PM & JAG, we are perhaps not as far apart as you seem to think... maybe you should re-read my post? If you get beyond the "leggy" part, you will find that I was referring to the effect of _temperature_ in combination with long days... and yes, with fluorescent lighting, which is widely used (including by me). It is the only feasible means by which I can light enough shelf space to start 400-500 seedlings. Granted, "floros" are not ideal... but not everyone can afford high-intensity lighting. At the scale on which I garden, it's cost-prohibitive. We are also in agreement that long light periods can - and should - be used for starting plants later than the recommended dates, because of the increased growth rate. I did say (if you re-read) that increased growth was a problem "...Unless you plan for this...". For those reading this who are accustomed to starting their plants on a particular date, they need to know that with long light periods, those dates might require some adjustment... or they could end up with plants larger than they planned for. I say this from experience, having made that mistake when I was still a newbe to seed starting. If your plants are too large for the lights & it's still too early to transplant, that could be a problem. Forewarned is forearmed. The recommendations I gave for cooler temps & air movement will contribute to stockier growth, and are accepted greenhouse practice. Perhaps for purposes of this discussion, the questions should be: - the definition of "ample light" - the optimal size for transplants

They were started in direct sunlight through a south facing window, "Direct sunlight" and sunlight "through a window" are not the same thing. The window eliminates and/or reduces much of the spectrum and the intensity. Direct sunlight means just that - direct - as in outdoors in the sun rather than shade. These plants would require at least a week of very gradual outside exposure to survive and even that NOT in direct sun and most definitely out of the wind. I read on line that stroking plants a few time, a couple times a day helps them feel a need to grow thicker. Lightly brushing the tops - maybe. But that isn't the same things as She also roughly pulled them apart severing some of the tops clean off of the plants acting like it was nothing, said they would grow back! Those that have had the growing tip severed won't grow back. Established plants that have their growing tips broken off will develop new side shoots just below the break. Young seedlings won't. So these seedlings have been heavily stressed - tomato lovers would say abused.;) So I'd suggest planning on buying your early tomato plants this year and then doing some additional research into to how to grow them from seed for some of your later plants. The Growing Tomatoes forum has a great "How to Grow from Seed" FAQ and so does the Growing from Seed forum. Dave

Ladylotus, you got me really interested in that manure part in the potting medium! Do you use horse or cow manure? When you say aged, how old should it be? Pardon the details, but here where I live it's easy to find horse droppings on walking trails, they are several days old and a bit dried in the sun - this would be probably too fresh, wouldn't it? If I collect these, how do I go about "aging" them? I have been using a bit drier horse apples to fertilize my Cattleyas (orchids) by just adding - sprinkling - dried manure on top of the pine bark, it later gets washed deeper into the substrate. My orchids seemed to be very happy with this "treat". I read about a guy who has been growing Cymbidiums - orchids again - in pure aged horse manure and has been getting outstanding results. Never thought, though, it could benefit Adeniums, as they are presumably desert plants? How do you feed Adeniums with it? Lena

well, Sorry Karma, I disagree. 2 inch pots that don't get enough water in one soaking each day are ready to be transplanted, especially when they are crowding each other out, in there 4 packs. Just a common sense approach. When transplanting, I soak the plant, THEN repot it in well moistened soil, and dont water again until the roots inhabit the new soil, and it has dried. It has worked extremely well for me, for over 25 years... I don't see that Brugs, which have vigorous root systems, are so different a plant, that they need to be treated differently. Each to his own. We will see.......