What is the HSPF eff rating on this system? What model air handler? What size heat strip?

I believe the HSPF rating is 10.0 and the SEER is 21.5. The air handler is cbx40vh-036 and heat strips are 12.5 kW on his XP 25, 3 ton signature collection heat pump.

I was wrong about how much electricity he used last month. He actually used a whopping 2,297 kWh with temp. settings of 64F most of the time and 68F for a few evening hours on the previous electric furnace plus one back up electric space heater for his office where he spends a lot of time (retired).

I initially thought his system was over sized for the HP, but with the variable speed compressor going down to 35% of capacity, it should work well both summer and winter. I do think the 12.5 kW heat strip package is over sized. He could probably get away with 2.5-5.0 kW strips. The price he paid was very reasonable for the quality/efficiency of the equipment, plus he will get a Lennox rebate and a utility rebate.

He did well for someone not knowing anything about heat pumps.

Do you know if the strips automatically come on during defrost mode with this model? I couldn't find that option in the system menu. He has an outdoor temp. gage.

Heat strip should be staged...7.5 KW with a 5 KW...or maybe just 2 fives...

I'm not sure if it's staged or if staging was set up properly, but I will find out. I hope it's 2.5 x 5.

I don't have much confidence in the knowledge level of HVAC people in this area concerning heat pump operation. Most of them are good at selling and most do a proper install.

Any answers to my previous questions?

"Anyone know when Carrier/Bryant will introduce the 2nd generation Copeland scroll 25+ SEER, 13 HSPF heat pumps?"

There was very little information when I checked last year. I would imagine Carrier is currently field testing them?

http://www.emersonclimate.com/EN-US/PRODUCTS/COMPRESSORS/SCROLL_COMPRESSORS/COPELAND_SCROLL_RESIDENTIAL/Pages/copeland_scroll_variable_speed_compressors.aspx

Also some great videos about Emerson's 2nd gen VS scroll on their Youtube channel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69zvzWA-vBk

The 2nd gen is able to vary operation between 20-100%. The current 1st gen VS Copeland is only able to go from 40 and 50-100% depending on the model.

Theoretically this will help cooling and especially dehumidification way more than heating, which *might* only be helped above 40-50F. Although there's also a possibility that this compressor is more energy efficient.

BTW, the Lennox XP25 uses an LG inverter compressor, which in theory should easily beat Copeland's 1st gen scroll compressor in both heating and cooling. However while the LG improves cooling considerably the overall heating *dramatically* suffers.

I guess American ingenuity still beats the best that Asia can offer. :) Therefore I personally can't wait to see how the 2nd gen VS Copeland operates.

light in both cooling and heating BTUs...if heating is more important then can't compare to Carrier Greenspeed or sister model Bryant Evolution Extreme HP...

5947679 ActiveSystems DAVE LENNOX SIGNATURE XP25 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP25-036-230-** CBX40UHV-036*+TDRn 1250720450 34400 13.50 21.50 32000 10.00 21000 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 198596 Yes

OK, thanks. I was just looking at the marketing not the actual numbers.

Thanks to both of you. That's his system. He gave me the wrong letters/numbers for the air handler over the phone. I'll write down the correct ones now and put it in my file, in case we go with the same Lennox unit down the road.

I'm also looking forward to the specs. on the upcoming 2nd generation variable speed Copeland scroll units. Our issue is low heat and cooling loads with our tight home. Last month we used app. 9,500 btus/hr. for heating with an aveage mean temp. of 33F and COP of app. 2.4. The good news with the newer units is heat outputs are quite high, even with the lowest output ratings or curves. In fact, the Bryant 280ANV024 and matching coil puts out 14,790 Integrated btus/hr. minimum at 27F OT, 70 EDB using only 1.46 kW (COP 2.97). So is this minimum output the compressor operating at a lower capacity? The old curve and table I have for our unit only shows 1 btu capacity. I take it this is because it is just a single speed compressor? Anyway, the 2 ton units sound good for our situation.

The worst feature of the Infinity/Evolution, Greenspeed and Extreme HPs is the lack of electronic demand defrost to eliminate/reduce unnecessary defrost calls that not only are expensive but also hard on the condenser with wear and tear.

I believe the XP25 does have EDF.

The Bryant 280 is the Extreme Evolution HP. True variable between a range. The Bryant 288 is Evolution variable with 5 different stages. Suggest anyone considering these models, compare with the AHRI matching numbers as far as performance/efficiency.

IMO

I downloaded the Bryant 288BNV Evolution V Product Data. Unfortunately, many stages are greyed out at various combinations and the data says: "Operation in this area is restricted to maintain reliable system operation and customer comfort. The system will default to the next available stage." It's somewhat misleading to call this a true 5 stage system, although I like the concept of multiple stages for energy efficiency and comfort. I'm not sure about a rotary compressor either. Our over sized, single stage Copeland scroll compressor has been reliably cycling on and off for 14 years now. I hear you about the lack of demand defrost. It's crazy that this deficiency has not been addressed. It's loud too.

A 13+ HSPF scroll heat pump at 2 tons that cycles to 20% of capacity sounds perfect for us. It will operate most of the time at medium to low capacity for comfort and efficiency, but will also have enough BTU capacity to cover -5F with only 5 kW of strip backup.

On a defrost call, you will not get good tempering of air with a 5 KW heat strip and definitely not enough horse power with straight emergency heat. I would want 7.5 KW heat strip minimum. At one time Carrier/Bryant had a 9 KW staged heat strip for small systems that operated in 3 KW increments.

IMO

My Greenspeed doesn't have frost on demand. It does however operate in auto mode, separate from a fixed timer. Auto determines previous cycles where the coil was below below freezing and then sets the timer accordingly to 30, 60, 90 or 120 minutes. Better than nothing, but it still makes absolutely no sense.

The thermistors should be constantly evaluating and adjusting coil temps vs. ambient with a smart algorithm. I'd imagine it's a simple software implementation to exercise their 15 year-old patent on demand defrost control. Unless Carrier's engineers know something we don't.

I wish Carrier was more forthcoming, but my few e-mails either elicit no response or a canned answer.

We think about this differently. I have manually turned off the heat strips for the defrost calls. We can live with the 1-3 minutes of cool air every so often, that is, if we happen to be sitting near a register when it happens.

We've never had to use emergency heat on this system in 14 years. I find it both humorous and sad (education wise) that most people know so little about heat pumps (my other neighbor) that they think emergency heat needs to be turned on with a functional system. "The air isn't coming out hot enough honey. Don't worry love, I turn on the emergency heat." I guess the concept of supplementary auxiliary strip heat has not been explained to many hp owners, or maybe they just miss hot natural gas heat.

3 kW (10K+ BTUs) strip would work for us. 1 kW x 3 staged would be even better for aux heat.

The new world of energy efficiency is here. I'm not the first.

I tried waiting for the 2nd gen Copeland as it seemed to be looming on the horizon. Yet a year later and no new information from the Jan 2015 AHR Expo. Otherwise very few regrets for me. Eventually my next step is to install solar panels, as efficiency improves in this tech boom. The very best of both worlds. And then tell the energy companies to go f themselves. :)