I have finished major part of the project, still need to fix small things like paint work on the wooden boarder, arbor over waterfall, rails, aquatic plants and fish. here are some pics; Mia, thanks again for the pump and filters, it is working great, lift lot of water. Thank you all for all those tips to make it happen. Here is a link that might be useful: Hot Bath Tub Water Garden

ALL, I never received notification regarding the appreciated follow up responses. So no, my nose (or other body part) was NOT out of joint .... Live_Wire_Oak and GreenDesigns, > "I think there is a fundamental disconnect ...." Smiles AND at the same time! I'm not clear-sure how two people can be SO RIGHT, yet not! LOL I'll try again. But, first, FWIW (odds are NOT much) no I don't plan on (LOL don't WANT) kids playing in the whirlpool as if it's an outdoor swimming pool. It isn't! No, it's NOT a hot tub so it's unlikely more than one (possible at least in my dreams) that adult will be using it at the same time. OKAY, given it's location, given that I could use (granted NOT very efficient, practical, NOR affordable the whirlpool tub for knee - leg - foot therapy. Since there is NO seat built in (yup, it's a whirlpool tub) if I want to do therapy on my foot, leg, and/or knee I need a place to sit. True, I only need ONE place to sit. NO, while I'm NOT small, I'm NOT SOOOO big I'd take up ALL THREE sides of the tub! LOL But, given that there is space between the tub and existing walls on 3 sides and I didn't think up - of anything to do with - use the space for, I figured I'd make a platform on three sides. The narrowest (opposite the full wall side, will for ease of access, provide space for the faucets & spigot since the existing water lines are on the drain end of the tub, BUT one would have to 'climb' (ok, for younger folk 'step') in the tub to turn the water ON/OFF. Back to what I hoped to obtain answers to in my original post. In my dictionary - definitions there is a distinct and IMPORTANT difference between: Waterproof - sealed AND Water resistant - MORE likely than not to drain to-into the tub. So based on the understanding I simply want to have a place to sit (okay, several places = at least two) and that if water were to get on any of the sides surely everyone agrees it's better the water (no matter how little/much return to the tub vs. end up on the floor. So, rather than have ONE flat sloped plane (Hardie board under ceramic tile [nixed using FGP] how can/should one create complex slopes in/on the Hardie board which would be replicated with ceramic tile? I know the Hardie board can be cut and shims placed creating a slope(s), but not having done that before, I still would APPRECIATE suggestions - guidance irrespective of / if a free standing tub is involved. I'll MAKE SURE to return to this forum rather than trust Gardenweb, the Internet, my ISP, and SPAM filter to notify me when the requested info is posted. THANKS, be WELL, 'n be **SAFE!** MsRobinA

John, I see you've already answered, but while I was waiting I did a search and see basically the same reply every time the question is asked. You mention "first few weeks" and "first few moons", but how long are you actually talking about? And Steve (Brooklyndecks), if you're out there, why do you not use an adhesive? I'm really confused, because we have three professionals offering contradictory information. ___________________________________________________ Posted by John_Hyatt (My Page) on Fri, Jul 30, 04 at 17:21 Bill, with the clips the info you get tells you to use counstruction adhesive,thats because its heavy bodied and makes up for the space the clips leave inbetween the joists and for uneven pt framing,its not going to help as far as fastining the decking to the frame or with any movement in the frame or with movement in the decking. John  Posted by John_Hyatt (My Page) on Sun, Jan 4, 04 at 19:05 Hey guys,,,ventalation is a must for any decking material, and vastley over looked,,we use screen vents for cross ventlation,,on the clips,,they dont really fasten the decking to the joice,,thats why the co calls for counstruction adhesive underneath,,to make up for uneven or warped joice,,not for holding power,,using them is a gamble,sometimes they work,,but when they dont as in the wood shrinking or warping causing the clips to pop out of the slot,,you just spent all that time and money for nothing and you end up going back and face fasting and even when they do work the clip and the screw still show and the gap needed is a little much,,which brings us to the bottom line best way to fasten any decking,,face fasten,,if you dont want the screws to show pre drill twice and install plugs,,a lot of sanding true,,but it always works,, I have several 1x6 T & G Ipe decks out,,no screws showing this way at all,,two of them worked there way out of the grove,,5 of them dident,,George ( east teak ) an I still havent found out why some work and some dont,,one of his was 14' off the ground and went crazy,,I have several porches with 1x4 t&g ipe out with the normal 2'' off the slab, hardley any ventlation at all,,doing fine after 3 years or so,,so now you know almost everything I do,,using the clips with 3/4 material is twice the gamble as using 1'' or 11/2'' material, this is what I have seen over the 10 years or so I have been puting down Ipe,,,John Hyatt deckmastersllc.com  Posted by john_hyatt (My Page) on Tue, Oct 17, 06 at 18:11 Moisture Barrier 101, Class trun off all devices you brought with you the ipods,lap tops,cell phones and all the stupid time wasting things you have in those purple back packs I am only going to say this one time and one time only. Pick it up now or fail the Course Ipe is moisture cranky in the first few important weeks because>>> the preasure treated lumber has a lot of water in it from the treatment plant,add to this its mostly yellow pine that is movement prone in the sun anyway and really open grain thats why they use it to pump all that copper and water into it. If a person seals the ipe on all four sides,or pre treats at all...A during construstion its going to get really beat up..B the wood will be hampered in its breathing,remember when you started this class?? thats right wood has to breath...Martha Zolinkisi!!! get that plug out of your ear!!!! you think I cant see that??? another bump and run like that and your headed back to the shop clean up!! Lets start up with those two givens,,using construston adhesive on the joists helps leval out uneaven framing that is the norm with pt lumber,it adds a little hold down power,and protects the ipe from the fast escaping water in the first few important weeks or moons while at the same time lets the ipe take a breath when it has to. This combined with cross vintalation in the skirting gives this high dollor and most execlent material the respect it has coming.Doing all we can to keep it from cupping and buckling. All you young people are the Furture of Construstion, I am proud of every one of you,That includes you Martha, The big test is next week,ride hard, ride safe,stay away from the high side,and Get Er Done!!! John  Posted by John_Hyatt (My Page) on Wed, May 18, 05 at 7:44 With 20' long material I need two guys to help,use a short piece of the material to tap the decking together, we also cut a little 1/2'' slot in the toungue every 3' or so it wont show if your carefull. If your project is low to the ground its a good idea to use counstruction adhesive on the joists, not for glueing power but to protect the ipe from the water in the green preasure treated in the first few important weeks, one contractor I know in Little Rock used black duct tape. Screw every joist.With T&G material 1x4 and 1x6 are the same just depends on the look you want and the 1x4 will use more screws and take longer. John  Posted by brooklyndecks (My Page) on Tue, Oct 17, 06 at 15:18 Birgit, No, I don't use adhesive as a moisture barrier. JH does that. I used to paint the joist tops black, so you don't see them in the gaps. why do you/I need a moisture barrier? I have sealed the bottom of my Ipe boards, but I usually don't. If I was building my own deck, I would seal the bottom and sides...but I do this for a living, and there aren't enough hours or dollars to do that. It's not that important, or I would do it. There is a downside to pre- sealing...having to handle oily boards. that's really the reason that I don't do it. steve

Hi midwestmama and Kelly The folks at Libart are really great. When I first called them I said I was in the investigative phase and would not be in need of a unit for a few years. I was only asking for price and tech info at that time and did not wish to be hounded by anyone. They honored that for nearly a year until they had a unit "come back" to the factory. The salesman remembered me and called to see if I would be interested in the unit as it was now half price. Original owner backed out after paying 50% so all I needed to do was come up w/ the other 50%. Our unit full price would have been $105K. In order to preserve the warranty, you need to allow them to install. Our installer was AMAZING! If you go ahead w/ Libart you must insist on Bill Robinson from WIT out of Metro DC. He travels all over and does an incredible job. The cost was $11K and worth every penny. He and his crew worked for over 40 hours over 3 days to finish the job. They left NOTHING behind as far as trash; he took it all w/ him back to DC! He even refused a tip and worked thru meals that I made for the crew. Imagine eating pizza made at 6 pm finally at midnight after being on the job since 7 am?! Did I mention they installed the week before Thanksgiving when it was dark by 5 pm and below freezing every day? Anyway... our pool measures 20'X38' and we have at least 5' of decking b/ the pool edge and the building all the war around. Kelly: thanks for the info on the air heater. I actually spoke to the Libart pres the other day and he told me to get the same type of heater. Said he would put me in touch w/ a guy in Canada who would walk us thru the install when we were ready. I'm hoping to find a ventless Hot Dogg; are they truly ventless or should I buy a vent kit? FYI: the kids and I swam today after decorating for Halloween; pool temp a balmy 86, air temp not bad at around 70 w/ no sun and no other heat source other than the water! No need for a fog machine; gets nice and foggy all on it's own w/ the temp difference! Having our 1st annual Halloween pool party tomorrow; looking forward to more warm water and a lot of fun!! Happy Halloween! Joanne