Nope, plug it up and go,

Just so long as you realize the implications of doing so.

You may not pass a building inspection, and you may be putting your homeowners insurance at risk.

I have done just what you describe with an induction cooktop. It's a good idea to talk to the techs at the service company that does repairs for your maker. I did that and they gave me some good advice, plus they're primed in case I ever need them.

I was ready to face an issue with the Hz, but was told by the techs that the only issue would be with the clock. When the unit arrived, it announced it was actually for 50/60, so no troubles. I did get it from England, however, which has different wiring than North America, and I got a translation from some GW people who had self imported before that my electrician understood and made work correctly.

What you do need to know is that while their inspections are as good or better than ours, being of a standard to qualify for UL listing is not the same thing as having UL listing. There are things you have to check. Make sure your building and safety inspectors don't require UL, and get it in writing from your insurance company. My insurance said that it would be fine if it was installed by a licensed electrician. If you have an HOA they might have a say too.

I had to pay duty, but my unit was light enough to go by FedEx, and they handled all the paperwork for a $5 fee (five years ago--I don't know if the fee has changed). Considering that they had a different pricing scale in Europe, I'm confident that even with the duty and shipping, I paid less than I would have if the unit were available locally. Local is best, of course, because you have the store to look after you, etc. There was a small dent to the trim of my unit which I would have found unacceptable from a store at top dollar, but after the whole rigamarole of obtaining the cooktop, was too minor to fuss over. It's just a small hassle saying to every professional who has stood near it that I know it's there and they will not be blamed for it. :)

May I inquire what you're getting?

For induction lovers, its too bad that we don't get the range of induction units here that they do in Europe. There are quite a few 'freedom' type units there (almost every manufacturer has at least one) and they're relatively inexpensive compared to what we can get. Pretty neat usability too, unlike the cumbersome Thermador freedom.

I'd order one from Europe, but I'm worried about service for such a sophisticated ball of electronics.

Pillog, thank you! I was hoping you'd reply.

I'm ordering Bosch domino units from Germany, where I have family. It would be more daunting if I had a language barrier and (much) more expensive if I didn't already have go-to online retailers I trust. The Euro is so weak that the prices justify shipping.. The UK is more expensive, but more convenient.

In the Internet Age, all the manuals are easy to download in English on the Bosch Partner site and all are dual-rated 50/ 60hz. I know they'll work... I just can't figure out the UL requirements in my local code...

As you experienced, the biggest risk is that trim is damaged in-route. That said, with 3 kids in the house, nothing stays pristine around here very long :)

I ordered a 12" flex induction and gas wok module. I'd like to get a lava grill and 24" flex induction, but I don't want to order more until I'm sure I can get them installed. I have a Gaggenau oven and a Thermador vent hood. I wanted the flexibility of modules, but didn't want to cobble together a Frankenkitchen to make the space work.

I've owned Bosch Induction before and trust the quality... If there was a problem, I'm confident that 90% of the parts are the same as US parts or can be ordered.

In Germany, Bosch seems to be seen as a "low end" brand to not only Gagg & Thermador but also Siemens and Neff so prices are very competitive. They make a lot of quality models for smaller spaces.

Honestly, if it breaks and major parts arent unavailable, that's OK. Between the weak Euro, discounted prices, and inflated American MSRPs for induction, I could replace my unit with another from Europe for about the cost of a big service call on a domestic unit. Perfect world, they'll last at least until manufacturers make more choices available on the U.S. market.

Anyway, how does one figure out if the UL listing is required locally? Id like to research that myself so I can have an intelligent conversation about it with my electrician, who, no doubt, would prefer if I just bought something locally like everybody else :)

Im overseeing the remodel, so I have to wear my General Contractor hat on this and come armed with information. Some subcontractors routinely say "No" instead of "I don't know." when asked to look beyond their comfort zones.

I appreciate your advice! Please keep it coming!

If you ordered from Germany, the local Bosch repair might be able to advise you on translating the wiring. My Gaggenau guys did, but didn't know how to do the English kind.

Do you know any general contractors in your code enforcement zone, who do high end? Maybe you could make dinner for one, or take him/her out, in exchange for the info on the UL? Alternatively, maybe you can get a friend to go down to the building department and ask. It's better not to ask directly until you're sure you know what you're going to do, because even if it might be allowable on the books, they might say no, and once they've said no, getting a yes is a lot harder. You can also check to see if the code is available online and read through everything regarding appliances yourself. If you find what you think is a yes, or a lack of a no, print out the relevant sections. Then ask referencing those passages.

I warn you, however, that you're probably going to be under much greater scrutiny running the job yourself. When the inspectors and B&S office know your GC, and know that he/she doesn't cut corners or do weird, unsafe crap, they're much more liable to give things a pass. You might consider hiring a certified appliance installer as well as your electrician, and make sure that they're the ones dealing with the inspectors. Have your print outs as backups in case. An inspection is likely to go one of two ways: Either the inspector will look, if anything, that there's proper clearance, and that the junction box is in the right place, and move on, or s/he'll be interested in the unusual appliances, query where you bought them, and then start looking for the UL rating. That's when you need to interrupt the suspicion with your CE rating and flexible portions of the building code. Even so, however, it might say on the inspector's check sheet that it has to be UL even if it doesn't say it in the code, or something like that. UL is inspected. I left all that stuff up to my GC. Having the electrician there at the time of inspection is essential.

Keep in mind that some inspectors just want to throw their weight around because they can. Be as sweet and conciliatory as you can.

The units sound great. I'm sure they'll do very well, if you're able to install them. :)

Thx. Good advice! Yes, the goal is to avoid "no."

This is a relatively small remodel, not new construction, and we aren't doing any exterior work. I'm told my inspector is "easy to work with," on interior remodels so I'm optimistic that it will be fine. Sounds like our overworked inspector is pretty busy with much bigger fish than me.

Overall, the project isn't that big... New Cabinets (my cousin is a cabinet builder) and new appliances, no framing, changes to plumbing/footprint, etc..

I did a major kitchen remodel 3 years ago with Henrybuilt & all Gaggenau... That one pushed me over the high-end learning curve. This project is cake, particularly since my "guys" are family.

In that jurisdiction (in ruralish Oklahoma) we didn't have to pull permits for interior remodels at all.

"Flexinduction" cooktops are available (shipped) from Europe for about $500, which makes it worth the trouble/risk. If it works, I'm super-psyched. If not, I'm not out a fortune...

Excellent pricing, of course. Just make sure you find out if the no UL is okay with your local code. Avoiding no is fine if you're skirting opinion, but it's much better to stay within the law, especailly if there's every a problem. If the wok catches fire, you don't want them saying it's because of the UL listing when you know it was because you spilled the oil. That's also why it's important to have the letter from your homeowner's insurance company.

The insurance people will likely be tougher to sell than code guys.

panchoandlefty,

would you be willing to share the names of your online retailers in Germany? Inspired by pillog, we are also thinking about importing the 24 inch Bosch flexinduction from Germany. My husband speaks fluent German so communication is not an issue but we don't have connections to know which retailers are the most reputable from which to buy. Fyi, prices seem lower in Germany than in the UK.

There are to sizes of flexinduction modules as far a I can tell. The smaller one (20 cm wide) is used in the US 36 inch Bosch Benchmark cooktop and German 30cm cooktop. The larger one (24 cm wide) seems to be used in the US 30 inch Bosch Bemchmark and German 60 cm cooktops. So, it should be possible to get some replacement parts in the US.

LWO, that wasn't my experience. My insurance company, knowing the brand, just wanted to be sure it was installed by a licensed electrician.

Re locations, the big issue with the retailers is that many have very restrictive sales areas. The best price for mine was in Spain, and my Spanish is good enough, next best was France, ditto, but they were restricted by their regional agreements. England was the highest price, but the brand was only sold through high end kitchen showrooms there, so finding someone who would sell to me just too diligence. Then it was just a matter of whether it was worth the rep's bother. Germany is probably the easiest, so you're both lucky with your contacts and language abilities.

This is long, but has a lot of detail. I hope it helps--

Importing big stuff isn't for the faint at heart. If I was buying Gaggenau (or pushing my comfort zone) I'd probably use a group like Importappliances.com or buy from someplace in the UK, with no language barrier and an American-ish idea of customer service.

If you have basic (and I mean VERY basic) German skills, my favorite site is… wait for it… Amazon… I've imported many things from them, from trash cans to appliances. Just type "Amazon.de" instead of .com in your browser. Your login is the same as your US login. Expedited 2 day shipping is a manageable up charge on accessories/parts. German Amazon has better kitchen stuff than British Amazon, by the way.

I will say that the German site has weird "typos," so you want to make sure the item number matches the picture/discription before finalizing an order. For example, on Amazon.de, the Bosch Domino Lava-Grill (PKU375N14E) is listed. If you search for the grill, you'll get a picture of a 12" induction cooktop, and the product title-- Bosch "Warmeschublade." Unless you have good enough language skills to figure out which one is being sold, you might end up with something unexpected. I always double-check item numbers w the manufacturer.

The only problems I have ever had is with packaging coming open in transit. Clearly, this is a bigger problem with a cooktop than a trash-can. UPS is pretty good, but inspect the item before accepting. I've never had to deal with a big return, but the process is the same as in the US.

If you use Google Chrome, it can automatically translate the pages. The format is so similar that you can generally navigate, even without translation. The basic keywords to search w/o translation are "Induktions Kochfeld" (Induction Cooktop). Usually, searching in English works. 60cm = 24 inches… figure up or down from there.

On the right side of the Amazon.de website, where you do filters like Prime, click the button for "AmazonGlobal Bestellbar" this means it is available to ship internationally, with minimal fuss. If you are lucky, you'll find something sold directly by Amazon, as they will subtract VAT, calculate reasonable shipping (including 2-3 day for a minimal up-charge!), and "pre-charge" duties. Basically, if you can get something from them, it is as easy as buying from them in the US.

You can also filter by brand. Personally, I agree with Pillog that if you stick to brands sold in the US, you minimize potential issues… Some brands like AEG (Electrolux) have so many options for a low price that it is tempting. That said, a lot of brands (like Bosch) won't let Amazon sell to the US for obvious reasons. If Amazon doesn't ship to the US, under the product description, it says:

Leider kann dieser Artikel nicht in die Vereinigten Staaten versendet werden

However, under that, you can choose other Marketplace sellers besides Amazon. If there are other sellers, below the Amazon pricing, it usually says something like: "16 neu ab EUR 659,85" just like on the American site where it says "16 new from $659."

If you click that, you'll get a list of several sellers. If the individual Marketplace retailers ship internationally (some do, some don't), it says: "Internationale und Inlandsversandkosten." If they only sell in Germany, it just says "Inlandsversandkosten." Add the item to your cart and go through the checkout process (without finalizing) to see shipping costs.

If buying from Marketplace sellers, I look at feedback and go to their "normal" online store before buying through Amazon. You can always ask questions. If you write in English, 99% of the time, they can translate and reply. Thank them for that! Many Germans speak some English, and are happy to do so, but are annoyed that Americans ASSUME they speak English. If you thank them for the effort, they soften up.

Make sure to figure out customs duties-- only Amazon (direct) calculates that in checkout. Also, you shouldn't have to pay the VAT (which is usually included in list prices) if the item is leaving the EU, but some sellers don't deduct it (or give you the paperwork for a refund.) I consider that a "red-flag" for shifty (or unsophisticated) sellers since they won't have to pay the VAT on their end. Depending on the country, the VAT can be over 20% so its a significant amount, often covering a good bit of shipping and customs costs.

Another option for purchases is http://www.importappliances.com. I've never used them, but they look legit. Their prices are higher, but still MUCH less than USA and they can provide the kind of hand-holding that is reassuring. Most induction cooktops seem to be under 1000 EUR (about $1100 USD) My guess is that their business model is to buy appliances in Brussels (where they are based) for normal retail, then simply forward to customers in the North America and Australia. Their site is a good place for research, as they have downloads of product specs, etc.

You can also get specs, installation guides, manuals, etc in English on the manufacturers European websites. Just go to the regular website and change your country. I know Bosch allows you to choose English as a default language, even on their German site, which is nice. Again, Google Chrome will translate…

Generally, the European economies are hurting, so they are happy to "go the extra kilometer" to close an international sale. Still, be aware that Continental Europe has a different attitude about customer service than what we are used to in the US… Its a running joke that in Germany, "customer satisfaction" means that you should be satisfied that they allow you to be a customer… They are wonderful before a sale and will answer all sorts of questions, but if you are asking questions, it is assumed you are a serious buyer, not just "kicking tires." After the sale, they are polite & helpful, but the American expectation that they can return things "no questions asked" for cash refunds isn't the norm.

Anyhoo, hope this helps.

Yes, that's a great help. Thank you. My general experience with amazon.{com,fr,de,uk} from when I lived in the Netherlands (where there is no amazon) is that it's easy to order books from any of these with international shipping, but not permitted to order any kind of electronics (at least directly from amazon) with international shipping. I have never looked into marketplace sellers on amazon.de. I had assumed the same rules applied but perhaps not. That is a good suggestion. I was considering buying the cooktop while I am in Germany this summer, but if it is just as easy to order from here, I would rather spend my limited time there doing other things. However, it might be fun to peruse an appliance store.....

Thanks all for this information. I am interested in purchasing the Siemens iQ700 Glass Downdraft Extractor that is listed as 220/240v - 50;60hz.

Ive emailed Siemens support is several EU countries and they respond the device can accept 60hz (needed in USA).

This specific appliance is not listed on amazon.de . but can be purchased through the other source listed above which we plan to do soon.

Electrical inspection in the USA is intended to determine whether the wiring conforms to NFPA 70, the National Electrical Code. The Code requires, inter alia, that electrical parts used are intended for the purpose that they are used for. UL determines for the manufacturers whether the intended purpose can be met safely.

Beyond wiring devices, the UL determines for appliances that they are safe when used as specified by their installation guides. Very likely UL and the manufacturers coordinate in determining such things as distances to combustibles. One specific area that may not be obvious to homeowners is that range and cooktop wiring typically uses high temperature rated conductors which in turn require at least that temperature rating on any connectors used to connect to (lower temperature rated) household wiring.

Downdraft is less effective than an overhead. If works better with induction than gas.