from London plane trees but have shied away ftom using them because a neighbor told me that there's something wrong with the trees and I shouldn't put the leaves in my compost if I want to grow legumes. Does this sound at all plausible? If I knew that the London plane leaves wouldn't harm my garden, I could just use those.

Actually, I use shredded leaves (oak, cedar elm, cottonwood) almost exclusively for mulch. I have too many leaves! I'm not that familiar with plane tree leaves, but I believe that they are kind of tough and waxy (as are sycamore), and even shredded they may take more time to break down than most other tree leaves. That's not a reason not to use them for mulch, though it may be a good reason not to load up a compost pile with them. Of course, plastic mulch wouldn't break down either, and I wouldn't load up my compost pile with shredded plastic! I don't think it plausible that plane tree leaves will harm any plants.

Great! One last question - since you guys have been so great at answering my questions! Any idea how many feet of soaker hose would be appropriate for my bed?

Great news, everyone! Today I went out to prep the bed and discovered that I could install my pea trellis in a triangular shape - so I now have two triangular trellises in each corner on the north side - and I still have room for my three tomatoes in between! I will upload a photo so you can see. When the peas are done the trellises will be perfect for cucumbers or pole beans.

Now, I'm getting ready to sprout my peas and am wondering how many I can plant. Since I have a small bed I like to plant pretty intensively. What's the max number of peas I can get on each trellis? The sides of the triangles are 14 inches each.

Plant new seeds three or four inches apart under the trellis. If the soil is good, don't even bother to thin.

I'm not quite sure what the advantage is of a triangular trellis shape, though. I'd just mount the 14-inch segments almost flat to the fence -- so you get more than a yard of trellis each. That's how to make best use of the light. Even triangle-shaped, you'll probably need to anchor the free-standing trellis to the fence anyway.

You can't tell in the picture, but the bed isn't against the fence - there's probably a good 1.5 feet pathway between the bed and the fence. So it wouldn't be possible to mount the trellis to the fence anyway. The triangular shape feels pretty secure. This way I can fit peas and tomatoes and minimize the shadows they cast - so I am going to give this setup a try. If it doesn't work I'll try something different next year. :)

Ah, OK. Though if you don't need the path, you could lean the opened trellis against the fence at angle. You could even have a support arm (just a 1x2 would do it) that reaches out from the fence to the opened vertical trellis. With the trellis folded, a lot of sunlight will be hitting the fence that could be hitting the peas.

That's an interesting idea. I will test out leaning the support against the fence, if that works it might be even better. Thanks for the idea!

Leaning against the fence works great! Even better than the triangles. Great idea, thank you!