Hi Greg,

Welcome to suburbia, and I really couldnt agree more. Regardless of the city/town, I believe that you are describing many of our suburbs. Probably the only difference in Rocky is that we have a large number of rented homes with little more than a solitary Mango tree in the backyard and a couple of struggling Golden Canes in front - at least they are consistent :)

Whether a gardener uses Aussie native plants or not, I cant understand why there seems to be so little thought given to the overall design of the garden. In many cases, the existing shrubs and trees could have been combined with a few hardy groundcovers to produce an attractive, waterwise garden, but the owner seems to have 'lost interest' somewhere in the early 90's and left it all to nature. Throw in a few gnomes and status of aboriginal men pointing a spear at some unseen prey - I'm sure we all get the picture.

I dont mandate that people embrace natives as I have done (any more than I ask indigeneous gardeners to embrace some of the exotics I like), but I do ask that they spend some time investigating what 'works' in their neck of the woods. If that means Oleander and Plumbago over LillyPilly and Coast Rosemary, then so be it - live and let live - but why turn our backs on native alternatives to garden 'staples' for hedging, shade and colour ? As one of the contributors to 'A Garden of Our Own' states : can you imagine a gardener in England telling his nurseryman "I want a range of plants, as long as none of them are native to England" ? I have had all the usual excuses thrown at me: 'natives look too straggly', 'they dont live long enough' and, my personal fave, 'it just looks like the bush'. If only our remnant bushland looked like Don Burke's garden (as one example) ....

By unrelated I mean in the ecological sense, i.e. plants form Australia, Asia and Europe mixed together with no sense of ecological harmony.

The only reason the Australian bush looks $hit, at least around the cities and agricultural areas, is that it is full of exotic weeds. Weeds like Philaris and Wild Mustard look absolutely crap and detract hugely from the appearance of the bush. A field of Poa or Themeda, on the other hand, look absolutley fantastic.

And anyway, people don't put roses in their garden, forget about them and expect them to always look at their best. So why do they have that expectation of native plants?

The attitude that native plants will 'grow by themselves' has plagued us for some years - most trace it back to the 1970's, but I suspect that it goes farther than that. Whatever the origins, its refreshing to see that GA and some of the other tv programs are trying to change it.

Whatever the prevailing fashions dictate (natives seem to be 'hot' when the drought is at its worst), we owe it to ourselves to present these fantastic plants in their best light. Whilst i adore 'bush' gardens, I suspect that the best bet for the widespread adoption of natives lies in grouping them with exotics in a naturalistic setting (ie non-formal).

- native palms work so well with exotic cordylines and phildendron, themselves intermingling with Melastoma Affine, native Frangipani and native Alpinia.

- Syzygium species already have a good foothold in many gardens - plant them alongsiide Murrayas, Gardenia, Pittosporum and other shrubs with a similar habit

- folliiage plants are the rage at the moment, and so many of our plants fit into that 'genre'. Gymea lillies cross-planted among Agave and Sanseveria might be a little too 'architectural' for some, but surely the bleeding-edge landscape designers could use natives more often when designiing modern gardens.

All I can suggest in closing is that we 'practice what we preach' - there are some Melaleuca in my front garden that could really use a haircut ......

I agree with both your points of view, and like Artie, have both natives and exotics. It is still very easy to get caught in the trap of growing weeds, though. Here in Toowoomba (the home of the Municipal Camphor Laurel) our council has spent enormous sums on an as yet only partially successful privet eradication programme, but is planting Kolreuterias as street trees. The ease with which they self-seed suggests they will be the privet of the future, invading our local bush with enthusiasm. They are so attractive that, like jacarandas, we might have to make up our minds to accept them as future "natives". (Are dingoes native?)
I believe that the introduced Murrayas are regarded as weeds in some areas, and I have heard some strong criticisms of agaves.
The problem with native gardening as an art form is that we are still in the experimental stage. Many people, including landscape gardeners want a predictable result within a predictable time, and for that they need plants whose qualities are already known. Household native gardens, as you say, are mostly either scruffy ones, or are really "botanic gardens" with a variety of plants being trialled all the time, and overall unity of design being sacrificed in favour of enjoyment of each individual plant. Forums like this one, where we can share knowledge already discovered by amateurs, and move on to the next stage, are invaluable.
Meanwhile, we badly need local botanic gardens all over the place. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to go and look at local plants, expertly grown, in a public garden!
I suspect native plants will never enter the mainstream until they can demonstrate more flexibility for use in different garden styles, as fashions change. Bush gardens like Don Burke's are indeed superb, but it is refreshing to see the range of species now being developed, for example, for clipped hedges.
I suspect that when native plant gardens begin to be taken seriously as fine art, they will contain a backbone of local native species (which we hope will still be compatible with the local landscape by then), and the often spectacular results of horticultural development of plants from all over the country. These are pretty good already, and can only get better with time and support.
I'm looking forward to it!
Cheers, Trish

Trish, would you rate your local council environmental vandals?
Why are they planting exotics, with the potential to be future weed problems as street trees.
Who is advising their relevant department (parks and trees) on this issue?

Roy

Native gardens are 'scruffy' because most people have it ingrained in their minds that that is all they can be. A comment by a visitor to my indigenous display garden at last year's Gardening Australia festival sums it up. "Oh it looks like a cottage garden....I didn't know you could do that with natives."

I have every confidence that I could produce a formal garden, complete with box hedges and lawns, using entirely indigenous plants (and a few other natives perhaps) as they are and without any breeding.

My bushland garden is definitely "scruffy". I am sure you can do it differently, but that is the way I like it. I am not tidy by nature. I have never been a gardener in the past, but now I spend a lot of time simply pulling out thousands of weeds: every exotic weed and those native weeds that I have decided I don't want.

I am modelling the 0.2 hectare garden on the local white box - kurrajong woodland. Of course it is not a natural woodland, it is a garden, and I am the gardener.
It will have a much denser and more varied shrub layer than would occur naturally. I have planted trees and shrubs apparently at random, but of course they are exactly where I decided they should go.

The ground covers vary from place to place, depending on where each species flourishes, as much as on where I planned to have them. They come and go with the seasons and vary from season to season. Some seasons are great for Einadia saltbushes and some not.

Because I am not committed to a very formal plan, I am not too disappointed when some plants go dormant, or even die.

I get great pleasure when something new, such as a patch of chocolate lilies (Dichopogon), just pops up of its own accord.

Greg, I really think you (and others, including myself) may be preaching to the choir on this one - can I suggest that 'Gardening in Oz' may have been a better location for it ? Sure, we may have drawn the ire of those who are so enamoured with their roses, Buxus hedges and bulb planting that they will never be swayed from them, but I suspect that there is a healthy middle ground on this board. The people we need to get the message to probably dont go online terribly often, and are still using the 1986 edition of the Yates Garden Guide.

In terms of 'scruffy' gardens, I dont believe that this is the same thing as an 'informal' garden. For mine, 'scruffy' equates to 'no-maintenance' : we have all seen 'gardens' (!) with a few shrubs gamely battling on despite a distinct lack of care. I recently had to correct a lady here in the office when she came to me wanting to know how to grow natives 'so that I dont have to do anything in the garden' .. I gave her Dick Chadwick's book with the gentle prompting that she read the sections on pruning and watering - hopefully, she realises that 'low-maintenance' and 'no-maintenance' arent the same things.

Ultimately, I'll take any garden where a genuine attempt has been made to plant something in tune with its environment, regardless of the origin of individual plants.

Lets no forget, that local native gardens, bring in the fauna, and provide very important wildlife corridors for all fauna.

Humans are not the only animal that uses the garden.

Having these patches of local native corridors, or gardens, also help our exotic garden, like our vege patch, by providing predators for the numerous insects that eat the veges.

An holistic approach is the way to go.

From someone who propagates and sells local native plants.

"Whilst i adore 'bush' gardens, I suspect that the best bet for the widespread adoption of natives lies in grouping them with exotics in a naturalistic setting (ie non-formal)."

I think artie has brought up an important point. If you can convince people that natives do mix well with exotics in a garden people will use them more, and they do work well in a relaxed cottage style garden.

"Lets no forget, that local native gardens, bring in the fauna, and provide very important wildlife corridors for all fauna."

another good point, and this is my main motivation for growing natives to provide some food and habitat for not only the birds but also things like skinks and lizards. not only are they great to have around the garden but they are also an important part of organic gardening with pest control as popi mentioned.

me, personally, I think it's just as important if you want to attract wildlife to the garden to not only have some suitable plants but also allow a healthy bug population to exist in the garden as well by avoiding chemicals, but some people are still so bug phobic? that they spray or kill anything just because it's there. My garden is a mix of natives and exotics and I still cant believe the diversity of insects I get and every year brings something new e.g. this year I have painted lady butterflies and what I think are native bees or wasps for the first time. To my surprise though the painted ladies have ignored the native strawflowers and gone straight for the globe amaranths

Well, I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone by suggesting that their native gardens were scruffy!
In my experience, a great many native gardens which are tended by native plant lovers are anything but! However, as several of you pointed out, the belief that natives need no maintenance has indeed resulted in some gardens which do an enormous disservice to the popularity of Australian plants.
I am interested that no-one except Greg picked up on the other half of my remark - that few of us have moved in other directions besides the bush garden style, or "botanic gardens". Perhaps "plantsman's gardens" is a better term. It certainly describes my garden, as I always get sucked into planting yet another lovely thing, thereby ruining my resolve to consider Form, Line, Colour and those other components of beautiful gardens. Like you, Popi, we enjoy the wildlife. I can't kill a lovely caterpillar, even if it is eating a lovely plant!
I don't expect to see any invitations to include my patch in any "Open Garden Scheme" coming up any time soon. It's distressingly style-free. But I do wish there were more open-to-the-public native gardens where overall design was more interesting.
My garden also functions, in a rather haphazard way, as a "botanic garden". Like many of us, I am experimenting with plants whose qualities - eventual growth size, fertiliser needs, etc - are not yet known, and I share some of this knowledge with other members of my local SGAP. A lot of the knowledge we all gain in a lifetime is lost, however, which is why we need more top=-quality botanic gardens to make sure that native plant information is gained, retained, and available to others.
I also admit to considerable scruffiness in my garden, as my ambitions always exceed what is possible in a mere seven-day week (and perhaps exceed my ability as well). Like Supeito, I love it regardless, and other native plant enthusiasts seem able to enjoy it too - but I know it won't convert the Yates Garden Guide set.
Toowoomba's annual Carnival of Flowers actually has a Native Gardens category, and when one of those gardens wins the "Grand Championship", we'll know that native plant gardening has come of age at last. Many of the entrants have native gardens which I enjoy, but which lack style because of the tendency to want one of each of all the most beautiful plants, whether they look good in combination or not. I'd love to see more people (who need to be more talented than I am) using what we already know of native plants to create stylish gardens. Our local TAFE has one which I think is of prize-winning quality - small but worth seeing. Gardens like this - and Greg's indigenous display garden - are the things which speak to the wider audience.
And yes, Roy, I do think our councils haven't yet caught up with the groundswell, mostly of younger people, who are more environmentally aware than our city fathers. We have an excellent parks and garden department with a strong...

No problems, Trish - we all acknowledge the lure of getting something new everytime we go to the nursery/markets/friends houses etc.

I believe that there is a fine distinction between being a collector and having a 'one-of-everything' garden, tho - collectors tend to specialise in a particular family. In my case, I find it hard to resist most things from the Myrtaceae family, particularly the Eugenia/Acmena/Syzygium species, but I have disciplined myself to use Syzygium 'Aussie Southern' as the foundation planting for my shrub understorey, interspersed with a variety of other lillipillies. The intent is to have a sea of deep green punctuated by beds containing more colourful tropicals such as Cordylines and Crotons, mass-planted for impact but limited to just two beds. They eye needs a place to relax, and that means green for mine.

One of the really interesting observations I am seeing of late is that gardeners are no longer willing to persevere with 'difficult' plants, preferring to concentrate on growing the species which work well in their environment. I'm not denying that this could still be achieveable with 500 different plants in my garden, and orchid lovers would blanche at my lack of 'dedication', but I'm increasingly inclined to narrow the range of plants which find their way into my patch. One of the joys of opting for a 'tropical' theme is that it encompasses so many species, but adding constraints such as 'predominately native', 'waterwise', 'locally available' and 'sun hardy' soon narrows the field to little more than a thousand :)

Cheers,

Artie

In Rockhampton we have the wonderful Kershaw Gardens which were built over the land fill about 25 to 30 years agon, don't hold me to those years as time flies so fast and the trees have grown so fast there that they look much older than that.
It is all Natives and we must thank our local Garden Guru Tom Wyatt for that, he also planted the central road plantings of Palm trees and various other natives and tropicals and such which turned Rockhamton into a much more pleasant city than it was in the old days.

In my garden the chain saw is coming out to knock down at least 3 Torellians [cadagai] and 2 Iron barks and about 4 callistemons which are riddled with borers and are all causing me much grief with dead and falling branches.
Maybe that is slaughter to some of you but in their places I haven't decided what to plant and will really miss the shade they give but the danger of the darn things far outweighs that,

I am off to have a talk to Tom at the Gardens.
Marion

Hi Marion,

I agree that Kershaw and the Botanic Gardens are the two jewels in Rocky's otherwise lacklustre crown. Too many of our gardeners seem intent on clinging to a vision of Merry Olde England (or Merry Olde Mt Macedon ...), and I just dont believe that is appropriate in a region notorious for heat,humidity and the drought/flood contradiction which plagues so much of the arable land in Oz.

Far better to let nature tell us what works here, then make the most of the pluses of living on the tropical-subtropical dividing line.

Cheers,

Artie

Ashmeri raises the point that trees must be cut down eventually.
With eucalypts and acacias growing rather fast, this may a more frequent dilemma in a native garden. Again, the less formal the garden, the less of a hole a culled tree leaves.

Whilst I agree with some posters re the undesirability of many exotics, we really need to remember that a 'transplanted' native can often be just as detrimental to the local ecology. I had a couple of Eucalyptus Torreliana removed when I bought my house, as I didnt want the death of native bees on my conscience.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cadagi kills native bees

Sorry guys, the radical in me has surfaced.
The 'Pommie' gardens achieve nothing.
Bring on the republic AND the native-only garden.
I won't be persuaded.

Cheers
Roy

The death of the Native Bees is another reason that I think Torrelianas should be on the banned list.

They are also very prolific, in every pot plant I have round about there are little Torrelianas popping up, I am forever pulling them out.

As soon as they flower the Flying Foxes land and smell the place out and keep us awake at night.

The really sad thing is that they are still being sold in nurseries as a lovely and quick growing native tree.
Some folk about a mile away from us on small acreage have planted them all round the fence line, watch out kids when you are playing under them, as they drop branches with no warning.

Marion, who has just enjoyed adding to the reasons why the chain saws are looming.

Wow - I feel like I have stumbled into an evangelical church.

I grow a couple of natives in my [largely exotic] garden. The native pelargoniums look nice underneath my camellia, and the trachymene anisocarpais is a nice contrast to my roses - but natives are an adjunct used as underplanting if I find something nice.

Natives just don't do terribly much for me. Even well planned gardens, like Herring Island, don't excite me terribly much. I am sure that some people find it very beautiful and that there is a lot of skill and hardwork that goes into it, but that is much the same as my opinion of heavy metal music - it isn't my cup of tea.

just an opinion from the other side of the fence

cheers

Kate

Roy said:

Bring on the republic AND the native-only garden.
I won't be persuaded.
-----------------------------------------------
LOL ! Roy, whilst I admire your conviction, you must realise that taking the hard line only makes the 'exotics-only' gardeners dig their heels in further !

Even native lovers like myself are confronted when they encounter the 'local provenance or no provenance' extreme, even if we can intellectually agree with the principle behind it. I'd hate to have the garden nazis trampling through my Grevillea bed mumbling "Venusta ? Must be at least 70KM from Byfield - we'd better rip these out !". Just wait till they find the foxtails ...

Roy, I appreciate that you have created a native-only garden, and I salute you for your dedication, but I still believe that the future of native plants in home gardens lies with those who are willing to embrace plants that work, regardless of origin. (Usual disclaimer re weeds etc goes here).

Native versus exotic is a perennial arguement that seems to go on and on and yet gets nowhere. It always seems to crop up when we have run out of more important things to discuss.

For goodness sake; some like rock and roll, some like folk and some like classical. We all have our own aesthetic preferences and just like music etc. that is what makes gardening so interesting and diverse.

Visit the open gardens and you will find brilliant examples of native, exotic or hybrid gardens that have their own validity. I love natives and prefer them but I also enjoy exotics.

As long as environmental considerations are taken into account diversity is healthy.

My republic line was meant to be VERY tongue in cheek.
There isn't any humour in here is there?
Perhaps gardening is a "serious" business afterall?

I'm with roysta
bring on the native only garden as many us already have,
I have interpertation of a heathland in my front yard and a formal garden in my courtyard all with natives
Although they arent all indige to my area so what!
I which i lived in w. australia for there banksias but i couldnt leave sydney for the telopea s.
I adore all things proteaceae with a few exceptions
in the front i have callistemons trimed to a rough hedge,
8 X. johnsonii (grass trees)some austromyrtus(rare and endangered in the wild, and the rest is grevillea.
I the back lepto.morrisonii as a hedge,waratah,b.serrata,b.ericofolia,b.prirotes,gymea lilys,flannel flowers ,and in the shade dicksonias with more to come
and it all works formally in the back.
so dig out the rose plant the aussie rose and reward yourselves with the most glorious blooms you can
AUSSIE BLOOMS!!!!
go australia

Jesus, warcrazy, why dont you just end all your posts with 'oi, oi, oi !' ...

I am equally proud of the natives in my own garden, but I dont limit myself to plants with a Kangaroo on the label. You might like to consider how well many of the plants you have listed actually mesh with one another and the gardens on either side of yours : a garden should be more than the sum of its parts.

What's an "Aussie Rose", wazcrazy?
Trish

Artie
Why the heck should you base your garden (or what's in it) on what's next door.
My garden is so hugely different to any other in the suburb, but hey, I reckon it looks bonzer mate!!
Note I stopped short of oi oi oi, I never did like that feral chant from the Sydney Olympics.
But, if Waz is crazy, there are two of us to put in with the native potting mix.

Cheers
Roy

Hi Roy (and Waz),

I am not attacking your right to be different, but asking that you consider the imapct that your gardens have on the mindset of those around you. Imagine you live in a nicely restored Queenslander on about 800 sq m in SE Qld, complete with a professionally landscaped subtropical garden (palms, ixora, cordyline etc). Its all very tasteful, in line with the house itself, and similar to many of the gardens in your area.

I then move in next door and proceed to erect a pink 'Tuscan' monstrosity, put in a cactus garden at the front and my interpretation of 'Mediterranean' at the back - exotics which couldnt be further apart from your plantings. When I compliment you on your garden, I am surprised to find that you seem less than impressed with my efforts. Clearly, you have no respect for my right to be an *individual*, and to express myself as I see fit ...

OK, this scenario is a tad overdone, but I suspect that an all-native dry woodland garden, as beautiful and waterwise as it may be, would evoke many of the same reactions from the predominately conservative majority out there. In my own case, I had visions of creating just such a garden, but I realised that it would mean removing almost everything on the block, including a huge Poinciana, and having a garden which presented a complete clash with those of my neighbours on either side. If I was on acreage, it wouldnt be an issue, but those of us on suburban blocks (in Rocky, thats 500-900 sq m) need to be able to 'borrow' our neighbours gardens, and that meant palms and large-leafed greenery in my case. I dont want any of their individual choices in my garden (Duranta - what the hell are these people thinking ??), but I can see the value in framing views of the next door neighbours Royal Cuban palm, and in low Melaleuca and lillypilly hedges which blur the fenceline between our gardens.

I do have one advantage over those in bigger towns - the majority of Rocky gardeners have very informal gardens, regardless of plant choice. I dont think I could create a garden which effectively meshed with clipped buxus and elaborate topiaries, but its not hard when the majority have neither the patience nor the energy for such things :)

I wish you both every success with your gardens.

Cheers,

Artie

"but I realised that it would mean removing almost everything on the block"

I have to agree with artie on this, many people inherit gardens when they buy a house and it's just not practical to start pulling out established trees and large shrubs which are working just because theyre not native, and then again native only gardens arent for everyone so a good compromise can be a mix of natives and exotics in that case.

I have to admit when I see brand new gardens in my area with 100% exotics I now start to think, wouldnt it be nice if theyd popped a few natives in there for the birds but I think there is still this attitude for a lot of people that natives just dont mix with exotics so they dont plant any natives. me, personally I think we need to get rid of this attitude that it's all or nothing with natives and then more people will use them in their gardens. just my thoughts.

of course, there's nothing wrong with native only gardens, but like I said, theyre not always possible or suit everyones taste, but even a few natives in a mixed garden is better than none at all.

TG

Hi all

This is an interesting post, and a subject I have thought about for a while now.

Is there a place for exotics? Why not? Of course the obvious issues such as exotic weeds are complex, where do you stop? As we know there are native weeds, and if we stick to only Australian natives in our gardens, should we only plant those indigenous to our local area?

We just probably don't know enough about our Native plants, to appreciate and use them in our suburban gardens.

I have a lovely garden of natives. As I live very close to native bushland, my block (and many neighbours) still have much native vegetation, it has seemed natural for me to plant natives. These are still suburban blocks, but pretty rugged natural landscapes full of gums and grass trees. The thought of planting up rows of camelias for example, just doesn't seem to naturally come into the equation. So I suppose, being closer to the environment, you can see the beauty, the wild life and the sense of trying to maintain it. You also see first hand as a layperson, the destruction of exotics such as privet, morning glory and agapanthas are having on the surrounding bushland.

Of course the obvious issues such as exotic weeds are complex, where do you stop? As we know there are native weeds, and if we stick to only Australian natives in our gardens, should we only plant those indigenous to our local area?

Also I think there is a misconception that all Aussie natives are drought tolerant etc. We have beautiful rainforests and wetlands which as far as I know were vegetated by plants native to Australia...

cheers

A

Hi A,

I believe that there is a distinction between a 'waterwise' plant and a 'drought-tolerant' plant, albeit a fine one. Many exotics, particularly from arid zones, are extremely drought-tolerant, but they may not survive the seasonal downpours we experience in Oz, particularly in the tropical north. By contrast, even our wet rainforests have plants which will hang on for months provided they receive their monsoonal rains each year.

When I plant something in Rocky, I need to know that it can take our extremes given some supplementary watering for the first year or so. I do have tropical plants which need more than the remainder of my garden, but grouping them together ensures that I can remain 'waterwise' compared to my neighbours with their acres of lawn. We dont have water restrictions in Rocky, but I'm confident that I could keep my plants happy with the level 3 restrictions currently looming over SE Qld (buckets and watering cans only).

If you ever drive past my house and see someone setting up a sprinkler, call the Police. Tell them that I'm being held prisoner and tortured by people who dont really care where the water ends up :)

Cheers,

Artie

If I had a big enough block I'd have a house garden and a native garden beyond it but on this block I need privacy hedging and after starting out with a variety of things we had to admit that photinias and pittosporums are hard to beat. The government nursery that propagates plants for streets and parks also sells to the public and used to give an allocation of free plants to each newly-built house. I don't know if they still do. It's like a normal nursery now but when we built they had inadequate labelling and an emphasis on native plants. We ended up with some really unsuitable plants and pulled many out. I know other people have too. More advice and less free plants would have been a better way to go. We do have some very nice bottlebrushes which attract honeyeaters and white-eyes. Many of those were bought elsewhere later. I wouldn't have minded planting more but when you have gaps in your informal hedge and you don't want to be pulling something out again in another few years when it becomes apparent that it's too scruffy and not doing the job it was planted for, you just don't risk it.

Around Toowoomba, the exotic Abelia is a common hedge plant and quite tolerant to dry conditions. We had a hedge of it along the boundary at the front yard when we bought the place, but I got sick of having to trim it all the time, plus I am a native plant fanatic anyway.

So I pruned back the side nearest the fence and planted a row of Acmena smithii "Hot Flush" in between the Abelia. I let them grew tall and lanky and then cut out the Abelia and top pruned the Acmena until they bushed out into a full screen. That has happened to a great extent but it's still relatively early days. They have not had any watering now for months in our drought. There have been the odd small showers of rain but I would classify them as quite tolerant to dry conditions - they have never wilted and have kept growing. (My Lemon-scented Myrtle, Backhousia citriodora wilts after extended dry periods although it still manages to hold on to life.)

I suppose my point is that outwardly, there is not a lot of difference in appearance between the Abelia hedge and the Acmena "hedge" (I haven't pruned the sides at all). Fitting in with the neighbours therefore is not an issue. I'm sure that like Artie with his neighbours, we will always be able to find an equivalent native plant that would fit into the ambience of the neighbourhood, if we were particularly concerned about that issue.

Cheers,
Frank

artiew,
I would glady look over my fence if my neighbour wasn't such a old english boring cottage garden or if i look down the street and see all those horrid patches of lawn flanked with some dead (or dying) roses or some inapproriate planted liqiud ambers (why i oughta!!!)fact of the matter is sydney people are so wrapped up in themselves and there possesions that the garden is just like them dull,boring,lifeless.
Im not totally native nazi I have planted some bulbs for my new wife in some planters but my garden is all native
and will stay that way.
I do love all plants and believe that any gardening is a wonderful pursuit for all but this is australia not dear old europe,south or north america.
As gardeners we need to look at the enviroment around us and work with it using indige plants and creating havens for wildlife. Every native plant and animal has survived the harshest enviroments ever evolving to what they are now and white settlers tried to turn it into merry old england.in 200 odd years of white settlement we have managed to destroy whole ecosystems. my garden is my way of trying to undo some of the damage that my neighbours poor choices.I am doing this 1 garden at a time as my neighbours ask how come i got plants flowering 24/7 365 days a year.I dont want to blow smoke up my own butt but i have helped 2 friends design a native garden and cant be happier with strong growth and flowers who wouldnt
now if you dont already know i hate roses my idea of a rose is plant that is dead for most of the year gives you a bit of a flower then dies off again.
my alternative is native is just as big a pain in the butt and i call it the aussie rose and it is

a waratah Telopea spec.
so i leave cause my flanne flowers need a feed hope i dint tick to many peeps off
aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi(man that is so bogun)
c ya
wazcrazy

artiew
u are so lucky where you live to have space like that 900sq m(i have 300)mostly house and no water restrictions
exotics have there place i totally agree with everyone here i have seen some beautiful hybird gardens,but the big fad at the moment is total manure!!!!(my msg wont go through with the aussie word for manure)
mass plantings of bromeliads,succulents,and flax is this just a sydney thing or is it happening everywhere
where is the diveristy there?
my direct neighbour has 2 v old g.(robyn gordons) i have perfect fit with her but in sydney if a border is breached by a stray branch well u get sued (it aint no joke) it is about the urban enviroment as much as the natural one

at the end of the day i make my difference one clod of dirt at a time and one award at a time
so im out
love youse all

from the Generation Y gardener
wazcrazy 8^D

Waz
I wasn't aware of a problem if you cut off branches at your boundary fence, sounds a bit tough.
When my neighbour's pumpkin and passionfruit vines start tangling themselves around my bangalows guess what?
The vines get snipped at the border.

Cheers
Roy

Why take the risk? Macbirch, I understand exactly what you're saying. Planting natives does sometimes/often seem like a risk because we just don't have the collective knowledge about natives as we do exotics.
About 2 years ago, I wanted to plant a hedge along the boundary between my native garden and my neighbour's property. I really liked the idea of using waratahs, but at that stage I'd never tried to grow one, and, since you don't see them around that much, thought they must be difficult. I decided not to take the risk and planted callistemons instead, at least they where natives. Anyway, I've since had great success growing 2 waratahs (even moved one), so I've decided to take out the callistemons, which aren't getting enough sun anyway, and replace them with waratahs.
My point is that if I'd had the confidence in the first place, and got some decent advice from my local nursery, I wouldn't be now, 2 years down the track, going to all the work and expense of replacing the callistemons with what is afterall, a plant indigenous to the Blue Mountains! You'd think there'd be a waratah nursery here wouldn't you? No, I have to drive 40 minutes just to get to a native nusery, and that looks like it could close down any time soon.
Waz, young people like you are the key. I hope you never grow exotics, never learn about them or decide you like them. Oh, and I hope you and Artie continue to be outspoken about people like me who grow roses. If I build another house and start a garden from scratch, things will be different.

Decent advice and more helpful labels would be so welcome. DH spent an afternoon recently digging out a conifer that was supposed to be a thin dense screen but was turning out to be very tall and open, despite pruning. I think I knew it wasn't working out a couple of years ago but we'd waited so long for it to reach a reasonable size already so we kept hoping we wouldn't have to start again. So you can go wrong with any plant, but natives seem to be the worst. I feel for you Wattleblossom. How many callistemons do you have to take out?

While watering the other day I decided to count my natives and I was surprised to find I have at least twenty in the front garden, where we felt more able to experiment. Also birches, pittosporums, viburnums and diosma.

There is no reason why a 100% native garden cannot fit in with surrounding exotic gardens. Its all about which species you use, how you use them and how you maintain them.

Among the problems are that:
1) Even native enthusiests tend to have the mind set that a native garden has to be a bush garden.
2) Native plants available at your average retail nursery are very limited and tend to sterotypical.

I am supremely confident that I could produce a European garden, complete with hedges and borders and beautiful foliage, using only local native plants. And the average gardener would not even be aware of the fact that it is 100% native.

Look at plants like Myoporum viscosum, Pomaderris aspera, Correa glabra, Dodonaea viscosa and even Acacia accinacea. If properly maintained by pruning these plants look little different to the exotic plants in the average garden. And they are 100% environmentally safe in the Melbourne region.

Acacia accinacea and Myoporum viscosum could easily be maintained as a box hedge with relatively little effort. Dodonaea viscosa is an ideal alternative to those weedy Pittosporums. Pomaderris aspera looks nothing remotely like the average course leaf native plant.

However you will not find these in the retail nurseries. You only get the same old overdone plants like Callistemons and Gum Trees that often do not blend in as well with exotic plants. No wonder the public is generally against native plants.

Greg
I think it's a bit of a generalisation saying many of the lesser known natives are not available at retail nurseries.
Sometimes it's surprising what you'll find at some 'native' nurseries, it's just a case of investigating a few.
I know of a couple of nurseries that come up with some unusual ones, okay, one is 10kms from my home and the other is 60kms away. But, if you really want things then you'll go to them, right?
Roy

Macbirch, thank you for your kind thoughts. I only have to remove 7 callistemons, so I suppose it could be worse. But as I said, they're not really getting enough sun and, I don't think they'll ever be quite the "curtain of red bottlebrushes" I'd imagined. The area receives full sun in winter but only filtered in summer, so I hope waratahs will be happier.

Greg, I would add to your list of problems, that the moment you mention native garden to many nursery staff, they automatically assume you are a lazy gardener, couldn't care about the way things look, don't ever intend watering and, that you have a "bush garden" just like everyone else. I can understand some people are lacking in imagination, but I wish they'd stick to selling socks!

Since when have major nurseries ever had good staff with the knowledge on native flora
I am v.blessed to have quite a few different nurseries around but the best advice i have recieved was from a v.small nursery called altra here at peakhurst much better than syd. wildflower nursery(nth or south)but these days we have so much info that specialist nurseries are more commercial anyway to compete.all u have to do is google and well u end up here with the rest of us and learn so much v.quickly and then off you go to the nursery
I sometimes find my self walking around a large nursery looking for a large feature plant like grass tree or tree ferns or a hotch potch of things my wife likes (usually grevilleas)and people coming to me for advice because of the same reason wattleblossum had said.
I believe that for every exotic plant planted in a garden you can find a native that will evoke the same reaction its just a matter of looking. because really people are like sheep and will always follow the leader so the range of exotics in gardens isnt has high as it could bewhen my waratah flowered (late mind you)everyone was oh my god how beautiful is that its like a rose only better(case in point)

anywho of my high horse

roysta where do you go to buy plants at????
signing out
wazcrazy

Hi Greg,

I absolutely agree that many of our natives, esp the smaller lillipillies and austromyrtus, are far more attractive choices than Buxus for hedging. I guess the difficulty in creating a formal European setting, for mine, is that our Flora offers so much more than the limited palette that many formal gardens are drawn from.

Cottage gardens are similarly easy for the native plantsman, IMO, but I suspect that all-native shrub borders would stand out alongside beds of exotic annuals, bulbs and perennials. I've never been a fan of the amount of work that has to go into such a garden, so its never been an issue. If I do gravitate toward exotics its the larger shrubs with longterm beauty - Vireyas, Camellias, Gardenias, Ixora and the like. So much easier to blend these into a native woodland, and considerably less work than the whole 'flash of Spring colour' in an ephemeral garden.

Just my two-cents worth :)

Cheers,

Artie

Waz
I live at Gosford and have done a fair bit of looking around for decent nurseries.
There's one up here on the coast, at Erina, called The Wildflower Place (4365 5510)while I've also found Palmland on Mona Vale Road at Terrey Hills (9450 1555) to be alright.
My garden's pretty well full these days but I try to find some excuse to get my head inside one of these nurseries and salivate at what might be.

Roy

Roysta being to palmland found it great but just a little on the expensive side
thanks for the erina nursery might try to make a excuse to visit family in kincumber while im there

wazcrazy