I'm looking at RTA cabinets for that reason. They are like ikea, you have to assemble them yourself. Barker, Conestoga, and Scherr's come recommended on the boards.

We used Barker Cabinets and could not be happier with them. High quality, American made including the plywood and hardware, super easy to assemble, customizable...they ticked every box for us AND allowed us to stay on budget. A local Amish made cabinet shop quoted us at $20,000 and we got what I feel is truly equal quality, finish and beauty for $10,500. Of course we had to assemble them but since ours was an almost completely DIY project, we were fine with that.

Another happy Barker customer. We also saved about half from our local quotes making much nicer appliances possible! (:

RTA is only a ''bargain'' if your DIY time is worth nothing to you. The clear finished Barker cabinets are only about 20% less than a good medium well specc'd already assembled line. I've done the line to line comparison to several lines. Then you still have to assemble them. And you don't have a choice of finish color.

You're right in line with what a midrange kitchen actually costs. Save more money, or start cutting out features.

I had the same situation. I wish I had a partner that was handy. I will be revisiting my kitchen after tax season.

I'm pricing out Barker right now. We did Ikea in our last house; I like RTA, but IKEA is not what I want for this house. We live about 30 minutes from the Barker warehouse, so I'm inclined to buy local. I've been asking around for custom cabinetmaker recommendations and I've only been told about bad experiences.

What do you recommend instead of and on par with Barker?

waypoint is a fancier version of shenedoah that is sold by kitchen places. have you priced schuler at lowes or the medallion version which would be the silver or gold lines?

when i did my kitchen last year kemper/diamond(thomasville)was quite a bit higher than medallion silverline or the schuler in an equivilent door style.

there are quite a few gwers that have american woodmark and shenendoah that are quite happy with them. i personally felt like the american woodmark was a better bang for the $ as they had better promotions at HD.

upgrading to all ply is a waste according to the experts on this site so you may want to reconsider the cost of that. i upgraded my end panels to a furniture/flush finish which cost less than all ply and makes the end panels look very nice.

What concerned me about Barker doors is that the website clearly states: "Solid wood slab doors & drawer fronts over 10" wide, or over 10" tall, are prone to warping, bowing, cracking over time".

benjesbride, I cannot tell by looking at the door/cabinet whether it is plywood or MDF. What made your decision not to go with Ikea for your home?

I am getting Ikea cabinet boxes, but non-Ikea MDF doors in a natural maple finish that Ikea doesn't offer. Overall, I'm really impressed with the fit/finish and utility of the Ikea system, not to mention the excellent value, and the fact that it's so easy to change the door style if we want to after let's say 10 years.

Benjysbride, I'm doing an RTA kitchen with Scherr's Cabinets. My husband and I found ourselves enjoying putting the cabinets together. We have a real sense of accomplishment. They have turned out beautifully. The fit and finish is outstanding.

Why I chose Scherr's over Barker's: I had a kitchen plan that I was using to find a custom cabinet shop. Having a plan, even if it's on graph paper is important. All decisions flow from the plan.

Scherr's took my plan and translated it into their CAD system. Yes, I'm sure I paid for it. I had someone I could talk with about selections, design and dimensions. That is why their website requires you to fill out a design form. Mr. Scherr told me they are in the process of redesigning the website.

They are a custom RTA cabinet shop. That means any color, any finish, any design, any material. The cabinets were exactly what I wanted in the finish I wanted with the design options that I wanted using the materials that I wanted. For me, it was all about custom.

I've had kitchens that run the gamut of designs, custom, expensive semi-custom, and mid-range. These are top quality cabinet boxes with exacting fit and finish, and wonderful Blum slides and hinges. I can't speak highly enough of the quality.

I estimate that I saved 40% off the cost of comparable custom cabinetry. It took us about 24 man hours to assemble the cabinets with just the two of us working. We enjoyed it. I think my time was worth the 40% savings. I have a professional carpenter doing the installation. If you have the time, ambition and inclination go for it. I'm a satisfied customer.

FYI, if you wanted to do IKEA boxes and Scherr's doors, they do it.

We are going with barker. How that prices out for each kitchen will vary, I'm sure. For us with an old kitchen requiring non-standard dimensions, barker priced out well. My GC started out as a cabinet maker (he still will make small things for a project like my inset bathroom vanities). I can't speak to the quality personally as we haven't ordered yet--though I can note that my GC hasn't had any trouble getting his questions answered and that he is impressed with the specifications for the price point.

I haven't ever heard the complaint that barker features door styles and finishes that aren't available. How does one determine they aren't available? And what makes them eighties styles? They offer several different door styles that seem a lot like what I see from other cabinet lines.

Your lowest was Shenandoah, is that still too high? We have and love Shenandoah. To save money...look at all the details of what you are paying for. Look at the items other than the cabinets like trim, shelves, drawer organizers, etc. Those items can often be found much cheaper from other sources.

We bought beadboard and painted it instead of buying it from the cab. co.

We bought wood and made/painted our own shelving instead of from cab. co.

I purchased drawer organizers at BB&B

A friend installed shenendoh a year ago & is happy with her cabs.

Thanx for all your input. I will look into Barker - they seem to be a good choice considering. Can't hurt to get another 'quote'. What I found a little difficult on their website is adding up all the trim I need and fake side doors for the end....that's when a kitchen designer is handy!

I priced Barker out with a design I did in Omega Full Access. They will do custom sizes at no Upcharge. It ended up being around 1K less, but Unassembled. And the gray Porch Swing finish that Omega does as a no up charge finish wasn't even close to being available. If I selected unfinished, and then had a local finisher try to reproduce the gray, the Barker choice was actually $600 more. Unassembled. Without the durability of a factory conversion varnish finish.

YMMV, but I think you really need to examine your design for the price drivers. I don't find your quote out of line at all, but all of those extras add up!

Our cabinet maker was very impressed with the Barker sample cabinet in walnut clear coat we put together. It is very solid and beautifully finished. Their painted finishes look much nicer than the painted finish on Thomasville we saw at Home Depot. I would guess Barker will be more than Shenandoah but less than the others. I priced out Barker in the Dover White finish and it came to $11K, but this included the entire kitchen and 2 cabinets for the dining room.

We installed Ikea Akurum Adel White in our kitchen in 2007, we sold the house last summer. Install was no problem for my husband and I; we took our time and enjoyed it (but that was before children.) By the time we moved last year, there were some small places where the finish on both the boxes and the doors were delaminating (I think that's the term.) I don't think anyone would notice but me, though.

I recommend Ikea cabinets to people who plan to live with the kitchen for less than 10 years. Their overall look and function is nice, but I dislike the look and feel of the boxes and drawer interiors, which I believe are melamine covered particle board? They seem cheap to me.

The home we have renovated is truly our forever home, so I want long lasting solid cabinets. Since I live close to the Barker warehouse, I checked out their (super small) display a few weeks ago and I like them so much better than the Ikea. I don't think they even compare other than they're both RTA. The Barker just feel nicer and the birch interiors look durable and pretty.

I haven't finished pricing Barker for our kitchen. I'm not exactly sure what sizes and configurations I want yet. We're living with flip totes and folding tables in the kitchen right now and I'm willing to wait a while to get the right cabinets even if they cost more.

I admit that I haven't totally immersed myself in cabinet research. I think I tried and got really confused, so I appreciate reading everyone's opinions.

I haven't studied their website that closely but for example the "Portland raised panel door" clearly shows a multi-stepped painted and glazed finished door starting @ $52. Click on that and what is really offered is and unfinished door with the same pictured glazed door photos. To truly get the door that is show in any meaningful size it would be 5 to 8 times that price. If all they offer is a clear coat finish then most of the pictured doors are a misrepresentation because they are not merely clear coated. Again this works for some people and thats fine.

oasisowner When I was at Barker recently, the walnut (slab) door was gorgeous. It really caught my attention (in the best way) and I stared at it for a while.

jdesign, they offer 2 painted whites, unfinished, clear coat, or a dark tamarack stain on all of their doors. Yes, there is an upcharge for finishing.

Oasisowner, thanks for confirming. Like I said, they don't offer the finishes on most of the doors that are show. If this were presented as examples of what customers have done by paying an experienced finisher to do a multi-stepped finish on doors purchased from them would have no problem with that. But it's not. They are shown with a low price representing an unfinished door (a tiny door at that). If this doesn't seem misleading then we have a different view of things. Also Tararck Varnish" (an amber clear coat) is not a stain and will not give you the look of the finished doors shown.

I appreciate your perspective on the issue, jdesign, but I'm a bit surprised that you feel Barker's website is misleading. I think it is one of the clearest, easiest websites of all the many I visited to understand what you're getting for the price in terms of size and finish. And it's super easy to play around with upgrades to see how that impacts prices. There are pictures on Barker's website showing the different finishes they offer. It seems like if they weren't truly representative of what people receive, that would have come up in the numerous discussions about them

My apologies to petralikesyoga while I tangent here. jdesign_gw: I've been all over http://www.barkercabinets.com/ site and I can't tell what you're talking about. Are you referencing their "Before and After" page with photographs of Barker kitchens? There are some photographs of cabinets they don't presently offer. Barker used to be a custom cabinetmaker--when I went to their shop a few weeks ago they still had a few old displays from their custom days--so those Barker kitchens might be photos from their custom business days. I don't feel mislead by those kitchen photos because I can tell from the rest of their site exactly what they offer.

We're seriously considering Barker, but I don't want to do business with anyone who has dishonest business practice. I'm listening and taking your concerns to heart. I just can't find what you claim is misleading on their website.

The following captures represent all of the door styles and finishes they offer. I don't see any images that look like a multi-step finish.

I am not trying to discourage anyone from using them. Like I've said it is an ok option that works for some. I don't know why I'm the only one that clicks on the first category at the top of the page which says: "wood cabinet doors" and sees pictures of stained and glazed doors with price tags on them stating "starts at $…" And when you click on that door it is still shown in the same finish but next to it says unfinished. A high-gloss polished and buffed 10 coat automotive quality finish is probably the most expensive finish on the market. The substrate underneath this type of finish in an MDF slab. If I was to offer an unfinished MDF slab door staring at $9.95 a square foot but showed it with the ultra polished high-gloss finish which is $50. sq. ft. and up to me that would be deceiving.

This is what I see. Maybe I'm missing something but can you show me where they offer this finish.

You're on the barkerdoor.com website, not barkercabinets.com. I dug around and it looks like Barker Door and Barker Cabinets are separate, but originated with from the same custom cabinetmaker.

I'm not ordering doors from Barker Door, but if I was I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt since they're labeled as unfinished (on the main page, it's in the fine print at the bottom.) Yes. the unfinished description is contrary to the picture. Maybe it's to show the detail or the grain? Maybe it's sneaky marketing? I personally wouldn't label the Barker business as deceptive, though.

I just priced my kitchen with Barker and it came to roughly $11500 (including fillers, sides and molding) - real plywood all around. More than Ikea for sure, but it seems everybody is very happy with the quality. You have to put your cabinets together - which is fine. Also they use the 'Blum' soft close hinges which are rated best. Using them for my cabinets looks more and more likely! I really appreciate this suggestion!

petralikesyoga...you can order a sample cabinet from Barker. If you are at all worried about the process of putting them together, you should really get the sample cabinet. It's a small, maybe 2ftx1ft cabinet and you assemble it exactly the same way as all their cabinets do. It will really give you a comfort level that you can't get from all of us on the internet. When I was about 75% sure we were going with Barker, I ordered the sample cabinet. We assembled it when it arrived and my DH was absolutely sold on them.

J"You're on the barkerdoor.com website, not barkercabinets.com. I dug around and it looks like Barker Door and Barker Cabinets are separate, but originated with from the same custom cabinetmaker."

Huh? When I goggle "Barker" this is what comes up first . They sell doors, cabinet boxes, hardware etc. Didn't know I was supposed to disregard that site and go to their other site that sells doors, cabinet boxes, hardware etc.

Maybe it's sneaky marketing? I personally wouldn't label the Barker business as deceptive, though."

Ok, show a picture of a door that you are not going to get with a price for it that you are not going to pay because the size of the door for that price isn't even as big as a "doggie door". There's a few names besides "sneaky marketing" that can be used here. You decide.

" - real plywood all around."

Just read a long discussion on the cabinet making forum on WoodWeb.com were most real cabinet makers believe that todays plywood is an inferior product to a good quality melamine board but the public has a different perspective so they have to use it. I'm doing three kitchens right now. Two "Panelam" melamine, one plywood (domestic). In regard to tall cabinets warping, the plywood one worries me.

I've spent time on both Barker websites as I was originally going to order new cabinets but have decided, instead, to re-use my own cabinets and a few, good quality, used cabinets I found at the Habitat Re-Store. I will, instead, be ordering new doors/drawer fronts from Barker. I've never been confused about pricing or felt there was any bait-and-switch going on at either site. It's very clear and easy to see the prices for the various sizes and finishes. I've googled for reviews on them and have read dozens with the only negative being that some people wish they were more responsive by phone instead of having to do ask questions via email. If that's the worst I've read, I'm feeling confident if I decide to use them for what I need without any feeling of being deceived or purposely confused. And, yes, I've been to the other websites as well like Scherr and Cabinet Joint, and searched for reviews for both, and both are still part of my consideration process. I think, in general, people should feel comfortable with any of those companies.

jdesign, one Barker website sells entire cabinets. The other sells the door/drawer fronts, edging, drawer boxes, and hardware but not full cabinets. It's very clear. I got it on my first visit to the site.

Ok, I stand corrected. Only the Barker door website is guilty of "sneaky marketing" tactics. Out of the three sites listed above I think Scherrs might be the better choice. If I'm going to take on the role of designer, cabinet maker and installer with little to no experience and be paying 10 to 15K I would like to talk to someone to make sure I get it right.

I guess, if you're easily confused. On my first visit to the Barker door website I easily understood the pricing structure for size and finish options. I think it took me about 2 minutes to price my first set of doors. Easy-peasy, no confusion, crystal clear. Since we're comfortable with being designer (with all the wonderful help from GWebbers!), re-purposing our old cabinets and used ones purchased, and installing them, with several kitchens under our belt before this, and only paying about $600-800 for what I need to purchase from Barker (or elsewhere, depending on what I finally decide), I don't feel the need for much hand-holding.

How do you know that someone purchasing from either Barker site aren't using a KD and professional installers? That seems like a leap.

jdesign_gw If you're going to quote me, please use it in context. I also suggested that "Maybe it's to show the detail or the grain"

For folks who end up here in their Barker research, J Design's argument regarding Barker's business practices is based on a Barker Door webpage. You can link to the Barker Door website from barkercabinets.com (where Barker RTA cabinets are sold.) This page shows the door styles Barker Door offers in different finishes. Their Portland Raised Panel Door is shown glazed in the picture, but they don't actually sell that door in that finish.

On the Barker Door "Wood Cabinet Doors" page, "unfinished" is only stated at the bottom of the page:

ETA that "unfinished" is not highlighted on their webpage. I did that. bb

There is no grain showing in a painted and glazed door that I referenced.

Nope. There's no grain showing on that glazed door you're fixated on, but there is grain showing on the other door styles around it. I'm suggesting they might have a legitimate reason for why they show all those pictures of finished doors instead of the unfinished they're selling.

JD, I appreciate that you have been a high-end custom cabinet builder for a few decades. That glazed door finish is not my style at all, so when I look at that image it means nothing to me. However, I respect that as a craftsman you look at that glazed door finish and know all the materials, time and skill involved in achieving it. And then to see $52.95 in red across it? I can totally understand why it would bother you.

Personally, I think it's extreme to call that webpage misleading or call Barker's business ethics into question. However, I do appreciate your professional perspective and the passion you clearly have for your craft.

I'm not using Barker's, rather I using Scherr's. I also used a KD and an installation and finish carpenter. I enjoyed putting them together. I learned something in the process. If I ever do another kitchen, given my track record buying and renovating homes I probably will, I'll go the RTA route. It's not right for everyone. Most people can't be bothered or don't want to make the effort. There is plenty of business for everyone.

I'm not fixated on anything. Just pointing out a fact. To paraphrase myself above I said if theses were represented as examples of what customers have done with their doors I wouldn't be commenting. Instead I'll comment on the facts and not what their perceived intention might be. Because this style door doesn't interest you (me either hence my comment "seen these looks since the eighties) doesn't change my opinion. The stained and most likely gazed doors around it are also not finishes you cannot get from them.

"How do you know that someone purchasing from either Barker site aren't using a KD and professional installers? That seems like a leap."

What would be the point to hire a KD and an installer? Doesn't this seriously defeat the purpose of the DIY concept.

I have a different prospective. I my world there is nothing special that Barker does. They are just marketing to DIY people at retail prices. I know dozens of companies that I can outsource parts from. I'm having cabinet parts cut for me right now. My specs, any size, any material, any drilling and knotting or banding that I want. All at a fraction of what Barker charges. Same with doors. I'll say it again for some ordering from Barker is an OK option.

It was more than "an OK option" for us. It was the ONLY option that gave me absolutely everything we wanted within the budget I was willing to pay. I got about 12 quotes...everything from Home Depot, Lowes, a local kitchen design/build firm and Amish built custom. Kraftmaid, American Woodmark, Kemper, Shiloh, and several others I don't remember now. We rejected some for quality issues and some for price reasons. I was prepared to wait another year and save more money rather than compromise on what I wanted. Barker gave me everything I wanted...American made (including hardware and wood for their plywood), high quality hardware, customizable, Shaker style doors, easy assembly, low VOC and within my budget...they ticked every box. As a customer who has spent hours on their website, I had absolutely none of the issues you seem to have with their site. I find their cabinets to be superior quality to almost all of the other lines we checked out...except maybe the Amish made custom cabinets which were twice the price. You're certainly entitled to your opinion but my opinion, coming from someone who has actually used them, is completely different.

"What would be the point to hire a KD and an installer? Doesn't this seriously defeat the purpose of the DIY concept?"

Well, that's what homechef59 did. Hired a KD, installer, and finish carpenter. Yet she still bought Scherr's cabinets to save some money and put the cabinets together herself. Of course, others could also go this route if they wanted to. Why not?

Are your sources that will do it all "at a fraction of what Barker charges" places that will sell to the public? Please share! Or do they only sell to the trade at this greatly reduced prices who will then add their own mark up? If so, then how relevant is that to us end users who pay retail?

My sources sell to the trade. What people chose as a mark up is up to them. Others might sell to the public I don't know never had the need to ask. You're right I haven't spent hours on their sight. Just a few minutes and commented on what I saw. Tried to contact them once and didn't get a call back. That's the extent of it. If it works for works for you, that's great. What do I know I've never really had to price and compare different cabinet lines. I don't know what they all cost. I should I could probably charge more.

Just for some perspective I was building things like this when Chad Barker was still in diapers.

And then theres today…

I can only restate what my KD said. If I used her place of regular employment and bought cabinets from her using her freelance design, it would have cost me between $45,000 and $60,000 for the cabinets. I spent $18,000 plus the cost of the carpenter to install. It was worth my effort to spend 24 man hours to assemble the cabinets. It's was a no brainer. I can spend my savings elsewhere.

There are still plenty of fish in the ocean that would rather pay for the convenience. I chose to allocate my resources elsewhere.

What lines does your KD carry? I found the pricing only about 20% lower than Schuler at Lowes, or about even with a local custom guy.

It was a casual discussion. I wasn't going to use her employer, so we didn't get into that. She was familiar with a custom shop that I was considering. She had worked with them many times. She said they would be in the upper end of the range. After I got the quote from Scherr's, I didn't want to waste the time of the custom shop, I never asked them for a quote.

I never considered any of the Lowe's or HD lines. They couldn't provide the custom finish that I wanted. This was going to be a custom job from the start.

What's your custom finish? Do you have a picture of the sample? I'd like to see what Scherrs can do.

Mine is painted SW Dover White. They did a nice job with them. If you will search for my post My Kitchen Renovation Using Scherr's RTA Cabinets Begins there are pictures of the process. I think you can see the doors. I doubt the link works.