It seems to me that people who choose not to vaccinate their children do not care about possible exposure to others who are vulnerable, including unborn babies. I don't know what the stats are, but I think the chances of a bad reaction to the vaccination are teeny tiny.

It's not just in California. There is now a case in Oregon. It's moving across the country. Yes it's dangerous to plenty of people, but I believe antivaccination thoughts are more about adding chemicals to the body and worries of autism (even though that's been refuted). Wonder how many people the man from Eugene came into contact with while at the Rose Bowl and traveling. That's worrisome.

I am so glad my son is very caught up on his vaccinations, but, I still worry he could get it. He hasn't had any of those childhood illnesses since he was younger than 2 and he had whooping cough. He was miserable from the pain and being stuck in the house. Don't know what I'd now if he contracted that. He'd get so behind in school. Ugh! He can't afford that at all. Not just illness worries, but time, money, and future chances at good schools here. I'm glad I don't have to worry about any babies born/yet to be born. My heart goes out to those women.

Here is a link that might be useful: Eugene, Oregon case

I was reading about this in the paper this morning and was surprised to learn the measles vaccine wasn't available until 1963. So it's possible many of us here actually had the measles. Anyone concerned about their resistance to the disease can have a titer test (blood) to see if they are immune.

Some schools in Orange County are having unvaccinated kids stay home 21 days. This could be really rough on any kids, especially high schoolers. I jut don't know how they'd catch up.

We're all so much more aware of how these diseases can spread because of ebola, and it seems like measles is more contagious than ebola. Apparently 4 days before coughing begins and 4 days after.

Sheila, I wonder if the unborn baby of a vaccinated expectant mother would be at risk. I envision this woman going to kdg to pick up her (vaccinated) child and being exposed to measles through an unvaccinated child at school.

This post was edited by socks12345 on Wed, Jan 21, 15 at 13:52

That's scary. I live about 20 minutes from Disneyland and I am trying to get pregnant.

Law and Order: SVU aired an episode some time ago about an anti-vaxxer mother who took her son to the playground (before the spots appeared but while he was contagious). A child who was still too young to receive her measles inoculation contracted the disease from the boy and died.

In the ensuing trial, the jury found the anti-vaxxer mother not guilty as there is no law requiring parents to immunize their children.

All that to ask: Should there be a law requiring parents to immunize their children?

When I was a teen, I remember a family where the mom was exposed to measles during her first trimester of pregnancy and the doctor strongly recommended an abortion because of the danger of the baby being born blind or deaf. Reluctantly, they decided that abortion was the best solution.

I don't think a law will work. There will always have to be exceptions made for the small amount of people who cannot be immunized for various reasons, and it will be a slippery slope to enforce if all you need to be exempt is a doctor's note.

I think the tides are slowly turning though, so hopefully the anti-vaccinaters will start to consider it again now that the "science" has proven unfounded. I definitely think something we're doing is causing the huge spikes in autism but I'm not sure what it is. I think it's more related to pregnancy and childbirth.

The schools here require the kids to have vaccinations. They are pretty strict about it. My oldest was vaccinated correctly for the state where we left. He was required to get a second chicken pox vaccination before we could submit any enrollment papers. I'm not sure what exceptions the schools allow on vaccinations, if any. Ability to enroll in school is probably the closest thing to a law they have.

chi, wear one of those medical masks when you're out in public. Measles are highly contagious because it's airborne. I'm not trying to create fear, but maybe you can get through this. I remember doing some silly stuff to avoid problems, but what specifically, not so much any more. Must not have been too humiliating or long lasting! He's happy and healthy, so maybe whatever weird things I did, like avoid even a sprinkling of alcohol on food, stayed out of crowds, etc. were worth it. I have been in the position of aborting for safety, and even though fully justified, it's still awful. Stay safe!

Thanks Rob. I don't work outside of the home so that helps as I don't have to go out in public very often. I do take precautions but I have to be careful not to get too crazy about it as I am already prone to anxiety attacks from worrying about the millions of things that could happen! And I know it will get even worse with a baby. :)

Measles is vastly more contagious than Ebola. With Ebola you must contact "fluids" from an infected person. With Measles a person with no apparent symptoms could leave a room, and you could enter as much as four hours later, and end up infected.

Although Measles has a much lower fatality rate than what has been generally reported for Ebola, given its much higher contagiousness I'm sure more people will die as a result of this Measles outbreak than the total number who contracted Ebola in the United States.

I would be tempted to say that since this will only affect those who follow the respected scientist, Dr. Jenny McCarthy M.D., PhD that they are only getting what they deserve, and they may actually learn something from the experience. However it is usually the children of these people that are affected so that is not really fair.

Furthermore some people are precluded from getting the vaccine for actual valid medical reasons, other people who are immuno-compromised can contract Measles even though they had been previously vaccinated. The anti-vaccine people are essentially saying to these people "My unfounded and baseless fears are more important than your life, so F--- You"

I'm not saying we should tie these people down and vaccinate them by force, but perhaps barring them from public schools, and large sporting events and places like Disneyland might coerce them to do the right thing. More likely it would merely cause them to hire a sue-happy lawyer to assert that thus barring them violates their rights as listed in the Constitution.

Which is ludicrous, since I guarantee that the Constitution never mentions the Measles vaccine even once.

It seems to me that there are both rights and responsibilities to being a citizen, and that while everyone is willing to stand up and assert their "rights" all too many are unwilling to live up to their responsibilities.

I was a school nurse and I can tell you getting parents to turn in their children's immunization record was worse than pulling teeth. Some never did and did not meet state guidelines and should have been excluded from school but my principal would not allow me to exclude them. It was a nightmare. I would make phone call after phone call and get all kind of stories and outright lies and set up appointments and then they wouldn't keep the appointment...even when the vaccine was free. I am so glad I am retired and don't have to worry about it anymore.

Our schools allow parents to exclude a child from vaccinations based on their religious beliefs. However, other kids need their records in order to enroll that year.

I strongly support schools excluding unvaccinated kids from class.

One or two of the Disneyland employees who have contracted measles were immunized and still got it.

I would be more worried about the baby shots your kids get than being exposed to measles. We did not have the diseases children have now when we were small. Children's shots now have mercury in them. I read an article about California having one area where babies were given shots that were free of mercury and the diseases went way down. I think that is why they stopped forcing parents to give their children shots.

*Children's shots now have mercury in them.*

It's actually the opposite, Emma. Vaccines have not used the mercury based compound, Thimerosal, since 2001. Prior to that, it was used since the 1930's.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/

Emma, you're misinformed or wrong with just about every comment. Click on the link below for better information, it's better to not make comments on serious topics when your understanding is incomplete.

These periodic outbreaks of preventable diseases among the unvaccinated sadden me. They serve as an unnecessary reminder of just how many morons we have in our country and how many of them are parents.

Both their kids and total strangers needlessly suffer because of the ignorance and stubbornness of the anti-vaccine loonies. It's not a kid's fault if they have idiots for parents, but let's hold these parents feet to the fire by barring their kids from schools until their shots are up to date.

Here is a link that might be useful: CDC information on vaccines

Our county school system in Maryland also allowed you to check off a box on the form if there was a religious reason not to comply with the immunization requirement. In my opinion, that is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS!!!! Children should not be allowed to attend public school without the required immunizations, period! No shots; no public school. Seems simple to me.

Saw on the news tonight that there were weaker strains of measles vaccination used in the early years of immunization from 1963-67, so those now adults need to get re vaccinated with 2 doses. Those adults born before 1986 need a booster. Those adults born before there were measles immunizations in 1963 should have been exposed or contracted measles and so are safe.

There are two types of measles -- Rubeola (ordinary measles) and Rubella (German measles).

It is the German measles (Rubella) that causes problems in the first trimester of pregnancy. Rubeola doesn't cause those problems. As far as I know, it is Rubeola that's going around now. If it were Rubella, there would be a bigger deal made about the potential pregnancy problems.

SheilaJoyce, it was irresponsible of you to potentially freak out KT members, especially Chi83 who is trying to get pregnant. And from what I recall from my days working for five OB/GYNs, a pregnant woman does need to contract German measles for her fetus to be affected.

This post was edited by Lindsey_CA on Thu, Jan 22, 15 at 0:54

No, she just needs to be exposed. I was not sensationalizing. I am not one of those trouble makers in the over 20 years that I have posted here. I just could not understand the lack of information about pregnant women needing to be careful. I erred there. It isn't that kind of measles, and I did not consider that. Nevertheless, the need for some adults to get boosters or re immunize is information that I have read and heard on the news today.

SheilaJoyce, please cite the authority, and provide a link if at all possible, that says a pregnant woman's fetus would be endangered by simple exposure to Rubella.

I still have vivid memories of being sick with measles when I was a very young child, maybe before kindergarten.

I recall being enthroned on a cot in the living room, with all of the blinds pulled, Mother bringing me hot jello or ice chips or milky tea with buttered toast. I remember the pan beside my cot, the doctor's daily housecalls (this was the 50s), being propped all around with pillows and stuffed animals, and one or the other of my parents sleeping on the sofa next to my cot.

I totally remember that my three brothers were nice to me (for a change), and entertained me with games, reading, and just being with me.

I have vague recollections of muted whispers and a look of urgency on my dad's face. I do remember being wrapped in a heavy quilt being held in my mother's arms, but no memory of being transported to the hospital or of my stay there.

Not until much later....into adulthood....did I hear about how my illness affected the whole family. I came very close to dying during those weeks and my strongest memories are of milky tea and toast and my evil brothers reading stories to me.

I wonder how many know the actual law in their State as far as school admittance goes? Truth be told if you went to enroll your child in my state parents would be given the impression their vaccinations MUST be up to date but with a little pushing back a parent could easily discover all they NEED to do is fill out an "opt out" form and religious reasons is not the only reason accepted, there are other reasons some people object to vaccinations.

I think one of the reasons people don't immunize their kids anymore, is they don't understand the dangers of getting these diseases. Why. because of immunization, an outbreak is rare, compared to the 50s and 60s and they have never seen the true dangers that an outbreak can have.

We had a measles outbreak in Alberta, last year. I could not believe the irresponsible attitudes of so many. I heard one old guy say, We all had measles when I was a kid and no one died! Well he was lucky if no one he knew died or suffered long term effects from measles back then.

I have memories very similar to rhizo_1. Dark room, not being allowed out of bed, liquid diet. My mom had four kids down with the measles at once. Poor woman! AND I did contract encephalitis, an inflammation of the brain, because of the measles. I do remember how sick I was with that, was hospitalized for two weeks in isolation. I was very lucky, my mom knew there was something drastically wrong, and had the doctor come out asap. They caught it early enough that I did not have long term effects, other than I swear that is the reason I suffer from migranes today.
If anyone saw the movie, Awakenings, with Robert Deniro and Robin Williams, those people were suffering from the effects of encephalitis.

Measles are something that everyone should vaccinate their kids for. To not vaccinate is irresponsible. Proper information and education about measles and vaccination needs to be stepped up and people need to get their kids immunized.

My memories of contracting Rubeola are similar to rhizo and prairie rose, all 3 kids sick at the same time in the darkened living room. Fortunately we had no secondary illness as a result.

I believe that many folks that choose not to vaccinate their kids do so out of fear and misinformation. They just cannot be convinced that it's safer to have the immunization.

Lindsey, you didn't need to call Sheila "irresponsible." Surely you could have participated without doing that.

That said--Lindsey, is it the rubella which people are contracting now (German)?

Since I'll be traveling internationally this summer, I'm getting the titer test for immunity to measles.

It is absolutely frightening how many uninformed and ignorant parents are making decisions which could adversely affect their children and the children of others. Many have absolutely no idea of the reality of vaccination, they just bought into the hysteria. As we have seen here.

I heard one radio discussion with a woman who refused to vax her kids because of the side effects. When the host asked her specifically what side effect she was worried about, she stumbled around and finally said "fever". Seriously????

And of course some people still believe the autism-vaccination link even though the "study" that triggered the hysteria was found to be fraudulent, the doctor's license to practice was revoked, and the Lancet Journal of Medicine which carried the original article published a full retraction.

It has taken some time for the seeds of this ignorance to start bearing fruit, but I think we are beginning to see the results, and sadly it will be the children who will pay the price for their parent's misjudgments. These diseases haven't gone away, they were just held at bay with the medicine God gave us the brains to find.

Edited to add: Redcurls, there is one ritzy community here in the Southern California area where the news commented that 47% of the kids in the school population were not vaccinated because parents had opted out. Sadly the schools here do not make it mandatory for the reasons you've mentioned.

This post was edited by tally on Thu, Jan 22, 15 at 10:25

I was actually at Disneyland within the "measles window" in December. I am so thankful that I was vaccinated as a child. I was worried abut my 18 month old niece who was with me but have been assured that she has been vaccinated as well. I can understand that certain people are against vaccinating, but they shouldn't be allowed in highly populated places like Disneyland and public school. I know that would be impossible to enforce, but it would be nice.

**One or two of the Disneyland employees who have contracted measles were immunized and still got it.**

Just found this news article that said there is a 14 year gap where the vaccine is considered to be 'not reliable'. Unfortunately, me and most of my friends were children during this gap period. Guess I'll be making an appointment with my doctor!

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/are-you-in-the-14-year-gap-that-was-unreliable-for-measles-vaccine/

We had measles in our house when I was a kid - don't remember which ones of us got it, I think that I was included.

They were what we called the "red measles" ... and after having them, or maybe having lived in a house where someone had, thus had been exposed ... one was immune to those measles from then on.

But the German measles were a different kettle of fish, so to speak - one could get them a second time, and even more.

We had the mumps, as well, and were fortunate, being three young males, they they did not "go down" on us, i.e. cause testicular complications. I don't remember whether Dad got them: I think not.

Also one brother had whooping cough.

All of this in the '30s and early '40s.

ole joyful

I was born in the 14 year gap. We had a measles outbreak in Arkansas during the mid-1980's when I was in high school. We were required to be re-immunized and bring proof to school. We had one guy who didn't do it based on 'religious' reasons. He didn't come back to school after that. His family had some unique opinions on things. I'm not sure what else happened there. The school may just not have wanted him back.

My neighbor is a school nurse here. Immunization was one of her interview questions. She said her answer was that you have to get immunizations or home school. Not sure what she was told after she was hired, but I know they hve been very strict about it.

And...if parents are not getting THIS vaccine, what about all the others? What about small pox, whooping cough, polio, and all the others?

I had terrible cases of mumps (all three sets of glands, one side at a time) and chickenpox (unable to walk due to one huge infection within my right knee). I know it was my right knee because there's a dime-size scar on the outside of the knee, over sixty years later.

"Lindsey, you didn't need to call Sheila "irresponsible." Surely you could have participated without doing that."

I do NOT retract my comment. In my opinion, to which I am entitled, Sheila was irresponsible to create concern over what is a nonissue. It is NOT German measles (Rubella) that is going around. She posted without knowing or researching the facts. She later stated that a pregnant woman only needs to be exposed to someone with measles for her fetus to be endangered. This is against everything I learned when I worked for five OB/GYNs. I have attempted, unsuccessfully, to find something to agree with Sheila's statement, so I posted a request that she cite her source. She has not yet done that.

(Edited to correct the spelling of "cite.")

This post was edited by Lindsey_CA on Fri, Jan 23, 15 at 17:00

oh the irony that i'm facing today with my dentist, from being sick as toddler (measles and flu) and the high temp that went with it...they think it "robbed" forming teeth and made them as fragile as they are now...granted this was in the late 40's (?) and all i recall i was "tented" at my grandmother's home...my mother was frighten for years and probably one reason i'm now as heavy as i am...(the downside of being an only child)

If I recall, my 3 brothers and I all had mumps, measles and chicken pox in the early 50's. It was pretty common back then. As vaccinations for anything came out , we got them. I can remember going to our local elementary school in the 60's on a weekend to get the "sugar cube" for polio. And how many of us still sport a round scar on our left arm from the smallpox vaccine.

When my kids were little I trusted our pediatrician and had them all vaccinated per his recommendations and standard protocols and never gave it a second thought. It was around this time when parents were starting to question vaccines and I asked what he thought about parents deciding against immunizing their kids. His response was that if these parents had ever witnessed a child dying from some of these diseases, as he had in training, they would be singing a different tune.

Vaccinations are for "the common good." The benefits far outweigh the risks.

Incidentally, my DH, who was born and raised in a foreign country and came here (legally) after college, got mumps a few months after we got married. His father was a doctor so I'm sure he had all the vaccines available back then. He was pretty sick for a few weeks but didn't suffer any complications....we had 3 kids!

I had measles, mumps and chicken pox as a child of the 40s. When the polio vaccine came out, my parents got me vaccinated. Years later,when I was pregnant with DS, my doctor did a titer test for rubella and it showed I had had rubella. My mom insisted I had not had rubella, just red measles. LOL. My mom got the mumps from me and was very sick with a high fever and hallucinations.

Some of the parents who DID check the box on the form opting out for religeous reason, I was pretty darn sure were NOT opting that reason, but, of course, that is never questioned. (I lived in the same neighborhood where I worked, so I KNEW the parents as neighbors.) There are always some people who believe fhe rules don't apply to THEM. In other cases, I truly believed there was a religious reason, because those children were often the same ones who spent time in the office whenever patriotic or other "objectionable" activities were taking place that they were not allowed to attend. That is way different than not being immumized and thus creating a dangerous situation. Wasn't the Hawaiian race pretty much wiped out by the measles brought by the missionaries? (Or did Michener take liberties with his book, my all-time favorite!)

Here's the site from CDC explaining the differences. I didn't see that it stated specifics whether "contact" or "infection" was the criteria for concern.

FWIW, back in the 60s, if pregnant and as a precaution, we avoided any contact with anyone thought to have German Measles, not taking any chances.

Here is a link that might be useful: CDC on German Measles vs. Red Measles

From the article to which WantToRetireDid provided a link:

"Pregnant women who get infected with rubella virus also expose their babies."

If you are infected, you have the disease. That is vastly different than being exposed.

This proves my point.

In the 1940s, I had measles, mumps, and whooping cough. For me, mumps was a one week affair, but the measles and whooping cough were rough. After initialing coming down with whooping cough, I coughed for the next 2 months. I caught the measles at the end of the school year. The 1st 3 days were my sickest, but the aftermath was long. My eyes were sensitive to bright light for the remainder of the summer. I had to wear dark glasses outside until mid-September.

After having contracted these diseases, school immunizations began.

Because measles are again passing through the country, I have a question about long term immunity. I had the measles so long ago (72 years), I'm wondering how much immunity I may have now? If I had been exposed to measles on occasion over the years, my immune system would have reacted and reset itself, but I don't think I have been exposed for many years, so I am wondering.

jemdandy, Mayo Clinic and other reputable sources are saying this or something close...."If you've already had measles, your body has built up its immune system to fight the infection, and you can't get measles again. Most people born or living in the United States before 1957 are immune to measles, simply because they've already had it."

The CDC is looking at it a little differently and suggests a blood test to check for immunity. I really don't know if that's important or not. Maybe a call to your doctor or his/her nurse, ask their advice in your specific circumstance?

It was information I read decades ago in the mainstream press about the need to be careful with German measles. To illustrate the point, Jean Tierney's story was told in that article, and it made an impression on me. She was doing publicity around the country for a movie she was in. She had not told anyone she was pregnant and did lots of publicity meet and greets. Her daughter was born with un named handicaps that at some point led Tierney to board her at a special care facility, intending such an arrangement for the rest of her life. Years later, as Tierney continued with her successful career, she met a woman who gushed to her that she had been a fan of hers from the earliest years of her career. In fact, she explained, that she had the German measles when she heard that Tierney was in town and left her sick bed to go to the event, chat with her and get her autograph. That had been the publicity tour when Tierney was pregnant. The article pointed out that as in Tierney's case, a mother did not have to contract the illness, only to be exposed to it to possibly seriously harm her baby. I had read other mainstream press articles like this too.

Sheilajoyce, the information about Gene Tierney is documented on her Wikipedia page. She actually did contract rubella, probably from a fan. She was more than "exposed".

The disease caused her daughter to be born prematurely and genetically damaged. She was deaf, partially blind with cataracts, and severely mentally disabled. She was institutionalized, and died in 2010 at around 67 years old.

Good grief - I don't know anything about Gene Tierney, but wasn't that part of the plot of the Agatha Christie movie - The Mirror Cracked?

"Miss Marple explains the murders that have occurred. Heather Babcock's story was Marina's initial motive. Ms. Babcock suffered from German measles" a rather harmless disease to most adults, but problematic for a pregnant woman. Heather Babcock innocently infected Marina when she met her during World War Two. Marina was pregnant at the time; the disease caused her child to be born with mental retardation. Upon hearing Heather cheerfully tell this story, Marina was overcome with rage and poisoned her without thinking. She then spread the idea that she was the intended victim, delivering the death threats and poisoning her own coffee"

This post was edited by tally on Tue, Jan 27, 15 at 11:02