Let's face it, there are people (not necessarily on this MB) who object to Monty Don simply because he's had the audacity to step into AT's shoes when the latter decided to retire from presenting GW.

I agree with all that has been said about Monty, thank goodness we still have Beechgrove Garden in Scotland with Jim McColl.

So I take it you're not keen then Alan

At the moment, the programme is also running on a satelite channel. Does anyone know if its the current series or last year's? They are experimenting with different types of compost containers. Thing is, I'd like to introduce a compost heap now, but looks like I'll have to wait unit the end of the series when Monty provides the results (unless anyone here knows what's best already)

Camilla Parker Bowles? Carol Klein has got a northern accent and a spiky henna'd haircut, for God's sake!! Surely you can detect some difference between the two?

Kazzie- I think the composting containers was last years GW as they have moved them from that area this series.
Alan how could you possibly call Rachels children brats. I hate that word.Even though sprog is much worse, Kid is bad enough, why can't people call them children anymore. Have you not got any children yet? I am getting used to monty Don now but no one will beat Alan Titchmarsh for me. I liked Geoff Hamilton as well. I thought that Chris Beardshaw would have taken over as he was already on the programme and I find he is enthusiastic and easy to listen to. I like Joe Swift and don't have a problem with Carol Klein as I have seen her on a programme before and I think also at chelsea. I am finding the programmes quite boring now though.
Alison

Alison, you're the first person I've heard complain about 'kids' - apart from myself. I have children or daughters or girls. Goats have kids ;-)
Having said that, I don't like people constantly referring to their offspring as 'cherub' either....

AJC 1, I find the tone of both your comments a bit unpleasant, and I think the language you have used to refer to these three women coarse and inappropriate to an open forum. I have no particular axe to grind concerning any of them, either.

Well said Garden Nerd, my sentiments entirely. There is absolutely no need to get so personal. Sounds to me like we have a mysogonist in the boards.

Well I looked in tonight (22/04/05) and found myself trying to decide whether MD and the rest were just uninspiring in their delivery, or whether they were giving out far less information than the old team under AT. Like him or not, you can't deny that Titch adds plenty of little 'tit-bits', which give life to what might otherwise be a bit of mundane information.

It comes to something when the only thing I can remember from tonight's effort is that last bit on planting pumpkin seeds. Not because it was revelationary by any stroke of the imagination, but because I remember muttering to myself that I've sown thousands of melon, cucumber, marrow and squash seeds in my time and have never noticed any appreciable difference in results from those sown on their edge or flat!

I must admit I missed last nights, it's no longer a 'must watch' programme for me.

Think you have hit the nail on the head Dave, there doesn't seem to be any passion in the programme anymore, not to mention the sense of humour that AT brought with him, he made me want to go and try new things, his enthusiasm was infectious. None of the present presenters seem to have that, they all seem rather too laid back and bored, going through the motions as it were.

I want a programme that informs, rather than dictates and gives me the little snippets that are now, sadly lacking.

Totally agreed with your post on the BBC boards by the way, pity so many people take what TV personallities say as 'gospel' rather than listen to people with as much expertise as you have.

You're all quite right to notice how much worse it is. Basically, it's been brought back in-house by the BBC and dummbed down - up until Alan T's departure it was produced by a classy independent, Catalyst, probably for a fair bit more money than the current cash-trapped Blue Peter-style incarnation. But, like a lot of the BBC's valuable heritage, those days are gone.

Steve - Brighton

Hi' I have to agree GW is very dissapointing now. The Berryfield garden is not a nice garden. A garden has to flow to keep your attention & Berryfield certainly doesn't for me. I appreciate it is in early stages but I cannot see some thing spectacular coming from it! I don't want to get personal about the presenters but I do feel they leave a lot to be desired. As for the "gardening channel on satalite, ok if you are into the instant garden. I can't stand these programs. I always thought you & your garden grow together not over night! Is it part of todays throw away society culture?

I find GW a disappointment as well. In my humble opinion do I think an audio-visual medium DOES require charisma and 'screen presence' on the part of the presenters however much we might not like to acknowledge a factor that might seem shallow or superficial. It isn't unimportant for this medium - it's vital. I would put charisma/screen presence on the 'job spec' - and none of the current crop of presenters have it. Chris B has charisma but he seems to have vanished as does Rachel but she is on maternity leave. GW also has too many contributors and this also is detrimental to the cohesiveness and 'watchability' of the show. All of this is compounded by a decline in the 'content' of the show. Just my opinion... exercise your 'on'/'off' button according to your own taste and sensibilities.

Just saw GW last night. Has Monty had a facelift? Last series he looked positively wisened. But what really gets me is how much had they spent on plants? There was Joe planting in the courtyard, Monty and his victorian flower bed (which looked nothing like by the way) and Carol filling tubs with large specimens - they have to have have something to do - but a run down of the cost might be revealing . . . ..Geoffrey H wouldn't like it

mmmmmmmmm I actually watched half of the 1 hour prog on bedding plants as I wanted to see which large company they visited to find out the latest trend. It was interesting to see what the public choose as their fav plants. I must admit I was shocked to see the presenter choose some scruffy looking grass as her fav. The Ball Colgrave trial grounds are a mind boggling range of plants of every kind-and she chose grass. Ok a particular type but at the end of the day grass is grass. We have never found them top sellers so not many people hold the same opinion.
I was somewhat concerned at the amount of bedding planting going on in early May. I know a voice over warned about cold weather etc but I felt it was wrong as much of the country is unsafe weather wise until late May.
As for Ginger sorry Carol planting orange Ranunculus we sell them as a spring bedder as soon they will be dieing down for the summer-so not really something to plant now.
Finally I turn to Mr Donn where he was showing plants available in sizes-how you can buy mature plants or starter plants. Good idea show the public what is available. Some dont want the hassle of growing things on-others do but at least show the same plant when comparing.
He first shows a veregated geranium in around a 3 inch pot with flower buds and states it will cost around £2. He then shows the smaller option which you can choose. As this plant would have been cutting raised does he show a rooted cutting starter plant? No he shows a tray of seedling bedding geraniums which is a completely different product other than the fact they are both in the same family. God help the gardening public if this is what the BBC offers.

I feel sorry for the presenters tarnishing their reputations by having to front this flakey tosh - both Monty Don and Carol Klein are on record earlier in their careers admitting they either don't know about, or actively dislike, much of the stuff they are now called on to promote for Gardeners World. Mony and Carol doing an exotic 'Jungle themed' garden? And after what he's said and written in the past, how Monty has the gall to front the Chelsea Garden Show...?! Will he be pimping on Groundforce next...?

You should be blaming the BBC for the poverty of the current editorial concept, NOT Carol's hair (the presenters are only mouthpieces, they don't make the programme). All the same, people who sell out their own integrity to this degree have only themselves to blame when others start to see them as biddable muppets rather than honest experts.

Steve - Brighton

Oh, Peadea, I'm not the only one who plays "Spot the Facelift", then? Surely he wouldn't have...... would he?

G. Hamilton. Now, THERE was a garden show presenter!

Yes even Sarah Raven has gone trendy while Chris, Rachael and Bob seem to have just disappeared. Too much money being spent and the presenters are arrogant. Geoff Hamilton was always trying to save gardeners money but now it feels like the presenters are advertising for the garden centres Yuch

I just hope Monty Don doesnt use Gardeners World as yet another way of destroying the British Agricultural and Horticultural industry as he currently is via newspaper articles and radio interviews concerning polytunnel use in strawberry production. While it is bad enough his campaigns against there use can impact fruit production and drive it abroad to parts of the world where workers rights may be low and the use of chemicals may not be so controlled this could also have an impact on planning departments in the UK with a negative impact on horticulture as a whole.

The first (I think the first?) case of polytunnels being banned by the planning inspector was upheld at appeal last week.

Here is a link that might be useful: Waverley vs polytunnels

oh dear its a sad sad day for agriculture/horticulture in the UK. We might as well import all our produce from abroad the way we are going then we can all stand in supermarkets and complain why everything is foreign these days !!!!! I can now see such a planning ban being misinterpreted across the UK by local planners having an impact on Horticulture as a whole.

Maybe not the first? See link. I imagine (without much knowledge of commercial food production) the solution should be a change in buying habits rather than importing all our food. Although it seems that polytunnels are becoming a staple of the organic food industry. Strictly economically, it probably makes sense to import all our food and treat the countryside as a large "park" for urban workers, but there are some pretty good reasons why we don't want to go all the way down that road :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Case in Norfolk from 2004

leave Monty alone! In my opinion he's a nice bloke and comes across as such.

Fisbey if Monty kept his mouth shut I wouldnt have a problem but he doesnt. He forces organics down your throat via the BBC and uses his standing as a Garden celeb to give himself some muscle when spouting about polytunnel use and Strawberry farming via the media. From a strawberry point of view many growers are already sat on by Supermarkets and so need things such as tunnels to produce a product quicker and for a longer period. Monty may have done what he wants to do-but at what cost?

I try and garden organically and I find Monty Donn very annoying and not quite so well informed as he thinks he is, some of his views on British agriculture are way off the mark. When he can come up with his qualifications and several years of commerical experience in agriculture I might accept he is entitled to an informed opinion. I heard him speak on Jeremy Vines show a few weeks ago about the polytunels and it boiled down to the fact he didn't like seeing them from his back yard and it was yet another opportunity to shout yahboo sucks at commercial agriculture.********************* Shrubs n bulbs, it makes no economic nor national security sense to import all our food and a parkland style would change the countrysides appearance quite a lot, what we see today is the result of over 4,000 years of British agriculture. I do agree however that it's consumers wanting fresh and perfect strawberries in December that creates a demand farmers would like to have a slice of and that, dare I say it, many people simply want to pay the very lowest price for their food and spend the spare on something else. The supermarket stranglehold on agriculture is quite alarming.******************* Of course, back to the subject in hand, I also remember a number of long threads here a few years ago complaining about Alan Titchmarsh not being Geoff Hamilton and discussions many years ago that Geoff was no Percy ............... and so it goes on.

Apologies if this needs a separate thread, but did anyone see "Christine's Garden" the other night? Now, Christine seems like a lovely lady and would make an excellent friend/ neighbour - but a broadcaster???? I am just appalled that we are being offered this kind of vapid stuff in the name of horticultural broadcasting. I reckon my garden would have been more interesting than hers (why didn't they offer me a show?); indeed, just about any average gardener's efforts would have been more interesting. I presume the BBC was trying to fill up some space ultra cheaply with this "weblog" approach.

I thought she seemed like a nice woman too, but it looked like she only had herself to contend with, no children to get under her feet etc or to mess up the garden with their bikes and toys. I don't think this is a one off. I think it said it was a series, so it looks like she will be back on soon enough. I could have done without some of the language she used,not that she swore really but I don't like any bad language, but on the whole I liked how enthusiastic she was about gardening. I must admit I expected her garden to be much better than it was and for her to have shown us a really lovely garden that she had been looking after instead of Olive and Johns garden that had seen better days. If there are other programmes I will watch them to see how she goes on, but like you say, your garden probably was better and I am sure that my garden could also have easily met the criteria they wanted for a programme. Maybe the difference was that she had a qualification in horticulture whereas I have none only hard work. In fact if you would like to see a glimpse of my garden you can find it on www.the-horsfalls.co.uk --on a different subject have you noticed that no matter where you start a new paragraph on here now, it doesn't give you one and even puts your name next to the last thing you wrote when you have placed it underneath.--- it's a bit annoying as I like to paragraph things as it is often a place I want to say something different. Oh well. good job I have my own forum as well where I can do it how I like. Alison

One good thing about Christine's Garden ... it was REAL. Real gardens and a real person. Maybe not the greatest gardens in the country or the most polished presenter, but at least not another "how to buy a new garden" show. I actually found it ultimately a little disappointing in that it ended up being about people and not about gardens. It is one of my pet peeves that documentaries these days almost invariably fail to be about the subject matter and instead look for some artificial "human interest" angle. Then they end up writing a drama and presenting it as if it were fact. AAARRGHHH, no paragraphs again, that's getting on my wick! I need another beer ...

In defence of Monty Donn and his ilk Re: Gardeners World: Having just read the comments about the programme, I come to the defence of Monty Donn, I whole-heartedly agree with Monty Donn's gardening techniques and principles. It is precisely because of people like Monty Donn that our wild life is now gradually being restored to it's former beautiful glory. Humans, Plants and wild life benefit.
In my opinion it is totally and absolutely, unnecessary and "unproductive" to make personal hurtful comments about people such as Monty Donn on this or any other site, when they are being "sensitive" "holistic" and "caring" in their approach to gardening. Monty Donn is being "holistic", "caring" and ( to use a metaphor)is "far-sighted", unlike some. The Gardeners World would be a much nicer, happier place if everyone had the same "holistic" mind-set, I feel.

Sorry, Gillian, at the time this thread originally went through I didn't have strong opinions about Monty. OK, so he was a bit preachy but I can live with that. Unfortunately, I've had the opportunity over this summer to discover that he is far worse than most of the bad things people have written on here. I could write more but it would be pretty slanderous, lets just say I don't see him driving the "holistic" gardening approach (regardless of whether you think that is a good or a bad thing), rather he is hitching a ride on the bandwagon. Add my vote to the "no" list.

I'm sure I read somewhere recently that Monty Don was supposed to be opening an event and didn't show up. Maybe there was an unavoidable situation that had arisen but if so no one had been informed about it.
I still find the programme a bit boring nowadays. Please bring back Alan Titchmarsh and his enthusiasm.
Alison

Here is a link that might be useful: Alison's pond and garden

If this is relevant, I have read somewhere that Monty has suffered from periodic severe depression for many years.

He suffers from seasonal affective disorder (SAD).

That aside, I dislike his irritating, preachy, condescending style of presenting. I agree that GW has serious faults as a programme. It lacks a sense of direction, unity, or humour! Berryfields is less a garden and more a series of experiments/areas of dabbling. Too much time is spent describing the instant effect that can be obtained by buying and planting large and costly specimens, often in large and costly containers. Occasional excellent features, often with Carol Klein, who has real enthusiasm and asks intelligent questions when interviewing other plantspeople, are few and far between.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I could well do without that Sarah Raven, too. Every feature she's involved comes across as an advert for her "cutting garden".

And while I can understand that not everybody is a big fan, I miss Alan Titchmarsh!

What has happened to Alan Titchmarsh? He doesn't seem to have been on anything for ages. Or maybe it's just that I've hardly had the TV on since March!

Don't fret, there is supposed to be a new series on the Beeb called "Great British Summer", with the Titch narrating. And his voice has been heard behind a few other things too. Not seen his rug ... err, i mean face ... recently though ;)

Great British Summer wasnt up to much.

If you want to see a real rubbish gardening programme that will make GW shine again try and see the 'The Greenmount Garden' on BBC1 NI.

I spoke to someone in the know re GW. Aparantly Monty et al are told what to say and what will be featured.

I hate it when they are digging a plant to divide and it's obvious the plant has already been dug and it's just sitting back in the hole.

Leave Carol alone she is enthusiastic but she cant be as she is under the thumb of the producers. Dont you remember her being on TV maybe 10 years ago? She was great then

Yep, I think Carol Klein is great as a role model for us lady gardeners of a certain age (and there are legions). I like the spikey hair. I'm sure she's had a facelift though, but I'll forgive her, she's probably been told to do that by the GW Big Brother as well!

Oh my GW thread has come back alive.
I see we have some more active debate on the subject of GW Monty and Carol etc.
I do not agree with you Gillian. GW is a BBC program funded by the residents of the UK via their licence fee.
Therefore it is perfectly acceptable to comment on the presenters if you feel they are at fault or are in some way providing a poor show.
They should expect this as they are "celebs" on tv.

Yep - lots of true stuff amongst the general comments. The issue is mor about the switch from plants to gardens so now we have people telling us how to design gardens (many of whom do not even have gardens), an almost total focus on instant gardening (hence the focus on buying big plants for instant effect), a swing towards the silly kind of presenter - and what we have lost is the whole point of it all - the plants. Groups of plants come in fashion, but many of the things we grow and plant have lifespans far in excess of the presenters never mind fashion. So now we have Chelsea coverage that is all about gardens constructed in a few days and very little about the interesting stuff in the main marquee. The best and most valuable parts of the programs are when they hand over to the nurserymen/garden owners and let them tell us about their loves and losses, successes and failures, hates and loves. These are real people and we can learn from them a lot more than from some charismatic presenter. The benefit of Geoffrey Smith and Geoff Hamilton was that they were gardeners first and foremost - and they allowed us access to their gardens and knowledge and experience. The nearest to a decent gardening program these days is the documatary about Kew.

Best regards

Chris

I totally forgot Gardeners world was on on friday even though I had seen it in the TV mag and meant to watch it. I also noticed that there was also the return of the first series of Christines Garden an hour earlier so maybe it had better ratings than we thought. Needless to say I also forgot to watch that as well. Goodness knows where my head was....
I only watched part of the great british summer and did that mainly for Alan Titchmarshes voice but found it a bit boring as well so haven't watched it since. I loved Groundforce when it was first out even though it was instant gardening. It gave an idea of what could be achieved from a mess which is also why I enjoy the 'digging deep' programme on BBC2. The presenters are a bit quirky but they always seem to come up with the goods at the end of the day and they make me smile.
Plantzzman did you once have a small forum where you talked a bit about a charity based garden you worked on. I might be wrong so accept my appologies but if I am right how is that garden going at the moment?
Alison

Here is a link that might be useful: Alisons nature reserve

If this is relevant, I have read somewhere that Monty Donn sucks the blood out of bats...

Hmm.

Monty is very popular even in Belgium. There are NO gardening shows in this country, except those on the BBC. Why would you as tax payers want to sponsor a programme that advocated the use of expensive pesticides and fertilizers? I'd rather spend my money on plants and use free compost and mulch.

The new show on growing your own vegetables (organically!) is great as well, though most of you would probably disagree.

Barry brussels - Monty Donn has always been a stickler for organic ways of growing everything not just veg - so what programme you are referring to in saying " a programme that advocated the use of expensive pesticides and fertilizers" it certainly isn't BBC's Gardeners World.

I think Barry is implying that our dislike of Monty means we would prefer programs that advocate pesticides and fertilisers. Personally I find that the use of license fee money to advocate minority (but not crackpot!) subjects is valid. So it is about time someone produced one that shows the sensible and appropriate use of chemicals, because I just switch off when yet another organic evangelist starts spouting forth. My personal pet hate is organic products that won't tell you what they are, such as "100% organic bloom stimulant comprised of the pure essence of special flowers", what the h$!! is that supposed to be?

I saw the first episode of growing your own veg. It was OK, I guess, I'm not really excited by vegetables, but I do have some garlic growing now :)

I have just watched growing your veg and felt that Carol Klein was getting just a little desperate in her use of superlatives to enthuse about peas and carrots. I admire Carol immensly and thought her coverage of Chelsea was the best I have seen in a long time but I think she should be given more freedom over content. Gardening is a fascinating and wonderful subject but TV coverage has worsened and worsened with the kind of dumbing down that does no favours to anyone. I would love to tune in to an intelligent and exciting gardening programme but it frankly doesn't exist at present. There is an audience for an intelligent and articulate programme that captures some of the magic we all experience when we produce a wonderful plant from a tiny seed or cutting, or dash out to the garden to see the first snowdrop or hellebore in spring. A programme that guides beginners but also appeals to the experienced amongst us. We also need to see more plant appeal and less emphasis on design that will seem old hat by next year. Come on TV and ask us what we would like to see. Monty Don is just a little too worthy, Alan Titchmarsh did better but I would still like to see new presenters who really know their stuff. Personal slating of individuals doesn't really help. If they had more say over content perhaps they would have more appeal to gardeners. What do you think?

Because the atrociosly condecending Twitmarsh is no longer there. I used to love screaming at him. Thank G... he's gone
Carol Klein is fabulous and sexy. Monty is very good, - the best since Hamiton. But they should take on board the fact the if they allow themselves to follow directors orders and become rediculously over enthusiastic they will finish being canned. This has happened to every TV gardener in the last 40 years. Think on.

I sometimes wonder if part of the problem with gardening progs is that they are all pretty much of a muchness. Each year on Gardener's World, the same things come up time and time again. Of course, we all do it ourselves, annual routines are common in the garden but perhaps several decades of it and endless make-over and design progs have become boring.

I don't care for Chelsea FS coverage, I don't particularly need telling how to sow Godetia and the like in the same manner year in year out, if I wanted to paint the fence blue, I really don't need someone telling me why it's such a great idea to upset the neighbours who have to look at it. I know there is a place for these programmes but it would be lovely if there was something more original or more specialised, without being yet another a reality TV show.

Why is there nothing on the National Collections or some of the large and established gardening groups and societies? Seems to me there is a wealth of topics that could be covered, more veg, trees, plant families etc that are largely ignored.

Well I have to say that I am really surprised almost two years later to see my Gardeners World topic still going strong. Alison Froglady sorry you have me mistaken for someone else- never had my own forum or charity garden ! Its interesting to read everyones views. Some have said how the program repeats itself each year- well yes it does with certain items such as seed sowing, making a hanging basket, planting bulbs etc but thats like anything- see it as recycling in another fashion LOL.
I guess we all get bored with tv programs after a while which is to be expected I guess. I didnt watch much of Carol's veg program mind you I wouldnt as I dont like her- Lyeme sorry I tried closing my eyes just and thinking of Carol "Carol Klein is fabulous and sexy" Err NO.
I did watch Monty Don and the heroin Junkies or what ever it was called if only to see Monty flailing out of his depth when they didnt really do the organic thing- give us cans of pop and chocolate bars ! Respect for trying though.
As regards the organic side of GW I think if they were realistic and promoted both options organic and non it would be a more balanced program. Nobody is suggesting bathing the plants in chemicals but sometimes just a quick waft works wonders with no residues if applied correctly.

i gave up watching GW a good while ago..i find it tedious and very borin, i have been a pro gardner though now semi retired for many years and have yet to find a programm that caters for the everyday gardner, perhaps i should write to the BBC offering my services, i believe many on here would do a better job presenting an interesting gardening program than the professionals.

I agree with the views posted here. However, though I don't enjoy GW anymore, I do enjoy Monty Don's books. Not full of information, for sure, but nice to thumb through on a rainy day. Chris B would be a good presenter for GW - his solo shows were lovely to watch (while they lasted)!
Also, many folks get into gardening for the first time through garden design, myself included. I knew next to nothing about plants ten years ago. Then I got a job in the garden design industry and now I complain when a presenter doesn't give Latin names! Imagine that. . . =)
While there's nothing wrong with garden design TV shows per se, it does seem as if ALL shows with gardens or plants in them are about design, and that certainly is frustrating.

Buttercuplady, your name isn't Christine is it ;) I think you have to give the Beeb credit for trying even if Gardener's World is rather poor and often just plain wrong. A Year at Kew, Christine's Garden, The Trees That Made Britain, several interesting documentaries in the last year. Not every program to everybody's taste but some that I really like. I was amazed that they didn't can Christine's Garden, but anecdotally she is very popular.