I have a cl sdlm. She does mildew and had a few balled buds, but so does Belinda's Dream today. But sdlm also has a couple dozen buds and blooms so I can deal with her. My RdV looks a tad sad today but I just gave her a bit of soil acidifer and am hoping we greens up soon. Louise Odier is up to the top of a arch and has a bloom today too

Of course mons Tillier, Safrano, lady hillingdon, arch duke charles, Anna Yung, lady Ann Kidwell etc all look fabrulous today

Wild Edric looks like a rugosa but I was told it was great in a hot and dry climate, and I now have four. Unfortunately they're too young to comment on definitively, but I hope that later this year I'll have more to say. If I were you I'd take a chance on SdlM simply because when it's happy it's a great rose. Right now mine still has all its leaves, about ten flowers and numerous buds. I wouldn't be without this rose. Albas and centifolias I would not try, but Grandmother's Hat, an HP, flourishes here. It wouldn't hurt to try one or two more to see if they work in your location. I've had good success with the short Bourbons like SdlM sports and Romaggi Plot Bourbon. I haven't tried the larger ones but there again in your place I would try one or two of them. Honorine de Brabant is a poor bloomer in most places and would probably disappoint you. I would say try a few (other than centifolias or albas) and you might be surprised.

Ingrid

Some years ago Sunset Magazine had an article about rugosas that could be grown successfully in California. I tried two or three with mixed results. Like you, I admire rugosa roses.

A few HPs do well here. Think Grandmotjher's Hat, Glendora, Sydonie, Anna Alexieff. The bourbon Honorine de Brabant did reasonably well for me. It did not survive last year's purge -- I found it ungainly but perhaps I had it in the wrong spot. YMMV.

Many members of the bourbon and HP class will be miserable, but if you pick from Found roses, our natural survivors, you will have a good head start on the best ones for California.

Probably nor Reine des Violettes, though, I did try. And I'm in the Bay Area, where things should be a bit easier.

Rosefolly

OK, I am hoping third time is a charm for me on this. I really must be sick (had the creepy crud all week). I have written this three times and each time I forget to post! UGH! Going to the MD today.

If you can travel a bit, you might want to check out the rose garden at Huntington. They have all sorts of varieties and you might be able to see what grows well in So Cal. Also, if you wanted to go north of you a bit, Otto and Sons nursery in Fillmore would make a nice day trip. They have rose classes most weekends and they are a test garden for Austin. They carry rugosas and other varieties of roses. They have a nice webpage as well. I might get a Morro Blood Orange from them as they are not easy to find here and I love those things!

Mustbe. Check with your local Costco, they might have a morro if they stock fruit trees. I got mine there

In the SF Valley, you should have better luck with those classes than we do, near the coast. But Folly makes some good points.

You may do better with tough Found Roses than some others. "Old Town Novato" performs for us, and so does "Benny Lopez". "Grandmother's Hat" is a rock star, and we grow it everywhere on our property.

The only "Bourbon" that has ever done well here is 'Gloire des Rosomanes' ("Ragged Robin") -- and I think it's more China-like than Bourbon-like. ('Champion Of The World' was "OK" and 'Hermosa' quite successful.)

Souv. de la Malmaison mildews here non-stop, and blooms don't open -- but it might be better in the Valley.

We grew a badly-virused 'Reine des Violettes' for many years, and it did really well -- BUT it had to be constantly supplemented to counter our alkaline conditions.

All of the Bourbons and HPs we've ever grown (with the exceptions of GramHat and Ragged Robin) want more water to do well than do other classes.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

Give them a try. You MIGHT be in one of those weird, "blessed" micro climates where the ones you select may perform for you. The ONLY way to find out is to experiment and see if they work. There are a few weird situations where some of them do pretty well, but those are the exceptions and not the rules. I read Thomas and fell for his literary rose porn about all of them. I tried them, multiple times, and the very few which limped along and begrudgingly gave me flowers NEVER looked as they do where they are happy to grow. Most also provided me with all the diseases and die back they could muster, right along side the types which stretched and purred like old cats in a hot, sunny window. Even when you find just the right rose, in just the right spot, with just the right amount of "garden voodoo", once you've seen it where it WANTS to be, you will never be satisfied with what it does where you want it to grow. If you want to spend the time, labor and money seeing if what you want will work, go for it. If not, lavish yourself with those which want to be with you. Many of us have been much happier with far less aggravation and expense that way. Good luck! Kim

Thanks Kippy! I am a member of Sams and not Cosco but will check with Sams and see what they have. Since I have such a small yard, I need a dwarf. Looked like Otto had those in stock. My usual fruit nursery I order from has been out of stock for years.

Mustbe: Willits and Newcomb in Arvin? supply Costco, maybe ask a friend to keep an eye out. They had standards and Semi Dwarf and an amazing selection

Thanks everybody! I can always count on this forum for intelligent advice.
Mustbnuts, I was at Otto & Sons a few weeks ago for their rose-pruning class. It was raining, however, so I didn't get a chance to see much of their gardens. I have been there before (and will no doubt go again;)) and have seen their Austin garden. Haven't been to the Huntington in a while but will be there on March 8, so I'll take another look then.
Ingrid, where can you buy Wild Edric? It seems almost mythical. I don't think DA still carries it.
Aqua Eyes, I'm going to look up Hermosa. I know Gmother's Hat is a big hit, but I already have quite a few medium pinks. Quit enabling me;)!
Roseseek, my microclimate must indeed be unique. My next door neighbor has camellias which bloom brilliantly; mine failed to make it through Year 1. Still - my band of Belinda's Dream has a beautiful bud on it, and as reported, my two Hp bands are looking good so far.
Crepescule, which as a noisette is supposed to do well, is the runt of the band litter. Go figure.
Jerijen, found roses haven't been found in my garden yet, but you are probably right and it's time to remedy that situation.
I am going away on 2/14 and won't return until 3/6, so a lot of interesting things will happen in my absence. Our son will be house- and dog-sitting and hopefully taking care of everything. Last summer he did protect all my roses during the worst of early-September heat ...my flourishing cape honeysuckle died for lack of water, but he saved the roses. I guess that's good.
Meanwhile my tea queen Marie Van Houtte produced two gorgeous blooms in the past week, and Souvenir de Mme. Leonie Viennot (love the long name) is thriving. Yes, teas are fantastic! It's just that I lust for Honourine de B. a lot ...
Not to hijack my own thread, but what of Camieux?? DA has it and they're offering 20% off. From what I've read here, it's usually more pink than purple, but oh those stripes.
Thanks again,
Sylvia

Not to hijack my own thread, but what of Camieux?? DA has it and they're offering 20% off. From what I've read here, it's usually more pink than purple, but oh those stripes.
Thanks again,
Sylvia

*** Sylvia -- It might bloom for you in Year One, but it is quite probable that it will subsequently bloom less and less, and slowly decline.

Those roses NEED a winter rest. You won't be able to give them that.

Of course, very wise people told me that, oh, 25 years ago. I didn't listen. I had to find out for myself that those wise people were ... very wise.

Jeri

Definitely consider Sydonie, as Rosefolly mentioned. I've had very good results from Sydonie, Grandmother's Hat, and Boule de Neige amongst some of the classes you mentioned.

Sydonie really is what I expected and hoped from an old-rose. It has a great Damask fragrance, it reblooms, and it doesn't get rust or mildew to any noticeable degree. BdN blooms even more frequently than Sydonie, but it has a very different habit and scent. I've only seen a few blooms from Grandmother's Hat, but the plant is always the spitting image of health in Santa Monica.

Baron Girod de l'Ain is mostly mildewy for me, though it's been surprisingly healthy the last month and half or so. Perhaps the rain is getting it optimal levels of water that prevent stress-caused mildew or rust. I anxiously await my first bloom from it, but I wouldn't recommend it as a garden plant.

Definitely acquire a few that you are itching to try and see what happens! I've had some misses, but I learned from them and moved on knowing that I at least tried something out of the ordinary. Rose de Rescht was just horrifically rusty and Damask-crud laden for me. It's gone now, but I did get a few beautiful flowers out of it!

Jay

I agree with Jay, pick the ones you really, really want and give them a try. You just never know. I've done that here with a few chinas and teas (Mutabilis, Archduke Charles and Duchesse de Brabant) that, of course, don't like my winters. Unfortunately I got them the season we had our worst winter since the 1880s, lol! They didn't survive but I did have them for one glorious season of bloom and I learned some things along the way. I may even try again with a different batch and see how they do.

I do have HdB, RdV and RdR here and they're all quite lovely but also rather disease prone. So you may not really want them after all. RdR in full crud mode is horrific!

Uh-oh! If you're in SFV, I'm in a climate zone almost identical to yours and didn't have a clue I shouldn't be growing these roses? WHY DON'T THEY THRIVE IN OUR AREA?

I grow the Bourbon SdlM, and though it hasn't exploded in bloom like our David Austins, it has been a very pretty rose for us. I did an extensive evaluation of it on Humpty Dumpty House Foundation Facebook page with lots of photos at all stages (I'll post the link below). Did I read in this thread that it'll start growing backwards due to lack of enough winter chill? I haven't seen any disease in SdlM at all yet, nor any balling. A picture of our SdlM is below.

We also have two SdlM climbers which have grown almost as rampantly as Tradescant. But unlike Tradescant which bloomed its head off, SdlM climbers didn't bloom their first year. Same story with the tea noisette Crepuscule which was mentioned on this thread.

Bottom line: take a look at our pictures and evaluation to see how this rose has performed for us. That might help you determine if its worth a try. And I'll post updates so we can see how SdlM does over time in our climate.

. . . . .
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Sow What -- Souvenir de la Malmaison is not a once-blooming rose.

The question of lack of winter chill was in response to once-blooming roses in overly-mild (no winter-chill) climates.

Though, it must be said, in many parts of California SdlM can be a martyr to powdery mildew . . .

Camieux was one of the first three "Gallicas" I tried in Granada Hills (91344). It was own root from Greenmantle. Cardinal de Richelieu and Charles de Mills were the other two. Camieux flowered the first season, ONE flower, because it was colder in Garberville where it originated. It never flowered again. That original plant died after two and a half years. Its replacement lasted a year and a half. The third one limped along for two years before I shredded it for mulch. Cardinal de Richelieu ate the yard, as did Charles de Mills, both mildewing madly with Charles also black spotting badly. Richelieu flowered reliably every year. Charles ONLY flowered when packed several times a winter in ice. I figured if you had to refrigerate tulips in this climate to force them to flower and if you had to ice French hybrid lilacs, why not Charles? It worked, but proved too much of an inconvenience to continue. Eventually, even those two were dug up and given away, though due to their vigor of suckering, they provided MANY starts for others who wanted to attempt them. Kim

Sylvia, I obtained my Wild Edric roses from Heirloom Roses, but I see they no longer offer it. If you're really interested you might contact them to see whether they'll have it in the future. I've only had two or three (quite fragrant) blooms, and hope to have a nice display in the spring, but at this point I really don't know how good a rose it will be for me.

Ingrid

I apologize, Jeri. I skimmed the thread in a panicked hurry. I now see you were referring to the Gallica Camaieux rather than the classes named in the title of the thread. So I still don't understand why we can't grow Rugosas, Albas, Centifolias, HPs, and especially Bourbons in southern California. I just don't remember ever reading anywhere that these shouldn't be grown in our area, and I'm wondering if I've wasted time and money on roses that are doomed to fail.

. . . . . 

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Sow What -- You are many, many miles inland from my coastal location. It's entirely possible that some of the Bourbons may do well for you. I've never seen it happen here, but I don't garden where you do.

Unless you can get advice from someone who lives next door to you, you're going to have to try things out, and see what happens.

Rugosas don't flourish where conditions are alkaline. If your conditions are acidic, rather than alkaline, they may be wonderful for you. My garden is where they go to die.

Albas, Centifolias, and the like need a period of winter chill. Maybe it will get cold enough in your garden for that to happen. You may have to just try them, and see.

HPs like some winter, too. Without that, many of them really can be disease magnets. You may have to try them, and see.

Bourbons are down around the level of the earliest crosses of remontant Asian, and non-remontant European roses. I honestly don't know WHAT they want. I only know that, in my coastal conditions, they grow 15-ft. tall, suffer from fungal disease, and bloom sparingly. They may not have those problems, in your inland garden.

It's just -- no one is going to be able to give you guarantees. You're going to have to experiment.

Jeri --thank you; you've really helped clarify. And of course I don't mind experimenting and adding to the body of knowledge by sharing what I learn, but I want to do it with my eyes wide open. So you might imagine I was taken aback by the title of this thread:

No Rugosa/Alba/Bourbon/Cent/HPs Ever in SoCal?

Say whaaaat??? I know I'm a beginner, but I do try to do my homework before buying a rose. So I was quite confused how I could have missed such an absolute. "No" and "ever" are very strong language, but obviously that's not what was really meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thank you for a valuable lesson in rose growing. I'll be watching the SdlMs, and report what I observe.

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I'm in coastal So Cal. Most Bourbons do wonderfully well for me--'Souvenir de la Malmaison' is practically everblooming, 'Hermosa' right now is 8' high and covered with blossoms, my own Bourbons 'Charles XII' and 'Gustavus Vasa' are happy as clams, as is their father 'Souvenir de Victor Landeau'. SdlM only balls for me when the weather is inclement. With HPs here, it has to be a case by case decision. I have a foundling I got decades ago from Heritage Rose Gardens, for which the label long ago faded so I have no idea what its study name might have been, and it thrives. 'General Stefanik' grows well, and, though for me it's a once-bloomer, the bush is handsome and much appreciated in the garden. 'Duc de Bragance' grows vigorously and gives scattered flowers of a beautiful crimson through the year. 'Souvenir du Dr. Jamain' is happy. 'Mme. Boll' does well when given iron supplements. 'Gloire de Ducher', I'm still deciding about--it grows and blooms a little, but isn't very enthusiastic. OK, the software evidently doesn't like this long message, and things are jumping around as I type, so I'll continue in a new message shortly...

To continue: The only Rugosa which ever did well for me here is 'Grootendorst Supreme', which was nice enough, but a little too wild-looking in its habit for the place I had it, so, eventually, out it went. The only Centifolia which grows in a normal way for me has been 'Rosier des Dames'; and, even so, it doesn't bloom much. After an eight-year trial, I finally gave up on my cherished own-root 'Bullata' earlier this year. It would grow a little, and the leaves were interesting; but the bush was asymmetrical and odd-looking, and the one flower it had in all this time, while perfectly pretty, was just an undistinguished double pink rose in the final analysis. It was against a wall, and is being replaced by an 'Anemonenrose' ('Ramona' is about twelve feet farther along on the same wall). I have had a 'Camayeux' for quite a long time. It gives a blossom or two or three every year, but doesn't grow much. The blossoms are very short-lived, shattering quickly. I had wanted to complement it with a specimen of the 'Camayeux Reversion' which Vintage sold for a while; but never managed to get hold of that rose. And there you have it! (And the site software is making the message jump around again as I type... Also, I miss "Preview.")

"Preview" was a big help. I miss that, too.

If it helps any at all, my Ardoisee de Lyon and Baronne Prevost do ok in Zone 10. They aren't as happy as they might be elsewhere, but they sure are pretty when they bloom.

Odinthor - Just checked out Duc de Bragance since I don't think I've come across this gentleman before. Mmm...very nice. Not a great deal of info on HMF; did eventually find an obscure German site with v.g., detailed photos and what looked like excellent information, but my 'Translate' function wouldn't work on it for some reason. I did manage to glean that it fades to purple/violet and its scent is sweet/spicy and 'strong/strong exuding' - maybe that = wafting - but can vary a lot from am to pm. Is that your experience? I'd also love to know how big he gets for you (H and W) - he looks quite upright in the pix I've seen - and whether he's reasonably disease-free. I'm assuming he's a HP? Do you know if he copes with full (inc pm) sun? And, sorry, yet another Q - does he have some sort of main flush, or is it literally just scattered blooms all year?

By the way, for those missing 'Preview' - you probably already know this, but in case anyone doesn't - if you just click 'Submit' you can then edit, like we used to do on Preview, by clicking on the little pencil that appears after you submit, top right; then Submit again when done. I don't know whether the uncorrected version stays on the screen for everyone else, while you're doing it - it would be better if it didn't appear, until we'd got it right. The jiggling thing - I've done some pretty long posts, and not usually had this problem; I wonder if it's because I break it up into paragraphs??...May be nothing to do with it, but just a thought..

Comtesse :¬)

Baronne Prevost is a common Found rose in the Bay Area. It was not healthy in my garden, but that seems to be an exception to the usual condition.

Yes, your understanding about 'Duc de Bragance' tallies with my experience: purple/violet, sweet/spicy, scent varies. The sun is hard on the blossoms. Mine, fortunately, gets a lot of dappled shade. He grows in a peculiar fashion all his own, long and tall and kind of wispy--in truth, not the most attractive of plants. And, more on the not-so-good side, rather prone to fungal adventures. As with the growth, so with the blooming: Peculiar: Periods of scattered bloom. But the color is remarkable and smooth, and the form is delightful. In my earlier post, I had forgotten to mention my favorite HP, the foundling 'Jay's Crimson Hudson', which I couldn't do without; and the sort-of HP 'Erinnerung an Brod', which is OK but only a once-bloomer for me, and a rather awkward plant. Still, it grows, it blooms. Of HPs, I also have an 'Amedee Philibert', but haven't quite decided about her merits.

Brent -- FWIW, "Jay's Hudson Crimson" (Or, Jay just says "Hudson Crimson") seems to be identical to "Old Town Novato." And it's one of a handful of HPs that also does well here.

(Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal, Sunset Zone 24)

Crepescule is slow to start. my band grew in slow motion for years. Eventually it will get going in a regular way. Do not think something is wrong with your plant if it sits still for a few years.

Here by Disneyland I grow La Reine and it seems to like it here. Madame Issac P is beautiful but only really gives one show. Same for Baronne Prevost. They look wonderful in the spring but offer only a few blooms after that. My SdlM blooms all year but can mildew. Pauls Early Blush is very nice as well. Try for a morning light area with protection from drying and blowing winds.

I think you can grow them.

I grew

felicite parmentier , the apothecary rose, r centrifolia, and S.D.L.M. cluster under a banana tree. They were disease free, required nothing and put on a big show every year. My gardeners pulled them up and i haven't been able to afford them since. There's no source in the area because all the garden houses think you cant grow them.

They just need something to make it colder in winter. it is ten degrees colder and damper under the banana tree at all times.

Wild Haired Mavens, an inexpensive source for some if not all of these roses, and other interesting ones at well, would be Burlington Nursery. Burling sends out small but healthy bands and her prices and shipping costs are very, very low. She worked with the great Ralph Moore and could probably root a paper clip, she's that good.

By the way, that's a lovely picture of you two.

You know, 'Baronne Prevost' has done very well here. Our original plant was good for 20 years, though multiple viruses eventually caught up with it. But it's disease-resistant here, and a good bloomer. Once mature, we found it bloomed very well in spring, with a lesser, but still nice, flush through Fall.
We have a Foundling, now, that I think may be B.P., and it, too, is doing well (though still immature).

Burlington nursery is going into my garden diary for looking into. Thanks for the tip.