I agree Arcy! They are always warning of this or that! There are likely warnings that we will never see, that we will be invaded by a hostile country too or terrorists and how to deal with that eminent threat! I'm pretty sure they have been warning of pandemics for many many years. So what do we do, when something hits China, do we immediately shut everything down here? If that's the case, we will be shut down all the time!

All we had to go by is the numbers given out by China which apparently are way way understated. If a country of 1.4 BILLION had just over 4000 deaths, that's a drop in the bucket! We should have expected around less than a 1000 deaths from this. Of course, that has not been what happened here! Either the numbers here are fictitious, or the numbers from China are!

Sadly for the US, the Obama administration did set up a pandemic response unit but because it was an Obama initiative, naturally Trump dismantled it as soon as he could.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/31/coronavirus-china-trump-united-states-public-health-emergency-response/

We depend upon our government to think globally for us, people in various agencies keeping their eyes open and doing risk analysis. Then we depend on our leadership to take appropriate action.

Now we can all relate to ash trees (emerald ash borer), american chestnut trees (blight fungus), our continent's bats (white nose syndrome), etc. This won't end; it's life.

Seems like a "can't win" situation. If people are giving warnings for possible catastrophes, and nothing happens, people complain they over-reacted. If nonchalant warnings are given, they complain they aren't taking it seriously! Which would be more helpful.? I wouldn't want the job.

Thank God for the non-scientists who know better than the scientists! They've saved us from many catastrophes. But this time, if we had listened to the scientists, we wouldn't have had the terrible catastrophe we've all just experienced--a shortage of toilet paper!

Isn't there a phrase in the Bible that says that God looks after people who look after themselves or something like that. So scientists are trying to help us look after ourselves. To me that's very simple. Listen to the scientists who have dedicated their lives to studying things like this and you are listening to God as well if that is your belief system.

Another phrase I believe is from the Bible that comes into play to my mind is that we are stewards of this Earth. That means to me that we have to act as if caring for the Earth in all ways were our solemn responsibility.

To my mind I liken it to being a responsible mature parent or adult.

Of course we must take care of ourselves in order to better Steward the world so that goes back to phrase one for me.

How convenient of me to think this way you must be saying though. :-). Yes it is but I still believe it.

yeonassky, "God helps those who help themselves" isn't from the Bible, but mankind being stewards of the earth certainly is.

bookwoman, yeonassky -- It's from my mother. I heard it couple hundred times growing up.

(Well she might have gotten it from her mom, and so on and so on....) But more seriously I understand your point. I was lucky to be raised in a faith tradition that valued science as a way to truth.

I just think that hindsight is 20/20. So they predicted that this would happen before it ever happened. How would they know this was going to happen and how it happened and what were we supposed to do to stop this from happening? Whatever they do, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Just as Mike DeWine was telling us that when he decided to make a rule that masks were to be mandatory when things begin to open back up, people were so angry about the idea of being made to wear a mask, so he rescinded that order and said it's up to the person but highly recommended. If we aren't even willing to do something so simple as wear a mask to contain this virus...how would they have closed things down without even the first case? People would have been in outrage. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20!

I think we have to look at WHO is predicting this or that. What are their motives? Are they credible? What's their back-story, their history?

Entertainment media has to fill every hour of every day with 'something'. Most of it is drivel. Much is hype. Even a meteorologist is pressed to exaggerate the *weather*, for heaven's sake!

We should also look at our own biases. Why might we want to credit or discredit what's put in front of us? Maybe something threatens what we 'know' or believed we knew. Will this new thing undermine a whole lifetime of trust in our beliefs? (Accepting scientific proof that the earth is not the center of the universe, for example.)

And, there's, " What can I, as just one person, DO about this?" (Those 'inconvenient truths' that call upon us to <gasp> CHANGE!

We used to call that a "Monday Morning Quarterback", similar to what Foggy said.

How would they know this was going to happen and how it happened and what were we supposed to do to stop this from happening?

They knew it would happen because we had already gotten a warning with SARS and MERS and other viruses that jumped species. We have virologists and epidemiologists researching coronaviruses. We couldn't stop it completely--we could only MITIGATE it. We had a pandemic plan under the Obama administration that detailed the steps of mitigation. Peter Navarro, Trump's chief China trade negotiator, sent detailed memos to the administration in January outlining a pandemic plan. Trump says he didn't see the memos.

Would you rather we fly by the seat of our pants? Actually, we did, from Trump on down to the governors and local government. How well has that worked out?

COVID-19 is a form of SARS. They are related, but not the same. SARS just disappeared.

SARS and COVID 19 are actually the name of the illness, not the coronaviruses that cause the illness.

For those that didn't read the article, here are a few excerpts.

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“Preparedness is hampered by the lack of continued political will at all levels,” read the report. “Although national leaders respond to health crises when fear and panic grow strong enough, most countries do not devote the consistent energy and resources needed to keep outbreaks from escalating into disasters.”

With no intention of degrading the GPMB’s effort, I must sadly say that this core message has been shouted from the rafters many times before, with little discernable impact on tone-deaf political leaders, financial enterprises, or multinational institutions. There’s no reason to think this time will be any different. It’s hard to know what, shy of a genuinely devastating pandemic of killer influenza or some currently unknown microbe, will motivate global leaders to take microscopic threats seriously.

The National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine was sufficiently shaken by the meeting that it delved further, beyond the kingdom of viruses to all microbial threats, and in 1992 published a call to arms—a report that drew sufficient interest at U.S. President Bill Clinton’s White House to prompt the formal classification of emerging diseases as national-security threats in 1996.

So what has changed?

An enormous number of previously unknown viruses, such as the one that caused the 2003 epidemic of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), have claimed the lives of people and animals around the world. In just seven years (from 2011 to 2018), for example, the WHO did battle with 1,483 epidemics.

And the costs of containment, coupled with the disruptions’ general economic impact, have worsened, according to a GPMB study commissioned by the World Bank. The 2003 SARS epidemic exacted a toll of about $40 billion on the global economy, the 2009 swine flu epidemic reached about $50 billion, and the 2014-16 West African Ebola epidemic cost nearly $53 billion. An influenza pandemic akin to the 1918 flu would today cost the world economy $3 trillion, or up to 4.8 percent of global gross domestic product (GDP).

And risks are increasing. Climate change favors outbreaks, as rising heat and humidity spawn surges in populations of disease-carrying mosquitoes, allow water surfaces to suffocate under toxic algae, fill hospitals and agricultural fields with deadly fungi, and change the migratory patterns of birds and animals—which, in turn, carry their microbial hitchhikers to new geographies.

The GPMB provided a list of seven policy initiatives that should be implemented worldwide to improve humanity’s odds against the microbes. All of them have, in some form, been on the table for years, even decades. We have been here before.

“Preparedness and response systems and capabilities for disease outbreaks are not sufficient to deal with the enormous impact, rapid spread and shock to health, social and economic systems of a highly lethal pandemic, whether natural, accidental or deliberately released. There is insufficient R&D investment and planning for innovative vaccine development and manufacture, broad-spectrum antivirals, appropriate nonpharmaceutical interventions,” read the GPMB report. “Epidemic control costs would completely overwhelm the current financing arrangements for emergency response.”

_________________________________________________________

I bolded the important parts. It's not that they knew this particular pandemic was going to happen, it's that they've known, for decades that something like this could happen, they've been told that they should be taking steps to mitigate it once it DOES happen, and the collective world government's all said, "eh...no thanks" Now we all pay the price.

FWIW, I've listened to Michael Lewis, who wrote the book 'The Fifth Risk' (and read a good chunk of the ebook before I had to return it and am now waiting for it to be available again) speak about all the serious threats that face us as a country that we average citizens don't know or think about, and about the dedicated folks who are tasked with thinking about them. The title refers to the risk that is unanticipated, the one that keeps such people up at night.

Anyway, he said that he got a chance to profile Pres. Obama toward the end of his first term, and asked him what threat to our nation kept him up at night, and the answer was 'pandemic'. Lewis said he presumed that the incoming administration would also take that threat just as seriously, and continue the work and institutions put in place to address it, so he didn't go into it very deeply in the book, and of course now realizes how wrong he was.

Public health is something most of us do not think about very often, I'll bet, and many people seem to take it for granted that their food and water and working conditions, among other things won't kill them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/01/848628724/opinion-always-the-bridesmaid-public-health-rarely-spotlighted-until-its-too-lat

The U.S. is in the midst of both a public health crisis and a health care crisis. Yet most people aren't aware these are two distinct things. And the response for each is going to be crucial.

If you're not a health professional of some stripe, you might not realize that the nation's public health system operates, in large part, separately from the system that provides most people's medical care.

Dr. Joshua Sharfstein, a former deputy commissioner for the Food and Drug Administration and now vice dean at the school of public health at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, distinguishes the health care system from the public health system as "the difference between taking care of patients with COVID and preventing people from getting COVID in the first place."

In general, the health care system cares for patients individually, while public health is about caring for an entire population. Public health includes many things a population takes for granted, like clean air, clean water, effective sanitation, food that is safe to eat, as well as injury prevention, vaccines and other methods of ensuring the control of contagious and environmental diseases.

"It's pretty invisible" if the public health system is working well, said Sharfstein, who also once served as Maryland's state health secretary. "It's the dog-that-doesn't-bark agency."In fact, it is public health, not advances in medical care, that has accounted for most of the increases in life expectancy during the past two centuries. Well before the advent of antibiotics and other 20th Century medical interventions, public-health activities around clean water, food safety and safer housing led to enormous gains.

But while public health isn't as flashy as a new drug or medical device or surgical procedure, it can simultaneously affect many more lives at once.

Making this a governmental problem is wrong. People in general need to have enough money put away to live on for 6 months to a year . Then lock downs will be more effective. People where I live, don't know anyone with Covid-19 and don't work in the medical industry. The general population can't afford to stay home and abandon their jobs. Then when they don't "see" a threat, they rebel. I see the problem as trying to "make people" do what they either don't want to do...which is "stay at home"....or can't afford to do.....which is "stay at home".

We the people.....are not prepared.

Nicole- public health is a government job. Clean water, clean food, preventing the spread of infectious diseases, investing in R&D for the development of new medicines, having a plan already for surge manufacturing, these are all government jobs.

Worldwide, the government's failed.

I agree. Public health is precisely the kind of common good a government can protect.

Some governments have done a lot better than others, I believe. It's appalling just how poorly our has done & is still doing in this instance - especially because it didn't have to be this way.

Forgot to mention I'm familiar with Laurie Garrett through OnTheMedia.org, where she has discussed this pandemic and her book, 'The Coming Plague'...

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/epidemic-voyeurs-no-more

Texas... There are people suing their state government for violating their human rights.

My neighbor is a retired hospital administrator, a doctor before that. His wife just wiped the deck down, so they can have a party. The night before they had people over playing frisbee. People are going to do what they want to do. They need to be more responsible. We....the people....need to make a difference.

Your neighbor is a moron to be so flippant. Not all docs are clever or thoughtful.

In my experience, docs go into admin if they find they don't like treating patients, they're not good at it, or they tire of it. Plenty of people go through various health doctorate programs- like MDs, dentists, vets, even physical therapists, etc - start to practice, and find they dislike it. Some even get to that conclusion before graduating and so plan after graduation to find a position that uses their doctorate but doesn't involve seeing patients.

Nicole I agree that everyone should have a 6 month emergency fund (i do) but unfortunately many people live paycheck to paycheck.

I keep wondering, even with insurance, how people who were admitted to the hospital are going to pay their medical bills?

My job is covering our insurance until June 30th. If job reopens I don't have to worry. If it doesn't I'm still not going to worry

Some of my friends said they would go with COBRA but in researching it would cost me over $500 a month. Can't afford that.

SamKaren Your resident dj

Nicole, the two are not exclusive of each other. Yes, we have to do our part, but we also have to work together (that's the govt part - govt should not be your enemy, it should be you - the inclusive "you").

Whenever a friend or family member gets a disease, there is always a big campaign to raise funds for cures/treatments. I quietly donate my money to prevention. All those things listed above under public health (govt). The old adage an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is still very true.

If you don't like what your govt is doing - change it. Vote and lobby for what you think is important. See how it comes back full circle to you and govt working together?

OK....let me ask this.....Remember Katrina? People waiting at the main center....? The government handled that one too.

People stood around waiting for the government to "save" them. For Fema to give them a place to live. There are still people living in trailers....to this day. Private citizens like Brad Pitt & Sandra Bullock started building the place back up, using their time & money. Ask those people how the government did.

The government....under another president....did not fare well in ANY disaster....any time in our history. Go back farther if you like.

The government in China "is" taking care of it's people and it's people are held hostage by the government. Is that what you want? Whistle blowers about the pandemic have ALL disappeared.

Don't ignore who is in charge of the federal government. It makes all the difference, especially when one party believes it is not government's role to aid its citizens, and the other believes it is.

Many times the best way the government can aid it's citizen is to get out of the way.

Unless you live on an island with only your family, *government* is a given -- whether it's the tribal chief ruling over fifty people or another form of rule (monarch, dictator, or in the USA, an elected body).

You can't 'opt out' of agreed-upon rules for your community and be part OF the community.

Individuals can fail to understand they ARE 'the public'. Public health serves every member of the community. (Insects, birds, and other mamals instinctively know how this works.) Our individual survival isn't as separate from others as we may believe.

One should not assume that the worst is past us just because restrictions are being lifted; IT’S NOT. Most models now predict that because of the way some states are responding, the death toll by August will be double if not higher then originally expected. I get not being interested in “the politics” of the country but I wish and hope that Covid will force people to become more aware of what is really happening here. When you look at the big picture from several different angles, one can’t help but wonder if this administration isn’t purposefully trying to thwart the states’ efforts to fight this virus and what the true motivation of the White House really is. Just a few examples:

Ignoring the warnings from the scientists, closing the applicable agencies for preparedness, ignoring security warnings about China’s epidemic early on, lack of a Federal nationwide response, refusal to accept test kits from the WHO early on, not providing testing now, bidding against the states and/or seizing shipments of the PPE during transit, firing many of the Inspector Generals connected to over site, influencing the information released by the CDC or used by his “task force”, putting people in charge of agencies that have no expertise for the challenges we face. encouragement of protests against governors who are following the science and the list goes on. There are lots of articles from reputable news agencies about all of this all you have to do it google it.

If you *wanted* to weaken the United States of America, wouldn't you do all of the above -- make govenrment disfunctional, rig the judicial, sow distrust? This is an age old scenario. Once well primed, a republic can be 'rescued' by a dictator.

I do not want to become a pawn of a dictatorship. Let the Russians continue to write all the sad songs of servitude.

Excellent post, Lukki Irish. Don't just ask "what" the government is doing, ask "why". Especially during an election year.

Thank you Toby. I agree, I also like to say ignore what they say, but watch what they do, actions speak so much louder than words.

This certainly is not the time for our federal gov't to get out of the way.

In the end....the government is not looking for a cure. laboratories are. Abbot Laboratories is testing a vaccine. A vaccine is what we need to stop the spread.

Yes Nicole, due to government interference the fastest a vaccine has been brought to market was six years but by then we would have herd immunity. The average time to bring a vaccine to market with all the government red tape is in the ten to fifteen year range.

Get the government out of the way and if it is possible to have an effective vaccine that could go to market next year.

So would you rather have government in the way or out of the way?

FWIW, I understand the mumps vaccine took 4 years...

Raye....

Be upset with China. They let infected people fly all over the world knowing they were spreading a virus. They claimed it was not human to human transferable. When Trump shut down flights to China, everyone was calling him xenophobic. Nancy Pelosi tried to pass a bill keeping him from being able to do that. Yes, the government should be involved. Arresting people for leaving their homes......maybe that's going a little too far. The people staying home, they're safe.

Do any of you read Imprimis. A publication of Hillsdale College? This months article is "Thoughts on the Current Crisis." It brings up some very good points.

but by then we would have herd immunity

The nation has never developed herd immunity to either type of measles, chicken pox, mumps, diphtheria, smallpox, polio, influenza, HiB, meningitis. Vaccines are the source of the "herd immunity" effect.

I'd prefer any medication I put into my body to have FDA approval. (I'd also like a few thousand other humans to have had no adverse effects a new med.) Recently the Trump administration was trying to push doctors in NYC to use 'meds' made in India. The medications were untested and the quality was unknown.

Most of the ingredients that are used to make medicines in the US and the rest of the world come from other countries. Yes they can be compounded/made in the US but you will never have medicines that are made strictly from US ingredients because the raw ingredients do not exist for some other than in a very small area of the world which is not in the US.

Sorry raee but there is herd immunity by natural methods. Inborn immunity and active immunity are two types. Think about this, every year some version of the influenza and cold viruses circulate through the population. But how many years or decades has it been since you last had one of them? You don't get sick every year or for many decade because you have had a prior infection and the body now recognizes and stops that infection. When enough people don't become sick & don't pass on infection it protects the majority of those that by age, infants, or by immune suppression, age & medical conditions, highly susceptible.

"When Trump shut down flights to China, everyone was calling him xenophobic. Nancy Pelosi tried to pass a bill keeping him from being able to do that. "

Biden came out against him also. Pelosi also called for people to come into China Town.

and how much of this (including other things like measles...) came into the US over the southern border?

RayeSmith, I am thinking about it, and I don't think "herd immunity" works exactly like that. Do you have a source article to share? On second thought, never mind. It's irrelevant. I'm very much in favor of scientist-developed and tested vaccines, and the government/private sector cooperation.

Nickel, I have a degree & also worked many years in microbiology. I do believe that vaccines can work but there isn't one and many not be one for this virus. I don't believe that the government is that answer to all problems.

Coronavirus wasn't a southern border issue. That's fear-mongering so that Trump can build his ridiculous wall. We had cases here first and probably exported them to Mexico through tourism. Mexico should have closed their border to us, like we did to the Chinese.

Raye, I was feeling pi$$y last night. I apologize for a snippy (for me!) remark. I believe the government, like any large organization, has good and bad players. It irritates me when the good work of so many, is ignored because of the bad actions of a few.

Nickel, thank you :) sorry you were feeling bad, isolation plays havoc with emotions.

Irrespective of what China did or didn't do, the possibility of a global pandemic had been predicted and expected as a "when" not as an "if", for decades. Trump systematically dismantled multiple measures that had been put in place to anticipate, detect, react and prevent an outbreak as soon as possible.

Even the little bit that hadn't been completely dismantled, was ignored repeatedly for weeks that could have made a crucial difference.

His short-sighted actions probably saved the country many millions of dollars, but will end up costing the country multiple trillions of dollars.

Just pointing out there has not been an effective vaccine for the coronaviruses MERS, SARS or others that cause common colds.