I think it will be beautiful. I have taken black, plastic, 4 sided, large flower pots (not square) top is bigger than bottom. Drilled a 2' hole in each side so the fish can swim in and out and attached legs made of white pvc pipe at what ever height you want for a plant shelf. The pvc legs are attached in a squared 'U' shape with 2 elbows. So with 2 sets of 'U' legs inside each pot, zip tied in place you have a pot shelf and you can make it any height you want and set it anywhere in the pond as long as the bottom is level. I added the less than 45 degree elbows with short lengths of pvc to make the legs broader at the base. I tried to find a picture but could not. I know I saw it somewhere on the net.

Hi

Will the city where you live allow such thinking out of the "box" ?? lol Assume from the background you live in a warm climate so no nasty snow and ice ?? There are several types of tropical water lilys than only like but need deep water as well as large surfaces. There are also floating plants as well as "islands " that you can construct. to include many types of tropical terrestrials. Are you thinking of koi?? they would certainly appreciate such deep water but are murder on plants

I certainly wouldn't put soil on the bottom way too difficult to clean besides in general most water plants are invasive so need some type of control

Anyway good luck with your idea sounds fantastic!! gary

No experience with ponds this size but just have the following suggestions - look into what chemical residue may be left and whether toxic to fish, be careful what you use to clean (even small quantities of soap residue can be toxic to fish). A truckload of vinegar and baking soda may be your best bet!

Can you attach brackets to sides of pond for shelves using those masonry bolt things? Cant wait to see your progress!

Oh one other piece of advice - try to get adequately sized pump and filter from the get go for adqueate water circulation/ filtration (get professional advice -don't go by manufacturers recommendation or garden center staff who don't know anything). And what about bottom drain - is there one there already? Or get a retrofit drain type thing that gets placed at the bottom of pond and pulls the dirtier water up from the bottom.

fankielynnsie, garyfla_gw and kashka_kat:

Thanks for your help and encouragement.

I should have added that I am in the Valley of the Sun, Arizona, Zone 9a.

fankielynnsie: I didn't think of making plant holders with pvc pipe legs; a great idea, thanks!

kashka_kat: That's the sort of idea I had in mind but anchoring the shelves into the dirt outside the pond; I don't want to drill into the walls. A good suggestion.

Gary, do you have any lily suggestions in mind for the deep end (about 5'6"). I know I could start them around two feet and gradually lower them, but I was hoping to start with something a bit deeper than two feet - it could take years to acclimate them to the full bottom.

Islands are something I toyed with but couldn't find much about it on the web. Any more info you could provide would be great.

It was a salt water pond and I believe it is pretty much chemical free but I won't be adding expensive fish to the pond.

I have sealed the bottom drains by unscrewing the covers and placing a bead of silicone around the edge, adding a piece of clear plastic sheet and screwing the covers back down, it seemed to work very well. The pond will be cleared and cleaned - if necessary - by pumping the water out and shoveling any sediment.

My last pond was about 1000 gals and, as with all my ponds, I throw in some dirt and rounded pebbles and allow the plants to 'do their own thing'. Actually, it was the bull rushes which eventually pierced the liner and started an uncontrollable leak. I started that pond off with 4 Walmart goldfish and ended up giving away the whole 200 plus (!) fish when I the pond. I didn't lose a single fish although s few died when placed in other ponders habitats. I am concerned that if I add the same to this 'pond' they will turn into thousands! So, fish will be a given but exactly what, I do not know at this time; again, open to suggestions - but nothing expensive or difficult to keep, please.

I have already had a setback: In the photo, you can see some plastic shelving I had added to take a fountain pump and give height to newly-introduced lilies. However, after filling half way with water, it actually floated and tipped over even though I placed a (single) concrete block on the bottom shelf. I really thought one block would do it . . . wrong!

I'll keep you updated with news and some photos, and thanks again for your valued input

Here is of shot of my previous pond. I have better ones but I can't find them at this time.

Would be pleased to see photos your efforts :-)

Steve (Queen Creek, AZ)

Wow, that's one huge WL. Sure looks pretty, though.

Koi are beautiful fish, that's for sure. I'll think about that some more first.

Some local friends have suggested bass, but I'm sure it's only because they want to come, sit and fish - and drink my beer!

With a pond that size koi would have plenty of room to dive and swim and they would do well .... or maybe farming some type of food fish? Seems like kind of a waste to have only goldfish - you gave away 200, but could you give away 2,400? LOL- have to laugh because usually on this forum I'm trying to talk someone out of getting koi because their pond is too small!

Re the cost filling in and making it 3 feet shallower - have you compared that with costs of equipment needed to manage that volume of water + electrical/water charges? Esp if you get koi - as you know they get about 2-3 feet long and produce a lot of waste that requires proper filtration. They are a lot of fun though.... your friends will probably still want to come, watch the fish and drink your beer!

Koi will, of course, multiply and, as you observe, they can create a large amount of waste so am I wary of having koi - but they are very beautiful (here I go vacillating again)

It is not my intention of spending serious cash maintaining the 'pond'. Currently, I am leaning towards having free floating plants and several plants floating in pots. Lilies are definitely on the list but are a few months away at this time. Border plants are a given.

I have put out feelers to local ponders for excess plants, etc, but have not heard back from anyone yet. Strange, but when I had excess plants and fish, I had no takers; I was dead lucky that my wife found two people willing to take all my goldfish when we closed the previous pond.

Do you personally have any recommendations regarding fish other than koi; something that won't multiply like mad and stay around the 8 - 12 inch mark?

Of course, I will have to get some serious surface cover and plant food source, first.

BTW. Did I mention that my wife thinks I'm crackers!

Hi

When I first got into "ponding " I kept mostly tropical aquarium types of fish.

My first pond w as actually a grow out tank for several types of African cichlids which I sold to local pet shops. then went through Tetras barbs various live bearers even angelfish.

For your situation might suggest some type of native fishes?? Maybe the huge Sunfish family?? Though many of these are very colorful not so much from the top l This is also true of tropical fish even the incredibly colored African cichlids almost disappear when viewed from above .

Would think that if you started with some high quality Koi you'd be able to sell the offspring?? Could imagine the pool with a black bottom would be a work of art with Koi?? lol

I keep 7 aquariums 3 water gardens and two bog gardens and my wife KNOWS I'm crazy!! (In her humble opinion at least) gary

Thanks, Gary. Yesterday I spoke for several hours to a local dealer about koi. For the amount of effort I want to put into this project, koi are out of the question. I don't want to have to deal with lads of koi fry.

Having said that; would it be possible to have just one koi (so it doesn't breed)? Would it get lonely :-)

Koi can interbreed with comet goldfish and make a hybrid. I am not sure if hybrids are sterile. I had some butterfly koi and they were so beautiful but..they grew too big quickly and they wouldn't allow any plants to grow or be undisturbed. They were also so dirty. It was hard keeping the water clear. I am happy with my goldfish-yellow, white, orange, orange and white comets, and shubunkins. And lots of blooming plants.

floating baskets: a friend told me that you can make them from PVC pipe and sturdy netting. Make a polygon (square, rectangle, whatever) of 2" PVC pipe and angle joints; cement and seal well. Use the netting (I think he mentioned a volleyball net, but that sounds too coarse to me) to create a sling/bag sort of thing inside the polygon and attach with cords.

I've used plastic feed bags and pool noodles for floating planters: fold down the edge of the feedbag until it's the height you want. Force the pool noodle into a ring inside the fold. Use fishing line and a big needle to sew the fold down. Sometimes a rock in the bottom helps stabilize it.

One more: big chunks of packing styrofoam, used for electronics and such, often have nice cavities on one side. Float that side up, add plants. I usually drape a bunch of water lettuce to hide the edges.

Were you seriously thinking of bass or any other food fish? I knew someone who was raising tilapia - not sure how easy or difficult that would be.

Like the PVC tube idea! Could make them any size I want then. I actually used some of the copper pipe foam insulating sleeves and tied/sewed it as you suggested. Mind, I did cheat by buying a couple of pond baskets to start with.

As for the bass . . . I was just thinking out loud, but I'm open to suggestions.

Any fish has to be: Easy and cheap to maintain, not breed excessively, and not eat all the other fish - or ALL the vegetation. Color would be nice and between 4 to 8 inches long (more or less). I think I might be stuck with the fast breeding, though; from what I've heard, nearly all fish do this exceedingly well.

I saw a YouTube video where they were putting bare-root plants in a floating container. One of the plants was Impatiens (Busy Lizzie). I've thrown a few into the 'float' I made. I'll keep you apprised of what happens.

Thanks for everyone's help, you are all giving me lots of ideas.

BTW. I'm not keen but I think I will have to get a net for the HUGE leaf problem I get around here. Like I said previously, I don't have a single tree in my yard.

Update:

I was going to post a few pics of the pond about two weeks after filling it with water. It turned into a short video instead. . . Oh well, if you can tolerate my accent and inane ramblings, here it is: -

Uh,ho! Its asking for a link so I have put it on YouTube and here is the link to that if you want to see the progress: http://youtu.be/EPjFaErdYKc

Thanks for your help and suggestions, Guys.

It is looking promising. Have to be patient for the plants to grow-any mints will get huge. I use mint in my biofilter and one plant fills the filter by the middle of the summer. If you put some quilt batting into the filter where the incoming water has to flow thru it, it will help remove a lot of the green. You can pull the batting out and send it thru your washing machine without soap to rinse it out and put it back into the filter as many times as needed to initially remove the bulk of the algae. Once you get out the green you can leave it in place and it will build up good bacteria to eat the ammonia and stuff in the water and keep it balanced.

As much room as you have you could have a lotus and tropical water lilies in a calmer area of your pond--on the steps in the shallow end if you have steps. Some water hyacinth would also do great, it multiplies quickly and you can keep it corralled in a hoop-I use the small hula-hoops from the Dollar Tree--just take them apart and fill ends with silicon and reinsert the plastic that joins them. It is soon overflowing the hoop. Have fun! Your pond is going to be full of life and plants in just a month or so. I am glad the humming bird has found a great place to come for a drink. Plant up some pots of things for him.

`

If you're going to have fish, it would be easier to actually use the bottom drain. It would keep it much cleaner. If you're using a sand filter on the old pool, you could modify it into a bead filter. I turned my pool into a pond but actually destroyed one wall and backfilled it a little to take it from 12000 gallons to around 8500. It can't be returned to a pool. I destroyed the bottom drain, etc, not understanding proper filtration at the time. I now have retrofit bottom drains...wish I had a "real" one. :)

I don't think you are crazy, I love the idea! I have thought for years that, if I ever get a place with a pool that I will make it into a pond. It's a much better use of a waterproof hole in the patio. I would try to find something that hangs over the side for plants so you can reach them easily. Maintenance should be easily done.

Hi, Guys:

I gave a lot of thought to using the bottom drain of the original pool but decided against it because of the volume of debris which would accumulate on the bottom. I currently have a load of Anacharis which I threw in weighted down, also air stones, etc on the bottom so keeping the bottom clean is not an option at this time. (I removed the drain's plastic filter/cap, placed down some polythene and screwed the cover back down, effectively sealing the drain, so a complete empty would have to take place before I could change this.)

A problem I am finding at this time is planting to fill most of the pond. For example, if I place lilies, I have to have floating baskets so they float at about 2 ft under; marginals have their own baskets, all fitted out with their own floats (swim noodles from Walmart). It starts to get difficult to arrange everything to stay in the places they are set in and at the right depth for the plants.

We are getting too much sun here and most of the water lettuce and hyacinth are dying through exposure. Without spending a lot on canopies or shades, I am at a loss of how to proceed with shading the pond surface. A direct result of this, of course, if the volume of green floating algae which is still proving a problem.

On the bright side though the "water" plants (lobelia, busy lizzy, et al) are doing very well and look pretty. No serious losses taking place.

Mint, doing very well thank you, frankielynnsie

Steve

Just to update you, we now have at least 4 new baby mosquito fish

Not a big deal, I know, but at least is shows the water is habitable for fish and there is plenty to eat.

Quick update for anyone following:

Pond clearing a little and starting to see the goldfish quite a bit. There is one blue/grey/white one which might be a koi, I am told. Mosquito fish starting to move around in shoals! But at least they remain quite small whereas the others are growing quite quickly, a couple of the others are at least five inches now. They all hide under the islands so I'm going to build a larger one about 4 ft x 8 ft.

Swimming ponds or natural ponds are quite popular in the UK right now. Google them, I saw some neat videos with great ideas - one guy converted his swimming pool in Australia. Good luck!

Hi :) Just came across this post. Thanks for all the updating youve done. I watched the video you left on youtube. Looks good so far. I can only imagine what it will become once things have more time to fill out and you see what works and what doesnt(plants wise).

I was thinking that once the hyacinth really gets going it will spread fast as well. It looked to be contained in a net-circle. maybe let it all float around freely. We dont have nearly as large a pond but ours gets crowded then can end up 18 inchs tall haha. Once it takes over you can thin out and use weighted hoola-hoops to try keeping it contained to certain areas.

In the mean time, you might be able to float old or inexpensive floating mats(the 7 foot long kind people use in pools?) they would certainly cover a larger area at a time, and shade out a bit here and there as needed.

I've used a pool noodle covered in black duct tape, and overlapped with black tulle to make a floating nursery. I sewed the edges of the tulle to the over the noodle, and put a stone in the bottom to keep the bottom tulle from floating up. With a heavier material, this could work to plant into.

Also, our local fish store carries cork bark, which we have used smaller pieces inside in our aquaplantarium to create mossy floating islands with draped plants over the edges. With the bigger pieces, you could have floating islands of plants.

In the photo you can see the noodle nursery in the lower corner, and the cork unplanted in the center. Flipped over, the cork will hold soil for larger plants. We are seasoning it and letting it get a bit waterlogged so it floats a little lower.

Could straw wattles be floating nurseries? Homemade ones, stockings stuffed with straw?

Thank you for your comments suggestions and encouragement.

I am posting a few photos this time and it will show what I have used and how I made certain things.

Firstly, perhaps I should mention that what happened as I searched deeper into planting in a steep-walled pond (with no sloping, shallow end) was that I found myself reading more about hydroponics and aquaponics. Because of the methods used in these fields, I have been using the sheet polystyrene (rigid sheet foam, or what have you) as you will have noticed in my video.

My latest island (oh my, doesn't that sound grand!) is a 4 ft x 8 ft x 2" thick sheet with a 3/4" PVC (schedule 40) frame. For transport reasons I had to by 4 sheets at 2' x 4' and join them to make an 4x8. Having done this I decided that a PVC frame would help keep it together and assist with anchoring/mooring it. Here are a couple of photos:

I joined the sheets with Gorilla glue which works very well. I jointed all the PVC with the appropriate glue to keep it airtight because open PVC tubing will sink.

I then added some 'lumps' of polystyrene glued together and hacked them about to look like rocks:

I angled the edges of the island and painted the sides and top with some exterior household paint I had lying around. Then I painted the rocks with acrylic paint of various reds, blues and browns until they looked natural (!?) Here is a photo or two, what do you think?

(The wire is a set of solar night lights)

Given that the ground cover in the foreground should later cover the nasty brown of the surface, I think (hope) it should turn out alright.

Oh; one other thing I did was to add a sheet of filter material to the underneath to encourage bacteria (I used swamp cooler pads, but in a roll). That is the reason I placed it next to the air stone column, as can be seen in the photo. I originally placed it directly over the air but found that it smothered the air column so effectively that it made the whole of the pond appear to be still, like a mill pond. Clearly I did not want this so I moored it to the side of the column. The air bubbles assist the bacteria and will therefore help clear the water.

Most of what you see there, plantwise, is a ground cover but there is also mexican feather grasses and some herbs (sage, parsley, etc).

BTW. The photos are in high-def so you should be able to zoom in if you wish.

Other updates: The lobelia is getting towards its end but still looks OK. The goldfish continue to grow, and goodness knows how many mosquito fish are in there now. I might have to consider another fish to keep them under control as there is no sign of the goldfish doing this and I am told that they should eat the eggs or small fry. Any suggestions welcome. Overall, the water is starting to clear, possibly thanks to the addition of barley straw and pellets.

Pontyrogof; Interesting idea of wattles made with stuffed stockings

Victorian_bellefonte; Cork, eh? Never thought of that. It should look very natural but does it not become too waterlogged over time. How about a photo of some you are using. Nice-looking pond, too!

Mary; Thanks for the nice comments. I'm hoping to put an update video soon.

Donna; I have had no success with water hyacinth or water lettuce, never have; I think it might be the full sun the pond gets.

Thanks for the interest and keep those ideas coming, please.

Steve