Roses for the mountains - Own roots? Grafted on Rosa canina ?

23 years ago

I have been following a lot of threads on the American forums.

If I understand it rightly, rose enthusiasts in Canada and the northern U.S. often choose own root plants because if the winter is very cold and the canes die back, the plant will grow again from the root. Is this correct?

A grafted rose would not grow back?

I am interested in this because I would like to plant roses in the Vosges mountains at an altitude of 800 metres, exposed east and south. There will be snow for some months and temperatures can go down to -15Â°C or even more on occasion overnight. I do not want to have to go in for complicated protection.

Last year I planted a Cuisse de Nymphe Emue which survived, but it was a mild winter.

Would own roots be a good idea? and if so, is there anywhere in Europe where I could get them?

Alternatively, I have been told that a canina rootstock would be better than multiflora because the plant would start up later in spring ... Any comments ?

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Comments (9)

Pierre_R
23 years ago
Bonjour

Les temperatures minimales americaines sont souvent bien plus basses que les votres. De nombreux rosiers sont alors detruits jusqu'Ã la greffe. Seul repousse alors le portegreffe.

Canina est un bon porte-grffe pour votre rÃ©gion. Les rosiers de bouture sont difficile Ã trouver en Europe mais une bonne alternative pour vous est d'acheter des rosiers en Allemagne dont les temperatures hivernales atteignent -20Â°C presque partout. Kordes par exemple.

Amicalement votre
Pierre Rutten
Pete_Flowers
23 years ago
Bonjour,

Les rosiers greffÃ©s sur R.Canina et R.Laxa tiendront sans problÃ¨me, mais pas sur R.Multiflora inermis.
Plus important, Ã©viter les Hybrides de ThÃ©, les ThÃ©, Chinensis et Noisette.Galliques, Damas, Portland, Alba, Centifolia, Mousseux, Hybrides remontants et Rugosa s'en sortiront trÃ¨s bien.
Les rosiers francs de pied ne se vendent qu'aux U.S.A. et au Canada. La vraie raison, c'est que les porte-greffes en usage lÃ -bas sont des hybrides, Ã multiplier de bouture.ConsÃ©quence: des virus Ã la pelle...
Pour moi, l'avantage c'est surtout une plus grande longÃ©vitÃ© et une reprise mieux garantie.En effet, tous les rosiers n'acceptent pas les porte-greffes standard.Exemple:
"Empereur du Maroc" ne donne rien sur R.Laxa.
J'importe ces rosiers-lÃ des Etats-unis pour les avoir francs de pied, si le bouturage ne marche pas.
Bien Ã vous,
Pete.
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Great topic! I think most of us have pondered this question over the years. Generally, I'm with Jeri on this one (maybe influenced by similar coastal climate limits!). But, I also think that Malcolm has it right - it is more effective to actually compare results from using the same rose on its own roots vs grafted. So, I think I would combine the two perspectives here. Not only comparing the same rose, but also including how different local climates can determine which method is more appropriate. So, for me, I have been struggling with trying to encourage some of the hardier teas to thrive better in my PNW coastal garden, where our hot summer days are limited. I remember reading a comment from Paul Barden a while ago about how he would like to try Gloire de Dijon, as a grafted plant, to see if that would add more vigor. I second that particular desire! I think this ties in with what Jeri was also saying. Maybe I should try to get a grafted version of Lady Hillingdon and compare its progress to the plant I have (own roots), which has been slow ( to say the least!). Hmmm. It would certainly save room in our greenhouse if it worked! Happy new year, especially for all those Ox people! Ian
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I really hope some will be encouraged to try to propagate roses, now they can see it really is not that hard. And I really want to stress that it is very important to choose the right rose for the root stocks (I think it has become very clear that different root stocks do better in different parts of America or even Europe. I do prefer either R. Multiflora or Rosa Laxa. While some in Florida and other places might do better with R. Fortuniana or Dr. Huey. And Cass you are right! These rootstock are seedlings! But I am not sure that many will have the patience the raise these first, when it so much easier to root the cuttings. We live in a rose wonderland here since we have a very large rose production and many nurseries and access to so many thousands cultivars. We are always not very far from a nursery that sell rootstocks (a bundle with 100 (seedgrown) rootstocks cost about $) and I use about 200 myself every year, to propagate and exchange rare roses or roses that are simply very hard to get. In July here we send rose canes all over in damp newspaper and Plastic bags, to other rose-enthusiasts and nurseries and use the canes as "budwood". Many will however find it easier to use root-stocks grown from cuttings, since that is what they have available. Do use your seedlings if you have any. I am not sure we have the same nematodes here Cass. We do have some but we always bury the Scion at least 3-4 inches under soil level to protect from frost. In areas without harsh winters it seems to be more common to plant the rose with the scion in the surface or even above soil level.
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I actually like roses that sucker. I order from Pickering because I like THEM and want to show my support. But I was hesitant to try their roses after hearing that multiflora rootstock doesn't like alkaline conditions. However, I have had absolutely no issues with any of my roses on multiflora, even with both alkaline soil and water. So there must be something else I have or don't have/do that is different than say Jeri has/does that accounts for why roses on multiflora (or with its genes) do so well for me. Pickering hasn't updated their website about using laxa as a rootstock. I called last year to ask which of the roses I bought from them were on laxa and which on multiflora. The lady who I spoke with said none of the roses I bought from them were on laxa as they hadn't grafted anything on it (for I forget how many years she said). I expected that some were on laxa (and thought maybe that was why they were so happy in my garden), including the gallica Aimable Rouge, the damasks Duc de Cambridge and Pickering Four Seasons, the spinosissma William's Double Yellow, and the rugosas Wild Edric and Polareis. Not only are they not chlorotic but also Wild Edric (not even fed) and William's Double Yellow have particularly deep green foliage. Melissa
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Roseland has a very good selection and they do offer plenty of roses that will do well in zone 6 (& 5), you just need to do your homework. Yes they just pot up bare roots and grow them in a greenhouse, but our growing season is so short that the jump start in the greenhouse can make a big difference.. I've had mixed luck with own root. It really depends on the rose, and unfortunately there is often limited advice out there for those of us in cold zones. I've learned to not try to grow own roots sold as bands. I trust Northland Rosarium and High Country when they recommend a rose as suitable for zone 5. Just because a grower is not in a cold zone doesn't mean they don't offer hardy roses, but of course it's up to you to do your research regarding hardiness and vigor. I ordered from Rose Petals and Antique Rose Emporium for the first time this year and was impressed by the size of the roses received and the amount of first season growth. I've always been happy with roses purchased from Heirloom. Palatine's roses are top notch, multiflora rootstock certainly seems to like my acidic soil, but I also find roses grafted on Dr Huey grow well and I have never had a rose on Dr Huey revert to rootstock. Many of Ping Lim's Easy Elegance roses are hardy and are vigorous on their own roots, I often see them available at garden centers. Happy rosing, enjoy the experimenting, it's all part of the adventure!
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Field
23 years ago
Jo, you are correct in surmising that rosarians in the northern U.S. and Canada sometimes grow so-called own-root roses so that they will come back true to form if the tops are killed by winter temperatures. Budded or grafted roses that are killed in a similar manner will come back as the root stock variety, not as the flowering top variety.

Some of us in the more southern regions also grow own-root roses. But we do so because they tend to live and produce longer than budded roses, and we may have acquired them by rooting cuttings. Since, own-root roses seems to be difficult to find in Europe, you might consider doing the same with some of those you want. Take and root cuttings from someone else's plants.
JofromFrance
Original Author
23 years ago
Merci Pierre et Pete and thank you Field for your help. I am digesting all this information...

But I have another beginner's question, as I am considering a number of species roses as well as albas, gallicas, damasks etc. My mountain patch is pretty wild at the moment and I feel natural-looking plants would suit the site.

Are species roses always own-root, or can they be grafted too ? (If they are always own-root, this would make them all the more suitable).

A bientÃ´t, Jo
Pierre_R
23 years ago
Les pÃ©piniÃ¨res greffent habituellement les rosiers botaniques. Cependant certaines produisent des plantes bouturÃ©es plus Ã©conomiques pour les grandes plantations publiques. Souvent plus petites. La pÃ©piniÃ¨re Belle Epoque Ã Aalsmeer Hollande a une liste de rosiers arbuste et couvre-sol bouturÃ©s qui peut vous interesser.

Pierre Rutten
JofromFrance
Original Author
23 years ago
Merci Pierre
Je vais me renseigner.
Bien Ã vous, Jo
albertine
23 years ago
I prefer own root plants, but I also plant grafted roses, burying the graft with several inches of soil. The variety will eventually make it's own roots, and the graft is protected from the cold.
hendy
23 years ago
M.P Rutten
Avez-vous trouvÃ© le rosier nordique canadien (secteur nord ontarien) que vous recherchiez il y a quelques annÃ©es
hendy
Pierre_R
23 years ago
Hendy

Oui j'ai pu avoir des graines de Rosa Setigera de plusieurs origines.
La toile c'est magique!
D'un semis il y a trois ans j'espÃ¨re une belle floraison dans 5 mois! Le feuillage est complÃ¨tement Ã part.

Amicalement votre
Pierre Rutten

Roses for the mountains - Own roots? Grafted on Rosa canina ?

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Roses for the mountains - Own roots? Grafted on Rosa canina ?

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