I'm wondering, Carol, how long you will have at each of the gardens - two days isn't much to do all four. We easily did both Sissinghurst and Great Dixter in a single day. We gave a day to Wisley. It's bit, and a terrific garden but we were unimpressed with their rather ordinary rose garden - the long, long, long border and rock garden were much better. We went to Mottisfont several different days, and I would think it needs at least half a day, if possible - hope you aren't too jet lagged on your first day in England. Mottisfont's rose gardens aren't huge, but there is so much to look at and it is so beautifully done that I couldn't stop looking! I think it might be open a bit later than usual in June, if you are staying nearby. Janelle and I did fine on our first day in the UK without a nap, and really adjusted without much jet lag. I slept in a bit later than usual the first few mornings - she didn't. When I went to London with my husband some years ago, I didn't do as well - literally fell asleep on my feet while visiting a museum. Maybe it was an advantage to be outside in fresh air, sunshine, and gardens rather than inside. I got sick on the trip to London, but was utterly healthy and thriving during the garden trip. In any case, your trip sounds wonderful. I think you've said that your husband isn't really a rose garden kind of guy, so how nice that you are getting these two days plus a day at Kew. My husband isn't much for gardens, but he was pretty enthusiastic about Kew. I still think that Kew is a great choice, but have to say that we heard good things about St. Albans from the people on Clair Martin's Great Rosarians trip last year. It wasn't open to the general public but was open to RNRS members and tour groups. We could always have joined the RNRS and gotten to see it, but we just didn't make the time. Anita

For sericia, next spring watch the color of the thorns; sericia ptericantha and R. pteragonis are two possibles. Then spend some time looking at many, many pictures of R. canina. In your part of the world it's a widely used rootstock and I'd guess that four or five of yours are slightly different caninas. (This fall they'll have good hips for making jelly). Something else to remember: the garden doubtless now has more shade than when it was first planted. This sort of situation may reduce or totally stifle rebloom, so when you label a rose a once bloomer, just remember that with more sun it might be a repeater.

I wanted to learn about old roses, so I planted a bunch, from many different types -- whatever I could fit in my tiny yard. So I have a few each of Bourbons, Chinas, Damasks, Gallicas, Hybrid Chinas, Hybrid Perpetuals, Damask Perpetuals, Mossy Perpetuals, and two species ancestors -- R. moschata and R. fedtschenkoana. I also have a few each of different types of modern roses, such as Floribundas, Hybrid Teas, Hybrid Musks, Polyanthas, and whatever you want to call David Austin's roses. This may sound like I have hundreds, but I don't. In some cases, it's just two or three or four of each class. Then, since I ran out of room, I asked if I could plant some date-appropriate roses at an old church cemetery in my town. Great! So starting with the once-blooming oldies, I got to plant Albas, Centifolias, Mosses, Hybrid Chinas, Hybrid Bourbons, Gallicas, Damasks, and some old-but-not-OGR tree-climbers. So, smithdale1z8pnw, what's an OGR? Well, roses were divided into three basic categories -- Species, Old Garden Roses, and Modern Roses. The dividing line between OGRs and MRs is often repeated as being 1867 -- but that's only part-true. It's not when the rose came out, but when its class came out. So while the Tea rose 'Rosette Delizy' came out in 1922, it's still an OGR because the Tea class was around before 1867. Polyanthas as a class were recognized after 1867, so they're technically not OGRs but rather MRs. So even though the Polyantha rose 'Perle d'Or' (introduced 1883) is older than the aforementioned RD, PdO is considered a Modern Rose because Polanthas were introduced as a class after 1867. Why the year 1867? That's the year 'La France' was introduced, and was later granted a new class -- Hybrid Tea. While a few older hybrids between Teas and Hybrid Perpetuals were around from before, this was the first one considered different enough that it didn't easily fit into either Tea or Hybrid Perpetual -- so they came up with a new class. And that was deemed the dividing line between the "old" and the "modern". But there are Modern Rose classes which are embraced by fans of the OGRs. Why? Because even though they came out after Hybrid Teas, they retain an "old charm". Hybrid Musks (Modern Rose class) were bred to emulate and expand upon Noisettes (Old Garden Rose class). Polyanthas (Modern Rose class) were sort of like hardier Chinas (Old Garden Rose class). And then David Austin came along, and the "old flower form" became popular again -- even if the plants behave more like Modern Roses. Now, here's the rub -- where does "antique rose" fit in? I think of the word "antique" as referring to something at least 100 years old -- and I'm not alone in using the 100-year mark for the definition. Since 1867 was 150 years ago, that means a lot of Modern Roses are also antique roses. And since a few breeders continued to dabble with the oldies, we have some Old Garden Roses that are too young to be antiques. So, in my book, 'La France' is an antique rose (i.e. over 100 years old), but also a Modern Rose (i.e. a Hybrid Tea), and not an Old Garden Rose. Meanwhile, 'Rosette Delizy' is old, but not quite yet an antique rose -- give it another five years for that title. Being a Tea, it is still an Old Garden Rose and not a Modern Rose. And, to those of you who are curious to dip your toes into the OGR pool, I'd suggest learning a little about the general habits of each class before falling in love with a picture of a beautiful bloom and buying the plant. For example, if you don't get much Winter chill -- or if Summers come in hot and fast -- Gallicas and Albas will likely be disappointing, but you'd do well with Noisettes and Chinas and Teas. The classes among OGRs are a bit more ancestry-based than are how Modern Rose classes are put together, so that makes it a bit easier to figure out if something would do well in your climate. Oh, and don't be afraid of once-blooming roses -- think of them as azaleas or lilacs, mixing into the garden as "flowering shrubs", and you'll understand how to use them. While their annual flushes may last only a few weeks, they'll produce at least as many blooms in that period as similarly-sized repeat-blooming roses would all season. Also, generally OGRs will perform better as bigger plants than what you may be used to if you've grown mostly Hybrid Teas and Floribundas. They can be trained and pruned, but not generally as harshly as is recommended for "show roses". There are so many beautiful roses out there, it'd be a shame to miss out on so many because you want to grow "only Modern Roses." Or, for that matter, "only OGRs." :-) ~Christopher

UPDATE: STARTING 2025 SPRING…… I’ll post new OGRs to bloom this season……….at end of all my below posts….. BUT FIRST…….. (To see first photos from 2022-2024 of this thread, you now have to click on ”oldest and then newest and then oldest arrows” and many old posts & my ORG garden photos will show on beginning of this thread. it’s a houzz glitch system now. LOL!) SPRING 2024 UPDATE: a few photos from year 2024 OGRs blooms that I have not yet posted…….. The finale of the last 2024 season now below……..All are repeat bloomers except Variegatta di Bologna. Comte de Chambord She turned into a 5 ft bush first season with blooms all over. Variegatt di Bologna Once bloomer 4-6 weeks in June,! Exquisite! She can grow easily 5ft, but I orune her back after her blooms are done. Mme Isaac Pereire Lovely favorite in my garden! Very Strongly Fragrant! She climbs so I moved her to an oblisk for spring 2025, Center of the bed-for a center piece! She is so showy! 7ft. Honorine de Brabant Yolanda de Aragon One of my top favorites! Very large plump cluster repeat bloomer! Very strong delicious fragrance. Barbara Olivia Gloire de Ducher