What microwave drawer did you get (I ask because I have the Sharp and it does not sit "flush" with the cabinet - the drawer itself and the control panel protrude).

I don't have it yet, but it would either be the gagg or wolf, which both allow for standard or flush install.

I agree with Sjhockeyfan.

Moreover, you have functional reasons why you want the Gaggenau. Function trumps small looks decisions every time.

If you frame up the ovens, it'll look better. This picture isn't lit for the ovens, but if you look closely, you can see that there's a face frame around my ovens, with about an inch between the combi- and the regular oven. That makes the "proud" installation look purposeful.

http://jcskitchen.net/images/Finished/Captioned/20%20Pitchers.jpg

Here's another picture that shows the frame well, but not so much how the ovens stick out:

http://jcskitchen.net/images/Finished/Captioned/22%20Spice%20rack%20and%20cooking.jpg

OTOH, if the elevation really is your kitchen, rather than just some computer idea of cabinets, and if you're having five piece, Shaker style, cabinets, then this is a silly distinction that shows your KD's biases rather than any particular aesthetic constraint. Any time there's a visual rule, it works. If the rule is cabinet panels are set back from the flush surface, and ovens are set in front of the flush surface, it all makes visual sense. Perhaps your KD just loves flush integrated. Flush integrated is really only a design necessity in ultra sleek, everything flat, no knobs or pulls, Euro style MODERN.

Your kitchen designer needs a clue.

That oven will work fine without have to pull it out farther than a standard install.

If she's really worried about modern aesthetics , then she need to tighten up the design at that sub zero and pantry doors. The belt line should be consistent across all three of those panels . The pantry doors should be made in two sections , in other words. Also, the handles should also be aligned better, not one on the right rail , one of a diff. flavor for the fridge, and then the pullout pantry's in the center of the panel .

Btw, the micro drawer and oven are never gonna line up in the same plane with a European oven.

You could always put the paneled ref. Drawers under the oven and move the microwave.

Pillog: thank you for the photos! Yes, the cabinets are framed inset shaker and that is an elevation of my kitchen per my KD. My house/kitchen is not super modern by any stretch of the imagination. It is a very nondescript suburban home outside of Los Angeles built in 1996. It is transitional and I am trying to bring in contemporary elements. My dh thinks the gagg oven will be fine, so I will push the issue with my KD. The mw drawer cann be installed the same way.

xedos: I agree that my KD has been challenging me on everything including the pantry doors. I sent her an email over the weekend telling her the pantry cabinets needed 2 doors, as I felt 84" doors were to high. I didn't notice the hardware issues. Would the mw drawer line up ok if I use the gagg mw or will it still look odd? I will look at it again in the morning and try to come up with a different configuration. I think my KD considers me overly "picky" and is sick of my interference, which is funny since it's my kitchen!

Something you can be sure of: in a transitional kitchen with inset shaker cabinets, you really can't go too wrong. The design of the Gaggenau oven itself may be the most modern thing in your kitchen. Which is good since you want modern touches. And good because it's an excellent oven. In order to mount it flush, it would need an interior frame to mount to, and may need extra depth for the run of cabinets.

The belt line just depends on the panels being as if there were a counter there. It doesn't matter which microwave you use. Just that the lines are level. If they're very off in a floor to ceiling cabinet, it's fine. It's just a different thing. If they're an inch off, it looks like a mistake. If the fridge is the kind with two exterior drawers (not just faux panels), you should take the line from the fridge for your counter. There's always a little slop in installation, so aim for a counter height in the middle of where the fridge can be adjusted to, to continue the line. If you want an extra high counter, you can have the bottom edge at the line, and a built up chunk to your preferred height. In theory, 84" can be done in one piece (standard materials are 96"). The question is should they? If the pieces are narrow and unsupported, they'll probably warp over time.

get the gaggenau, even if it "ruins" the design. I say function first, for second. I saw it installed in the showroom, and it does have to stick out a little. Cannot be installed flush. However, it is a gorgeous modern looking oven!

It actually can be installed flush--they do it in Europe. But it does restrict how far they can open, and the cabinet does have to be specially set up and designed for it. It can't be installed flush in any old cabinet.

Pillog, how exactly does it need to be set up? When I called the company, the woman I spoke with had no idea, and my KD has no clue. I'm assuming if it is installed flush, it will only open 90 degrees. As a gagg oven user, do you think that would be too restrictive?

I'm the wrong person to ask about restrictive. I paid thousands of dollars for fancy staged Blum hinges that would do soft close and still open to 170 degrees. I HATE 90 openings. There were similar options for old models of SubZero to be flush, with similar problems. I was thrilled when Miele showed up with a fridge I liked with a staged hinge.

That said, I often don't even open the door the full 90 degrees. I'd have to move the kitchen stool to take advantage of the full width, and for small things I don't need to. (It doesn't block the door, just has me standing closer to the oven.) When I use my "goose pot", which is a 15 qt. Le Creuset cast iron roaster, with a 22 lb. turkey, stuffing and a bottle of wine in it, it takes two people to get it out. Unlike when it's cold, when it's hot you can't bend your elbows close to your body. In fact, we put a mini wood gateleg table in front of the oven, and lift the pot onto that, so we can get the turkey out and onto the cutting board. Having the door open fully is the only way that works. I don't know how one would even approach it with a drop down door.

But if you want flush and don't mind the door at 90 degrees--which the oven is designed to be able to do--the cabinets have to be made deep enough, and braces have to be made near the opening for the oven to attach to.

Okay, I was looking for information for you and figured out why Dietician said they can't be mounted flush. The 400 series have opted for the push button opening with an integrated pull groove on the edge of the door. You need that in case there's a failure. I've read it before but forget. Either the child lockout, or a power failure or something requires you to use the pull groove. They sell optional handles, so if you want flush, which covers up the groove unless you leave a channel, you'd have to have the handle. That's the trade off then. Something has to stick out, whether its the whole door or the handle. Handleless is probably the more modern look. Neither would look bad in your kitchen.

Unasked for advice: You're having enough issues with your KD, you'd be best off dealing with what she knows how to do, or finding a KD who knows better what you want. Some in her position would be excited to have a client who wants to expand their knowledge, and go on the journey with you. She obviously doesn't feel that way.

Re: flush mounting a Gaggenau oven -

If your cabinet company and or designer haven't done it before , then you should probably give up the notion. Especially if your designer thinks you are picky - it will not start out well and probably won't end well either.