In a former life, I used to work with inbred mice. The minimum number of generations of brother X sister mating was 20 consecutive generations before an "inbred strain" was considered established. In many cases, the number far exceeded F20. The advantage in that situation was that after 20 generations, the resulting population was considered to be genetically identical (or close to it). This has terrific potential in medical research. Theoretically, genetics is no longer a variable. A particular trait can be "highlighted" with inbreds. A rare mutant trait may become normal in all individuals. As bambi pointed out, fatal traits are often highlighted by chance instead of "desirable" traits. It is rare to get inbreds to F20 because they simply die out! In plants, this may or may not be desirable. Each individual will eventually appear identical. Nurseries would go broke--no variety! --Stitz--

So I've finished my comparison between the following "sweet" cherries: 1. Sunsugar (hybrid; SS) 2. Sungold (hybrid; SG) 3. Ambrosia Gold (OP; AG) 4. Big SunGold Select (OP; BSS) All were grown from seed and then transplanted in ground with similar soil conditions, sun/shade, watering. Ranking data is below with the best listed first. A. Germination success: SS, SG, BSS, AG B. Productivity: SS, AG, BSS, SG C. Growth: BSS, SS, AG, SG D. Flavor: AG, SS, SG, BSS E. Brix: SS, SG, AG, BSS General observations: GERMINATION: As expected, hybrid varieties tended to show a lot higher germination rate than the OP varieties. That being said, germination is also a factor of seed harvesting techniques, storage and age. I don't have any information on these characteristics, but it would be interesting to note if my germination for the OPs goes up for seeds that I saved and grew out next year (I'm betting it would be a lot better). Take home message, when growing the OPs from seed, make sure that you plant more than you need due to germination success. GROWTH: All varieties grew at a similar pace indoors as seedlings all showing good strong seedling health. As I recall, none stood out as particularly better or worse than others during the seedling stage. Once transplanted BSS definitely observed the tallest plant with thick strong limbs. There was not that much difference between SS and AG. For some reason I always see SG as being more wisphy and frail and this occurred again this year. PRODUCTIVITY: SS was the best with productivity generally showing good strong trusses and generally observing good success from flower to fruit. AG was a very close second. BBS came third and SS was a distant fourth. As noted in the pics below, BBS is indeed a large cherry (1-2oz) and is easily double the size of the hybrid varieties. AG came in second. SS tended to be a bit larger than SG, but they were relatively close in size. As noted by others, SG tends to having more cracking/splitting issues vs SS. AG and SS tended to hang on the vine the longest. BSS showed some cracking, but not as much as SS. In terms of coloring when ripe, SS tended to have the strong golden orange color. SS was more yellowish orange while both AG and BSS were a deeper red when ripe. FLAVOR: Flavor is of course very subjective. My personal favorite was AG, not b/c it was the sweetest, but b/c it has a noteworthy complex flavor. It definitely has sweetness to it, but it mixed it with a tang/acidity which I quite liked. SS was also very good, but it had more of a linear sweet taste which I like (as well as my kids) but it didn't have the complexity of AG. SG came in third. SG tends to be a little more variant in it's taste. Sometimes sweet, sometimes slightly sweet like it was not completely ripe even though it appeared to be the case. BSS was by far the least flavorful. BSS had a somewhat bland tomato taste, which was not awful, but was definitely not sweet. BSS would be fine in a garden salad and is obviously the largest of all cherry tomatoes evaluated, but if you want to get a nice large cherry with good taste there are others that are better (like Gardeners Delight which I also grew). BRIX/SWEETNESS: I thought I should mention this since after all these varieties are supposed to be "sweet" cherries. SS was by far the sweetest. Although I didn't actually do a brix test, I'm certain the sugar content would be the highest. Next up was SG, but as I mentioned above, it's sweetness tended to be hit or miss. AG came in third with a pleasant sweetness but not overly sweet. BSS was not sweet at all. CONCLUSION: I have grown SG for many years and for many years it has always done well. SG always germinates well and is a solid producer as cherries go in my garden. That being said, SS was hands down a better hybrid. It produced more and the flavor was more consistent. It was definitely the sweetest of all cherries that I grew and stayed longer on the vine and split less. As mentioned above, I also really liked AG and was pleasantly surprised by its flavor and productivity. It was my personal favorite of all four. It observed many of the same characteristic as SS, but was larger and had a more complex flavor. I was very happy to note these attributes especially since AG is an OP and the seed can be saved and regrown year after year. BSS was a dud. But only b/c of its flavor. I suppose if BSS were marketed as a large cherry with traditional tomato taste, I would grade it much higher, but as a "sweet" OP that was supposed to compete with SG/SS, it wasn't even in the same ballpark. That being said, you definitely get your biggest bang for the buck due to its size and growth. .

Hey Brian6464, thanks for the reply. I have germination domes that do build up extra warmth under the lights and with the mat however due to mold concerns I don't leave them on most of the time. I've also got two clamp/spot lights with hot lights in them pointed in the corner they're in--ideally to keep the area a little warmer but to be honest, I don't know the temperature. I noticed the wilting was really bad a week or two ago when it got really cold/we had two back to back ice storms outside and I had my lights on a timer so they went off between 11pm and 4am--so no heat generation. I switched it around so they were off during the middle of the day instead. I use to have a plastic sheet over the racks but again I'm worried about mold, been picking out anything that looks moldy and trying not to let it be overly damp. I have a small clamp fan I bought specifically for air circulation I haven't' actually set up yet. I'm getting more concerned about the temperature and as you said, how they'll hardly grow if it's that low. This image is a little out of date, but that's my general set up haha.

Daylilybedmaker did you by any chance buy any species daylilies when you started ....it looks to be very close to a species bloom . I know the color is off on this image but shape is right ......http://www.hemerocallis-species.com/HS/Species/fu_Cy_e.htm or http://www.hemerocallis-species.com/HS/Species/fu_rR_e.htm or http://www.hemerocallis-species.com/HS/Species/fu_rP_e.htm or http://www.hemerocallis-species.com/HS/Species/fu_rJ_e.htm perhaps it was a tag along that the seller didnt not realize was in the clump of daylily they sold or shipped to you .