Hi Carol, I can understand how the idea of building permits ever got started--protection of the public!--and the real needs for that in housing and other buildings. But if it gets applied to pergolas, it seems unrelated to public safety. How much do they charge someone for building a pergola? Perhaps the charge is so low that it's a mere nuisance? The main argument for a pergola is that it's very inviting and attractive the year around. I have seen pictures of posts with chain swags in a famous Paris public garden and the roses look fantastic there. As best I can recall, the posts were large pillars and fairly tall, though I cannot find a picture now. The rub would be what it would look like in the winter and early spring if you're not building large (wide) pillars, but are using wooden posts. If you are headed toward a circle of posts, a circle of tepees might look better when uncovered in the winter and early spring. Our first fence was professionally installed and the fence-builder's suggestion was that posts set into a gravel footing hole would work fine. Anything set up as our do-it-yourself building books suggested, with the posts in concrete, would have been noticeably more money so we went for what we could afford at the time, and that was already plenty expensive. That method did work reasonably well, although not quite totally solidly if you pushed against a post. After about 20-25 years the posts had rotted in the ground, though, and my husband had to do the fence posts over again. At one time, our fencing on two sides held thin "farm" wire mesh fencing (6 feet high) and I loved the looks of it, because beyond the fence were beautiful woodsy areas I liked to be able to see and the fencing didn't detract or distract from that view. I think the sections were about 8' each, as you are considering for yours. I'm no expert at all on rabbits, but I wonder whether a fence that is only 3' high would be tall enough. I think, though I'm not positive as to the exact route the rabbit took, that a rabbit here has jumped up to some landscape timbers that were 3' or higher off the ground (to trim way back our Julia Child roses for us). Rabbits love roses. The best way to make sure you have no deer problems is to prevent deer from finding your roses and vegetables in the first place. I'd suggest that you not wait to see what happens, because once hungry deer have a memory of getting food at a certain place, it's much, much more difficult to ever keep them out. There's a book that discusses keeping out deer that's well worth reading now (right now, to help you plan). Your local library ought to have it, but if not, it's relatively inexpensive to buy from Amazon: "Deerproofing Your Yard & Garden" by Rhonda Massingham Hart. Deer aren't kept out by rose hedges, not if jumping them is to a spot they are already familiar with, such as would be the case for them while the roses were growing up. They don't jump into areas they can't see or are unfamiliar with, though. Deer will eat roses, all roses, even very thorny ones, if they are hungry enough. That tends to occur in winter and early spring during some years, but not all. (After a famine, generally caused by more breeding than the land's vegetation can support, the deer don't reproduce well, so the deer population pressure on the land lowers for a few years then; that cycle can mislead you into thinking that you've solved the deer access problem when you haven't.) Your gorgeous front gate with an arch will be wonderful, and so inviting. I've seen many pictures of that being done, and don't think I've ever seen one that looked less than wonderful! Best of luck! Mary Here is a link that might be useful: Phillip Oliver's pictures offer lots of landscaping ideas

I think you'll enjoy her, monsoon99. I don't know anywhere you can walk in and buy a canned plant of her anymore. I have begged a few locals to include her in their mixes, even promising to promote them as sources, but so far, no takers. I wish I had the abiltiy... You should be able to purchase her on line from Burlington, Rogue Valley and Vintage. They will all be small plants which can be encouraged to grow more rapidly if planted in a can to keep the roots warm. GHat is excellent own root. The Ventura County Rose Society Auction should be in spring and they often have plants of her included. If you are of the "immediate gratification" mentality (NOT a judgement, simply a suggestion), you CAN plant more than one, but I personally wouldn't as it is NOT needed. One will easily cover the area you've stated and won't out grow it, where two very likely will and possibly give you too dense a plant, allowing for greater potential for disease issues. Grandmother's Hat is very healthy, but CAN black spot under the right conditions. ANY rose can have health issues under the right conditions. Some are just more prone to it than others. This one is a survivor! Which Laguna are you asking about? There are three on HMF and I haven't grown any of them. Don Juan you should be able to find most nurseries and garden centers (NOT "home improvement stores") that sell canned roses. It can be a little slow getting started, but that is a characteristic of large flowered climbers which flower heavily. A plant can usually bloom or grow. Few do both as well all the time. There will be equivalent roots to balance long canes and the plant is going to grow those before it puts out the wood. Finding one already started in a can, preferably from last year or earlier, will allow you more immediate gratification. Dortmund...well, it can be a very good rose. It's excellent for harsh, arctic type climates. I have one at a client's house in Old Orchard, Valencia. She loves it. It is VIGOROUS, terribly prickly, glossy, dark green foliage and it will mildew on the peduncles and prickles in these climates. It flowers reliably and needs deadheading to force repeat flowering faster. It will repeat without it, but it isn't as "tidy", so that will depend upon your taste and how OCD you are about maintenance. My client loves it for two reasons, it was a plant installed in the garden by a very loved friend who designed it in the first place and who has sinced passed away, and it reminds her of Bougainvillea, which is not sufficiently cold hardy there. I frequently hack large hunks of it off to keep it on her wall, cut out large clusters of spent flowers and hips and at least once a month, have to hose it out to remove all the debris and spider webs it collects. I appreciate it for the accomplishment it is in breeding. I do find the foliage attractive, sort of like plastic holly; it does impress me with the quantity and reliability of bloom for such a cold hardy rose being grown in a warmer climate. I agree it is a suitable replacement for a Bougainvillea where bougies won't grow, or are 'iffy'. Do I want one in my garden? Um, no. Would I use it for breeding? Perhaps. It's more a personal taste issue. Is it a good rose? In many ways, yes, very. It keeps the neighbors on their side of the wall and covers twenty feet of unattractive concrete block. It does what it is supposed to and makes its owner happy. It makes me happy to be able to keep it looking good to keep her smiling. Dortmund should be fairly readily available canned. Again, a more developed one will provide more immediate gratification. A repeat blooming Cl. Mlle. Cecile Brunner...probably your best bet is going to be buying one on line from a source which states theirs is from the reliable repeater. An easier way would likely be to buy a Spray Cecile Brunner. It's a more vigorous bush form which flowers continually and produces wood more elongated than the original seedling, yet not as over powering as the "climber". There is a range of traits a climbing sport can express. Observing a large block of Iceberg will illustrate that perfectly. You'll find anything from more dwarf, very lightly prickled to nearly prickle free all the way to seven foot "bushes" with large, sharply hooked prickles. It isn't an either-or, but a continuum. Where the genes of the bud used to create that particular plant fell on that continuum determines what that particular plant is going to express. Climate and culture will massage that expression greatly. Mlle Cecile Brunner is one of the most bullet proof plants of any kind you can grow in Southern California. The more vigorous types tolerate heavier pruning better than the "dwarf" bush. Once established, it is rudely healthy; continuous flowering (unless you have the spring bloom climbing sport); extremely shade "tolerant" in this climate; a very "long suffering" plant which will often out last the gardeners and gardens in which it is planted. I love that it was named for the 8 year old daughter of Pernet's major competitor. In the early 80s, there was a lovely lady from the Riverside area who volunteered in the herb garden at the Huntington, and who had her mother's climbing Cecile. She made rose petal jelly from it. It was DELICIOUS! In our climate, you can plant Mutabilis, the Banksias and Cecile and they will just GROW! They're seldom afflicted by any pests or diseases and will out grow anything thrown at them. If you want something very similar in a slightly different color, take a look at Perle d'Or, often called yellow or apricot Cecile Brunner. It isn't available as a climber, but it is as gorgeous and wonderful as Cecile. If it helps, Grandmother's Hat, Perle d'Or and all forms of Cecile Brunner are frequently found in old gardens and cemeteries where they've been forgotten and just allowed to do their own thing. THAT is MY kind of rose! Kim

Mad Gallica is a real expert on roses and I've learned lots from her posts, but I'm going to disagree with her today a bit. I have an Autumn Sunset climbing rose, bred by Mike Lowe in southern NH. It has double, yellow to apricot, medium scented roses. It repeats on and off for me all summer (my only repeating rose) and has overwintered for me with no protection other than its usual mulch, a deeply planted bud union, and nearness to a large builing. It grows to well over my head in an arching form (I haven't gotten a trellis up yet as I thought it would take several years to get big enough to need one) and has made it through either 1 or 2 central NH winters (last winter was a bit warmer than usual, maybe to only -15, but had little snow cover to serve as protection) with virtually no damage. I really like this one, and my husband has noticed it, and he doesn't necessarily notice everything in the garden. I do agree that most climbers aren't worth the garden space in colder areas of New England, but this one is a gem.

What direction does that back door face? If it is on the south facing wall it should be doable. I don't have a garage so I keep all my potted roses outside all winter. I place them along my south facing wall (warmest exposure, most sun and some wind protection). I pack them with leaves and wrap them in burlap. So far I've had very good success with this. Even in the two polar winters most of them came through fine.