They are both great cherries. Lapins is a self Polinator and black gold isnt.

Black Gold is self fertile. I have it. Very precocious and productive. Fruit in 3rd year. Taste fine but texture is soft, not crunchy/firm like Bing.

Not sure how sweet cherry will do in your hotter and more humid climate. I'm in New England.

Growing cherries in hot, humid climate is risky. Problems are canker, cherry leave spot, cracking, rot, and birds.

Good call. Brain fart concerning black gold. I have one on order. Hate to hear it's not firm :( a lot of the literature and advertising made it out to be a super cherry. I bought a 4-in-1 cherry so hopefully the other 3 varieties are more firm. I don't really care for soft cherries.

If you think of firm with Bing in mind, BG is not firm. It is not mushy, though. I mentioned it a few times that I want to grow fruit that taste better than store-bought. Sweet cherry isnot one of them. I love Bing and Rainier for its taste and texture. BG does not come close.

I love everything else I grow, apple, peach, pear, plum. They all taste better than store-bought. I just planted Big Star cherry last year. I have already decided to give it to my friend who has a bigger yard than me. I will save that space for something else more interesting instead.

Cherries are pretty much my daughters favorite fruit or even food for that matter. We buy cherries from the store and they are super expensive. I always try to purchase hard firm cherries. I made an inquiry to my local extension office and was given the contact for a leading horticulturalist in my town and had a nice in depth descending with her. She recommended Lapins cherries to me based on the firm hard criteria I was looking for. She also mentioned Black and white gold as good selections. So I bit the bullet and chose a 4-1 on G5 rootstock. The varieties were lapins, early burlat, montmorancy, and emperor francis. And I bought a seperate black gold. Maybe I should've done more research.

I am interested in the cherry called Ulster. I am curious if somebody have an experience with it. It is supposed to be Bing-like, firm and crack resistant. Here is the link:

http://ediblelandscaping.com/products/trees/CherriesSweet/UlsterSweetCherry.php

another one:

http://www.grandpasorchard.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=trees.plantDetail&plant_id=214

I've been researching this, too, as cherries are my absolute favorite and so expensive, yes. It sounds like you chose great ones for sweet cherries. I think the thing is just that sweet cherries aren't the best choice for us, compared to the tarts. I'm trying them, too, though ;)

I'm growing more of the sours or the [sweet x tart] hybrid crosses to be safe. None of mine are old enough to bear, so I don't know how any of them are for fruit here yet.

Thank you for the productive discussion so far.
@Mamuang - Yes I do agree it may be a bit of a risk growing cherries in my area. After all the research I did, however, most sights say that cherries will grow in my area and lowes sells Lapins cherry trees in their nursery. Now, i don't know if that's just marketing on their end or because they have information that would suggest the trees will do well in this area. But this coupled with Starkbros website that suggest that the trees will do well in my area (I have since learned that some ppl have dubious encounters with Starkbros) made me believe that it just might be possible to get cherries cheaper than the grocery store. I looked up the BG because from what i understand it would be more tolerant of this area.

Having said all that, its all speculation on my end :P I will likely learn the hard way after much sweat equity if cherries will in fact make it here or not. I may start a grow journal with the sweetheart cherry.

@Speedster1 - I agree with you on the BG marketing being a super cherry. Thats why I paused on picking up a Lapins at my local Lowes store. I started second guessing if BG would be better than Lapins. Like you, Im not much for soft mushy cherries but I dont want crunchy cherries either lol. I want a semi-firm i guess???

@Meredith - Im happy to hear that im not the only one who refuses to accept "your just outta luck, kid" for our area concerning sweet cherries. Im in the Charlotte area, what kind of cherries or other fruits are you growing? Currently I have 2 Redhaven , 1 Hale-Haven, and 1 "Sugar Princess" peach tree, 1 Sweetheart "Starkcrimson" cherry tree, two NC High-Bush Blue Berries and 4 Honey Berry bushes.

Canker is present in the NC area so there is nothing I can do about that other than anti-fungle sprays to help prevent growth.

Birds are not really that big of an issue. Ill just get some bird netting and a water gun :D

I am concerned with rot the most due to having a tight clay based soild ( i did a mason jar water test its about 20-25% clay.) So i did the best i could do and i used my tiller dug a large but shallow hole and then back filled the area into a mound and made a shallow drain channel away from the tree hoping the drainage will help keep the roots moist but not wet.

Anyhow Ty for the input so far. If anyone else has ideas of what I should be looking into for this area ill be more than appreciative if you can give me some insights that i may not have already had or just the friendly conversation :D

Growing, I hope I do not come across as pessimistic. I just want to share my experience with you, a cautionary tale. I am glad to hear that you have done your research. You never know if you do not try.

As for buying from Lowe, the most common issue is getting mislabelled variety. Lowe, Home Depot or even local nurseries do not always sell fruit trees that can grow well in your area. They sell what they think is popular.

They sell Bing in MA where I live. Bing grows successfully in the Northwest. Almost everyone loves Bing. So they sell this trees in the East coast, too.

If you check Scott Smith post, it could give you more idea. I wish you luck.

NCSU doesn't even make any recommendations for cherries... they say they may work in some areas, not others. Tart/pie types probably your best bet. Sweet cherries...pretty iffy; they don't even work here in my z6.

I would call Black Gold plenty crunchy. Its not like an apple but its not soft like a sour cherry. It my favorite dark cherry in terms of reliability and taste.

I'm in z7 and once I got in the groove I have done pretty well with sweet cherries. They prefer if they can skip the hottest sun of the day as they are from a colder climate. You can count on some cracking, I think a third of my Black Golds cracked this year. Watch out for any signs of canker, I prune it out as soon as I see it and have not lost a tree so far. Also watch for these nasty black aphids, they curl the leaves and can be really hard to get rid of.

Scott

Scott,

My BG was soft to me but I do not have sour cherry to compare yet. I let it hung very late and lost more than half to rot. I like crunch in cherries. That why It somewhat disappointed me. I got 2lbs of them last year.

Glad you mentioned aphids. What a pain. It starts early and often.

Thank you all for the continued discussion and insights,
@Mamuang - I do not take you as a pessimist, I am glad that you have been able to provide me with your experience and knowledge of the tree variety. I do understand it may be an uphill battle (im just too stubborn to accept that I cant grow em :P)

@ Scott im glad to hear that you are able to get them to grow in your area, I unfortunately am on the border of South Carolina which i suppose depending on the year and the weather im between 7B and 8A. I have my fingers grossed that I can keep the tree pampered enough that it will give me lots of cherries.. Of which I plan to horde all to myself.. the birds can have the blue berries lol :P

@Lucky- Yea I agree, Iffy is sugar coating it - thank you for being nice :P, but my cherry appetite leads me to believe that I can challenge, nay defy the facts and grow a healthy cherry tree. Also, considering its one tree at 20 bucks versus an orchard costing lots of money i can afford the risky gamble in the hopes of a large pay off :D

Worst case scenario... assuming things don't look good down here, maybe I can send the scion to one of you guys in a more manageable climate in exchange for some of the cherries :P

Grow,

I admire your tenacity. My BG ripens around early July but I will be on vacation then. Otherwise, I would send some to you. I really like your attitude. Maybe, next year.

I take pride in being able to grow fruit trees and am happy to share them with my friends and neighbors. My friends love me (for my fruit, of course).

GG,
I'm all about pushing the envelope and trying to grow stuff that folks say 'won't work there'...go for it.

I don't know if this helps --again as I haven't had fruit yet-- but my cherries are planted on mounded soil that I mixed with a lot of sand (be careful with doing that if you have certain types of clay!). But my clay here near W-S is a sandy gneiss-based clay to start with. So I mixed in sand and spagnum moss, along with some compost and manure (and lime, here), yet left enough native soil that the roots can easily transition to the real soil deep down when the time comes. That soil drains fine to start with, but the mounds make me feel even safer for when the trees are small like I buy them :)

They are all growing well, anyway! I've only had PM on my Kansas Sweet, when not spraying yet, mind you. Not bad at all for my yard!

I also grow apricots, peaches, pears, a plum, filberts, an almond (may not get nuts often here, lol), figs, a dwarf mulberry, and paw paws for trees. Then lots of berries, too! The berries are the easiest by far, and my favorite along with cherries to eat :D

The previous post is how I have my sweetheart cherry planted. I used my tiller and dug a shallow saucer like hole (maybe 8 inch at the center/deepest) on a slight elevation on my property with a south facing slope - Granted the slope is only about a foot at most. Im hoping that the slope will help with cold air and water drainage. I used the native clay loam soil i tilled out of the hole, and I mounded it all in the middle and then mulched it. The mound is a solid 2-3 foot wide (i haven't really measured :P) and about a foot high. Dont mind the spotty fencing at the moment.. I have dogs - one in particular that if she could get to the whip, she would uproot it and chew it like a toy. I plan on putting a more aesthetically appealing border up. This was just put up to keep her naught puppy teeth off my new tree :P

The first two pictures are more about how its planted. The third is just me being happy it survived dormancy and is starting to branch out.

@ Mamuang - No, no deer. I do have a pesky rabbit that comes buy during the summer. I didn't think he would go after the tree but i guess Ill have to invest in some trunk guard products. I have researched the pruning styles. From what I can tell they have pruned this to a central leader. It is on Kyrmsk 5 dwarfing root stock so it shouldn't get much bigger than 8-10 ft. I was considering letting it do its thing for the first year and get established and then head it off and do an open vase with it, however, I can not seem to find the reason I should do this over any other. From what I can tell its more about style than it is of benefit to the cherry tree. If you have any insights regarding the techniques it'd be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and regarding the fence... No that one in particular temporary. It wasnt meant to keep anything other than my puppy from gnawing on the tree, let alone running around the yard with the whole whip she so proudly dug up.... the stinker loves to uproot and chew on my bamboo. I am planning on getting a nicer fencing around the tree to keep the mound from being compacted as well as prevent the unsavory from chewing - be it rabbit, vole, or puppy :P

I still learn about pruning but my view on pruning my fruit trees is heavily influenced by my desire to keep them short, let the sun light in a lot (open center esp for stone fruit), ease of care - spraying, netting, etc.

I sacrifice the aesthetic look of the tree (and the maximum yield) for the convenience. It's really your call.

I use the KGB method for pruning cherry trees myself.

KGB

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/wasco/sites/default/files/kgb_training_system.pdf

I chose open-center for my cherries, too, except for the bush Carmine Jewel. I did it for sun, mostly. I have spots in the yard that are cooler because of when they get some shade, so I planted the cherries there. But then I figured I'd need to make sure they got all the sun they could get for light in those spots at the same time, so I'm keeping them pruned open.

I also would rather them be wide and not too tall, and I can picture that better with open-vase pruning.

@Mamuang - Yes, Im still learning myself. I have a book that talks about it but i still cant see a huge benefit of one over the other. For the most part it seems like preferences with a slight benefit in one direction or the other. From what I gather Central leader will look better and is a more natural path for the tree that will yield more fruit, The open vase will allow better air and light penetration to the fruits and leaves and like you stated allows you to keep a tree at a certain height. But for one you need a latter and for the other you may not be as happy with the way it looks.

@Drew - Ty for that link. I did watch a video on this prior to ordering and i must say im still a little confused by what they are trying to accomplish... not to mention that tree looks God-Awful lol. From my understanding it does boost productivity but you are sacrificing all aesthetic appeal.

@ Meredith - I agree wider would be preferable to taller, but with it being a dwarf tree I dont think 8-ft is too tall... but then again... 10 foot wide by 6ft tall would be better :D

Now that I think about it. I may choose an Open center and a modified central leader for the cherry but modify both processes. From that video I watched on the KGB style (I fi can find it again ill link it) one of the guys said that they discovered that by allowing one branch to be more vertical that the branches below it had a tendency to choose a more horizontal growth pattern. I'm thinking since I'm starting with a new whip I may just let the central leader grow as it is and top work it during the summer, while i establish my framework for Open Center. My goal is to keep it visually appealing but I want the tree to be wider than I want it taller 10ft wide by 6ft tall :D. I know it will take me more time and longer to get cherries but I think I want a healthy tree that can afford to grow cherries than rush the process and not get anything but firewood :P

They are trying to accomplish many things. I do find your statement strange
as I thought it was very clear. They want to increase production, reduce labor
hours, and decrease risk of injury. Considering I grow many plants, 20-30 other
fruits, this works for me as my time in the garden in valuable and limited. I
have other crops to attend and need to be as efficient as possible. Another plus
is how easy this pruning system is to learn. To me these look fantastic pruned
in this style.

I'm also into edible landscapes, weeping mulberries or plums, double
flowering peaches, contorted mulberries, hazel nuts, jujube, and quince are
plants used for ornamental reasons, not sweet cherry trees. Also say service
berries like Autumn Brilliance or variegated plants like Cornus mas or the
variegated elderberries. These plants I use for looks and fruit.

You have to prune cherries no matter what if you do not your tree will be
short lived. How you prune is up to you.

. If you do not prune at all your tree will be 15 feet tall or higher. Don't
buy into the hype. Nobody told the tree it's supposed to stay small.

I think when they say 8-10 feet they mean easily maintained at that height,
It will grow more than that on these dwarf rootstocks. Pruning more determines
height than anything else. I would never choose a rootstock for height, but more
for area adaptability. I will control height no matter what rootstock. Note on
the video they mention you can use any rootstock with the system. You can use any system, many work well, that is up to you.

@ Drew I do apologize if i was unclear. The video I watched on KGB was not the one you linked. It was prior to this conversation. I havent had a chance to set down and read/digest the link you sent. I plan on doing that this weekend with my down time :D Sorry for any confusion.

Grow,

Someone said to me one time that he did not want to grow cherry tree for birds. I agreed with him and went with open center. All my trees are open center. After a while, I getd use to the shape of my trees. Beauty is in the eye of a beholder!!!

To each, his/her own, so go for what most appeals to you.