I booked my first Airbnb rental a few months ago but haven't stayed there yet. My son graduates from college in May and told me years ago that Charlottesville books up a year ahead of graduation. Did I listen to him? When he was home over Thanksgiving break he reminded me that I need to get a hotel and of course, there were none to be found within an hour of the city. I found an adorable bungalow in a fun part of town -- so cute! It will be much more comfortable than staying in a hotel, as my other son will be with me so it will be nice to have the extra space. I am also about to book an apartment in Brooklyn for spring break in March! You're right about checking reviews carefully. One of the spots I wanted to rent in Brooklyn showed in a review that the owner had cancelled a week before the guests were to arrive so that automatically got crossed off my list.

Hi Tibb,
I'm not sure why you say Air Bnb makes up front communication impossible? We emailed extensively and texted. I suppose we could have chatted too, idk, but I was totally satisfied with communications.

I didn't have an issue with fees because we aren't really renting things that are comparable to any hotels one could find.

Yes, you can email through the site, but no phone calls until the place is booked. The problem here is that AirBnb and HomeAway, these huge sites, are morphing the hotel experience with private homes as vacation rentals, and they are very different things. Homeowners are not comfortable with just written word communication before booking. For instance, imagine if you were going on a trip and wanted to rent your home while you were away. Wouldn't you want to actually speak to the person before deciding to rent your house to them? Anyone can text, but a scammer isn't going to give you a legitimate phone #, and that is another way we VR owners screen for phishers and scammers.

What would prevent one from speaking? We texted? I just never thought to or wanted to call.

You may have different concerns as a host, but as a renter, the airbnb vetting ... Really, primarily in this case, the over 50 reviews in the last 2 yrs.... was enough for me to feel comfortable that it was not a scam. Much harder for you as a host .... How many potential guests will have been reviewed 50 times!

Edited to add ... Btw, I've already paid in full for these stays to air Bnb, so how scammy can a guest be, KWIM? You pay as soon as you book, and the host knows that, although I'm sure they don't receive until they perform, it sure eradicates that risk for the host.

This post was edited by mtnrdredux on Wed, Jan 28, 15 at 9:16

Tibbrix - something is weird because I've been able to communicate with homeowners on Airbnb and ask for more info before I book. That's how we made our move from IL to NC - we rented an airbnb cottage to stay in for 2 weeks while we looked for a 'permanent' house to rent for a year. I would not have made a commitment like that without direct contact. Last year my son and I took a trip in CA and we/he contacted homeowners prior to booking - a casita in San Francisco and a guest cottage in Cambria. Last July we went to CA for a wedding and rented a house 3 br 2 ba house in Huntington Beach for family coming in from 3 different states. My son took a trip to the coast for a concert and stayed on a moored boat. He uses airbnb far more than I have and never books without contact with the homeowner.

Of course there is room for deception on any of these sites I imagine, so the old adage buyer beware applies. Maybe we've just been lucky but we haven't been disappointed yet and the homeowners have been lovely to work with.

Guests?

That's why I mentioned that in the first comment, that owners want to be able to review guests, which they can do on AirBnb but not on other sites. but those sites are moving toward that now too.

I would not recommend renting your house to someone based solely on emails and texting! And as I said, there is a very big difference between renting a hotel room and renting a house, but these sites are morphing those two things, and there are going to be very big problems as a result.

I think AirBnb is great, as I said, for the one or two night, need a bed, thing. Their model does not work well for the vacation rental, though. And conversely, the vacation rental site model, a la HomeAway, VRBO, et al, doesn't work well with the hotel model. But these sites are trying to combine the two.

dim, I didn't say you can't contact the owner on Airbnb. Of course you can. The owner gets the inquiry.

but you can't have phone/verbal communication on these sites prior to "booking". the problem there is that, if a traveler is hitting "book it" buttons on multiple properties because they want to speak to the owner, or because the owner wants to speak to them, that closes off those properties for other potential renters until that traveler makes their decision.

Also, as I said, since most weekly-plus vacation rentals are advertised on more than one site, are you not better off getting the same house without paying 12 - 15% over and above the rent?

I'm not bashing AirBnb. I think in fact it's a great idea. I'm just saying that model doesn't work very well for private home vacation rentals for various reasons.

And btw, I had my house on Airbnb briefly but took it down because it was a costly nightmare…for my type of rental. Not for every type.

Dlm, I'm optimistic! Most important thing I think is to choose places with lots if reviews and read the reviews carefully. People tend not to want to say negative things about personal homes the way the would a hotel.

Gail, i bet the bungalow will be great! I worry a lot more in nyc and la, KWIM? Charlottesville is such a great city, we were there last spring. Highly recommend Clifton Inn, great food too. we stayed In their Collina farmhouse and I liked it so much I may have posted photos here iirc!

Tibb, still don't follow you.i emailed and texted owners extensively BEFORE booking. If I wanted to call, why couldn't i... I had a number from the text? Even so, I communicated all I needed to before booking.

Mtn, sounds like you did a lot of great buyer beware stuff! When we spoke before I forgot to mention to check # of bedrooms and count beds but you did anyway.

I rely heavily on the reviews. As a guest, I now have a few reviews as well ("very clean" - they don't know me very well! But I do clean frantically before checkout) which means a few of the higher end places are more likely to book me in.

This is one of the nicest places I've stayed through airbnb and now serves as cottage dream material. You can find some great places on there if you're choosy.

DS's GF had a business trip to Rio and São Paulo in November and he tagged along. They stayed at AirBnB apartments in both places and were very happy with them and from the pictures they took they did look like nice places, decent locations and views.

Tibb... in re fees, Air BnB did not charge the traveler 12-15% above the rent, as you noted above, at least not in my case.

The LA stay has a 6.3% fee, NY has 7%.

Considering NY hotel tax is like 14.75% .... the fees look low.

Again, no idea how they impact your economics. And at least for what we wanted, there was no way to do an apples to apples comparison with a hotel.

But I do imagine that if AirBnB is doing mostly shorter stays and often budget stays (like a spare bedroom with shared bath), the fees at a % of the stay would be higher than a weekly home rental; that makes sense.

Tibb, I was responding to your sentence:

However, AirBnb makes upfront communication between the owner and the traveler impossible.

That has not been anyone's experience.

Oopsk you're right mtn. My mistake. Airbnb is 6 - 12% for travelers, depending on the amount of the rent.

I think I was thinking 15 by adding the 3% the owner pays for the booking.

Mtn - yes, I'm sure Cville is a less risky place to rent than NYC or LA. The Clifton Inn looks lovely. I like to stay right around The Corner or the Downtown Mall area, so I can walk around to eat and shop, plus it's close to my son's house. But I am still trying to decide where to go to dinner after graduation, so will check out their menu - thanks. I'm going to miss going up to visit him after he graduates -- it's such a great city.

It is! Congrats to him! What a wonderful school.

mtn - maybe you can help me out with my Brooklyn choice since you seem to be familiar with the area. I am choosing Brooklyn because I think it will be a fun place to stay, esp. for my 20 and 22yo sons, but also because we are driving there and I'm thinking street parking will be easier to find there than in, say, lower Manhattan. The place I'm planning on renting says on-site parking, which btw, is another funny way of saying on-STREET parking. Am I right in thinking it'll be easier to park in Brooklyn? I've never been there. I could ask the owner, but I'm sure he'll say it's no problem to find spots on the street. Don't want to be driving in circles or parking blocks away. The rental is in Prospect Place. Any thoughts? Thanks!

I think there is a difference between people who rent-out their "homes"-
as apposed to people who rent-out a "piece of property" they own.
Emotionally.... you would want that closer contact.
As a business...you would just want to have that secured deposit.

Nothing to comment on AirBnB, but I have to say we have had great success with VRBO. We are not particularly fond of hotels. We love to rent a villa/condo, or a cottage/small house. We have been very lucky in seeking out older cottages, many decorated with antiques. Also, our small dog often travels with us and through VRBO, we've even rented locations with a fenced in area! Honestly, we have not had one bad experience with VRBO. Anyway, just throwing my 2 cents in.

I advertise my house on VRBO, as well as the boutique, local site. VRBO used to be SO great, before HomeAway got its paws on it. It's going down hill, fast. Still worth looking for a rental on, though. I'd like to ring the neck of the people who founded it and sold it to HA.

Gail,
I suppose I am more familiar than some; i live in a far burb and am in Manhattan once a week, and used to live here. I visit Bklyn from time to time. But someone here may know far more.

I don't know where you are coming from, but personally i would not choose to drive to or within Manhattan OR Brooklyn. If there is one thing I abhor it is traffic. And isnt that part of Prospect Hts, like near the Chldrns Museum? wont there be alternate side of the street parking rules there? Once you get there, do you plan to drive around too or just park?

Lastly, why Bklyn? Yes, id go there to live. Id go there as a foodie or to go to Bklyn Flea. I might go there if it was umpteenth time in NYC and I wanted something different? Or if is is a huge bargain compared to NYC ( IDK?) and I was going to subway everywhere?

Thanks mtn. We are foodies, so that is part of the reason. Although obviously there's no shortage of good places to eat in Manhattan. I don't plan on driving around once I get there. But yes, I believe I did read somewhere that you would have to switch sides of the street on one of the Brooklyn listings. I didn't really think too much about that but that could be a hassle if we had to get back to move the car. Do you just have to move it at the end of each day? I'll have to look into that. I figured we'd be using the subway to get around regardless of where we stay. You have given me some things to think about. Thank you!

I have to ask the woman who helps us out with the kids and cooks for us; her daughter recently moved out of Bklyn and IIRC she was right near the Bklyn Childrens musuem. I will ask her is parking on the street was doable or not. What time of year?

Spring break which I think is mid-March. Maybe I should ask him what on-site parking means. I am assuming it means on street, because it does not say anything about a garage or reserved spots and I think that would be specifically mentioned if it were the case. Thanks!

gail~ Have you gone to Google Earth and searched the address ?

Hi forboystoo -- I think I got a pretty good idea of the neighborhood and googled the streetview, but it was a few weeks ago and I looked at so many places, I'm not sure. But I will try that again. Like mtn said, you don't get the exact address before booking but lots of times you can pretty much figure it out.

Oh, I totally forgot to check for the thread in conversations, and here it is! (and I'm called out in the subject line).

@mtnredux your choice and research sounds like the right thing to do. We've used the service twice: once in a seaside apartment in France (the owner actually lived still in the building and her stuff was clearly still in the place) and once in Rome, near the Vatican (a multi-room apartment that was clearly converted into a full-time short term rental unit and was managed by the owner who had two other apartments. A great guy with a great old apartment with a view of the Piazza).

We turned our 2nd home (a one BR industrial loft) into an AirBnB place last summer. It's located in the heart of the city in a popular mixed use district for business and convention attendees, great restaurants, nightlife and tourism, and close to transportation and the water. We use a professional concierge service to handle bookings, greetings, checkout and guest issues. They also handle cleaning, provide linens and do stocking. AirBnB provided a professional photographer to take pictures, and we've had guests surprised that the place matches the pictures (why not?). We've had guests stay up to 25 days (one guy on business, one German couple visiting their daughter) and were pretty much booked 95%+ of the time we made it available. We experienced one set of problem guests, but we don't accept every booking, and tend to maintain a a slightly premium price. We took the unit off the market because the new short term rental regulations are coming into effect.

The upsides are the extra money to defray expenses; the downside is the extra wear and tear. In fact, for this season, I'll be shopping to replace and upgrade some items. I will warn, however, that some of these AirBnB places are stocked with the barest of furniture and linens or don't disclose that they are in a high crime area.

{{gwi:1491575}}

This post was edited by gooster on Wed, Jan 28, 15 at 23:41

mtnrdredux_gw and tibbrix: I'm having a hard time understanding the AirBnb business model. It's repeated they charge the owner 3% and the traveler 12 - 15%, isn't that saying they charge 15-18%?

The owner/host sets the price/total amount at $100. Does ABB re-sets 12-15% higher? and then charges 3% out of the 100?

I would greatly appreciate a further explanation on this.

As a guest you book at a certain nightly rate that includes both the room rate and a cleaning fee for the host, and you also see a service fee to AirBNB. So for example, say I see a rate of $176 per night for a room listed by a host. When I go to pay I see the following breakdown:

$160 x 3 nights = $480

Cleaning fee = $50

(add both together = $530 and divide by three to get $176 per night)

On top of that I pay a Service fee to Airbnb = $64

Total payable = $594

(real example)

My kids have stayed at several airbnbs domestically and abroad, ranging from totally basic, think hostel, to cool designer digs. In some cases it was really a private owner renting space, in other, it was more like an "underground" business.

There was a very interesting article in one the Silicon magazines that voted airbnb as company of the year (can't find it online); however, it gave an interesting overview of some of the legal challenges airbnb faces. Basically, some argue that some hosts are running hotels without installing safety features, like sprinklers, emergency exits, etc.

The other issue is that taxes aren't paid.

An airbnb article, especially about NYC

Actually, here's the article.

Agh, how do you edit????

http://www.inc.com/magazine/201412/burt-helm/airbnb-company-of-the-year-2014.html

nsm, just hit the little pencil in the upper right-hand corner of the comment you want to edit.

AirBnb I suspect will be a flash in the pan. Might be okay for that one-or-two night stay in an extra room in someone's house (aside from the legal challenges NSM/the article bring up), but for anything remotely pricey, i.e.: high-end, vacation rentals, etc., it is VERY expensive for the traveler (and for the vacation rental owner). You can probably find the same house on another site, or other sites and pay NO commission over and above the rent, if that site is a subscription site, which the homeowner pays.

As one, I can also assure everyone that vacation rental owners PREFER the subscription model, where WE pay the subscription fee and travelers don't pay any commission. OR, we think at the very most, any site fee should be split between homeowners and travelers, i.e.: homeowners pay a subscription to advertise their homes and travelers pay a small , set fee per booking, like $25. But this 6 - 12% commission on a weekly vacation rental that might be $2K or more a week? Ridiculous. AirBnb is not a good model for that kind of rental.

And a tip: the absolute BEST vacation rental sites are the small boutique sites that cater solely to that area. They tend to have higher quality rentals and attract better guests as well. Price is the same, though (or should be, unless the homeowner is pulling something he/she shouldn't' be). Cape Cod's is wennedavacation.com. Just a wonderful site. Very personal service. So look for those kinds of sites in resort areas rather than the big boys, which are just awful.

I love it because I love reading user reviews. That's very important to me. And my accommodations have been reasonable (equal to or less than a hotel room in the area) with greater amenities (kitchen). I only ever rent entire homes or apartments, mind you.

Jorge, I was mistaken. the Traveler commission rates on AirBnb are 6 - 12%, depending on the rent. The higher the rent, the lower the commission. I don't know what the break off points are, though.

The owner pays 3%. So AirBnb is getting 9 - 15%, which is very hefty. Consider the taxes the owner is paying, the rent the traveler is paying, esp. on a vacation rental/resort area where rents are high, mortgages, repairs and maintenance..it's absurd. There's a lot of upheaval right now in that industry because these sites are really gouging homeowners and travelers.

In addition, these rental sites are getting income from THOUSANDS, even hundreds of thousands of properties, while travelers are making ONE trip and homeowners are renting ONE property. from which they make their livelihoods. It is pure greed on the part of the rental sites. I do think that commission and PPB model will collapse at some point.

In addtion, as an owner, one thing about the commission/PPB sites is that, when you get an inquiry, they practically have to book the property before you can have any meaningful vetting conversation (for both sides). These sites have software that prevents - quite strenuously - any ability to give the inquirer a phone # to call (and vice versa), an email address, etc., and the reason is they don't want you referring the traveler to another site where you also advertise your property but where the traveler wouldn't have to pay the commission, which homeowners actually want to do for their guests.

My feeling is, if you have to disallow free communication, cause people to try to write in code (and even then, it fails) in order to keep customers from finding your competition, there is something wrong with your model.

robo, ALL VR sites have user reviews.

The ONLY thing I like about AirBnb is that it allows owners to review guests. We owners live in fear of a negative review and that keeps our feet to the fire and works to keep our rentals safe and clean, etc. But we are subjected to abusive guests because they are not subjected to being scrutinized and possibly denied a rental because they were deemed terrible renters. HOwever, the other sites are supposedly working on providing that as well.

They all do, however, it seems to me as a consumer that AirBNB and VRBO have the most users and hence the most reviews, therefore as a consumer I prefer them. Tripadvisor has some but I find usually they are for bigger enterprises like hotels. For me AirBNB has been affordable, popular and worked well so I'll continue to use it.

Flipkey is Tripadvisor. VRBO is HomeAway, as is VacationRentals.com. AirBnb is its own. VRBO was a GREAT site until HomeAway acquired it. Lots of battles going on over there between the VR owners and HA execs. Owners are not happy campers.

Again, AirBnb is great for what it started out being, finding a room for twenty-something to crash in, i.e.; hostels.

But for a family vacation rental, it's not good at all, UNLESS you like spending 6 - 12% over and above the rent when you otherwise don't have to do so. That's entirely up to you! And 6 - 12% on a $1500/wk. to $12k/week is pretty steep, IMO. Plus any fees: cleaning, pets, etc.

I don't find staying in someone else's house appealing at all. I agree also that the exemptions from safety requirements for hotels or inns is worrisome. At a friend's home I wouldn't worry that they don't have functioning smoke alarms, but at an air bandb, I might wonder if they can't make their mortgage payments without taking in short term boarders (which is essentially what this is) are they replacing the batteries in their alarms?

Not to mention it probably violates every lease agreement, and condominium and coop association bylaws. What responsible homeowner does that?

Many of the homeowners actually own their homes. Many condo associations are now banning airbnb, but on the other hand, many condo owners sublease their condos in various ways. And sometimes property management corporations also open up units for short term lease.

The places I've personally stayed in have all lived up to/exceeded my expectations. Staying in them is no different to me than staying at a vacation cottage. For example, one of the nicest places I stayed is a second summer home for people on the other side of the country. Another was a perfectly lovely, clean, centrally located studio in London for 90 pounds a night. At that budget I hesitate to think what kind of a hotel room I could have gotten.

This type of stay or home swapping certainly isn't for everyone. I think those who are ultimately risk-avoidant would always prefer hotels. But there is something very nice about staying at a home with things like spices and a BBQ, in a residential neighborhood, in exchange for a little risk.

Thanks robo zone 6a and tibbrix , is there a reason to why they split commission? Why not go for a "free model" for the user but with a price that has a 9-15% markup.

In the case of your example robo zone 6a, they make 3% of the $530 ($15.9) plus the actual fee of $64?

Hi Jorge,

I thought I would chime in as the original poster. I am not sure if your question is from the perspective of a guest, a host, or simply trying to understand the entire model.

As a guest, I don't perceive Air BnB fees as high at all. For example, the NYC booking I just did was a 7% fee to Air BnB. In a city where room tax is like 14.5%, the fee didn't even cross my mind. Looking at it now, it is a bargain. I was comparing Air BnB rates to hotel rates, but forgetting that I would save 7% because the fees are much less than NYC tax.

Perhaps there are other costs or fees hidden in my room rate (and of course there is the explicit cleaning fee in my room rate). In other words, is the host overcharging in order to pay a fee or tax? I don't think the apartment we are renting is overpriced. It is hard to compare, because there is no comparable hotel suite available that is as large and has a full kitchen and an outdoor deck, for example. But I was able to compare it to a 2br suite with a kitchenette and no outdoor space. The hotel has amenities the apartment does not, of course, and less risk. All in all I think that the Air BnB space, adjusting for size, location and amenities, prices far lower, as it should , because of the risks. The fee is de minimis.

The Air BnB fees can be high on a % basis because they include short stays in low priced accommodations. Of course if someone is staying someplace for 100 a night, the fee is going to be pretty high on a % basis, just to cover the cost of doing business.

Love love love airbnb! Have not used it in the states yet .. but have used it for many vacations over a 3 year period in Europe with only 1 minor bedding snafu that was remedied quickly. I would never book one that didn't already have at least a few reviews. We've done both apartments and houses ... we've done a few nights and for an entire week. It sure beats staying at a hotel. For the same price or less you have so many more amenities! Enjoy your trip! Be sure to read everything and there should be no surprises!!

I'm not certain why AirBnB splits fees -- I can't recall if the refund policies differ as we've had so few cancellations to process.

As a consumer, I do think there is some comfort from having a large booking site with a large number of user reviews vs. a local specialists. I've tried both.

As a host, we carry extra insurance, have smoke/CO2 detectors, safety equipment, all items to code and a 24 hour on-call concierge. AirBnB does handle all payment processing, booking, and provides supplemental insurance. They also provide a professional photographer.