Next to my desk is a 16 sqfoot, 2.5 ft high 3 floor "bunny palace" (homemade, I think we spent maybe $45 for supplies, and i'll happily send pics if anyone wants the directions). Inside Mocha & Latte are fed the veggie scraps (carrot, cuke peels, old pes vines & tendrils, left over apple wedgies the kids don't eat, in other words things ppl compost any way), they are fed a basic bunny pellet, I grow them organic grasses for spare "roughage" and they are happy, plump (but not obese) pets. in return they use a litterbow with feline pine or newspaper litter, which then in buried into the garden to feed the plants. When we 1st moved here the soil was a adobe brick, now it drains some, has worms and grows wonderful veggies. Since we hand raised the bunnies, they are truely pets, allowing much petting/handling from the children (part of thier home is an open 6x6 platform, that they can crawl up onto and stick thier heads up to be petted). I think chicken poo is too "hot", but bunny poo is ready to go at once (disclaimer, he poo doesn't stink, the ammonia pee soaked litter does, bury a few inches deep, or dump into compost).

I'm sorry about your Otto. I loved your tales of his exploits...reminded me of one of the episodes of All Creatures Great and Small with the cat who showed up at any and all functions where people gathered - a true social butterfly who just wouldn't stay at home. In our rural area, the biggest danger to cats are the coyotes. After losing 4 cats in a row, my late DH went out and adopted an entire litter - 4 female kittens. His theory was we might end up with one or two lasting a while. Well, here I am 14 years later with all 4, and a bunch of more scaredy cats you'd never find. They're terrified of everything and always have been. My 5th cat is a free spirit much like your Otto. I adopted him from a co-worker who told tales of this cat sleeping out on the warm pavement of the road despite cars driving over the top of him (tires straddling him, luckily!) We thought a quieter setting might help him survive and so it has - he's just turned 9. He is aggravating as all get out sometimes, but his antics are never boring. I guess what I'm saying is give me the Bon Vivant any day over one afraid of its own shadow. Otto used up all his lives in a fast and furious fashion, but he sounded like he surely had a passion for life. I know how you must miss him. I second the suggestion of telling "the kiddies" to get out and get their own patch of earth to design and plant. I don't believe gardening by committee can be successful; I'd have no trouble telling them where to get off, LOL. I hope the new garden turns out to be something you love.

Hats off to Robert Cheetham (and edzard by extension) for those notes; madde me wish I'd gone but now I know why... This question is the one that stuck out at me... "Questions: My name is Junji Shimada and I maintain the Nitobe Garden. I trained and studied in Japan, but we have limited resources and we cannot follow this tradition. So I have become a Pacific NW gardener and have no choice but to break the traditional rules and construct new pruning styles that are faster and works with our conditions. I think that this type of approach may be necessary when considering maintenance and authenticity." The traditions are not questioned as right or wrong (as has happened TOO many times here), but as unapplicable! This is the question we should have been asking all along; can we fit this garden style into our lives? I have struggled to maintain some semblance of order and maintenance in my J-garden, often not happy with the condition (spring in the nursery industry leaves little time for anything other than sleeping, eating, and working. Gardening is an afterthought). So the two days that Val used to take to pinch all the shoots of of his maple (a traditional approach) is not available to me; how do I procede? Am I forced out of maples by my lack of time? Out of J-gardening? It seems that much of the symposium was given to the same questions we ponder here; it makes me feel in good company (not that I was complaining about current company :p ) Scott

Hello from Melbourne, FL. This is my first post, about what size gravel to use in a Japanese Garden. I'm also in the process of about starting one in the front entrace courtyard. This is what I found some years ago: The following is from the Brooklyn Botanic Garden Record, Plants & Garden 1961-62 (new series vol. 17 no. 4) The "Sand Gardens" Of Japan ...there are centuries-old "abstract" gardens in Japan in which sand or gravel are used more frequently, because it can be raked in meaningful patterens. In constructing the replica of the Ryoanji Temple Stone Garden at Brooklyn Botanic Garden, the gravel problem required a satisfactory solution. Washed gravel cannot satisfactorry be raked into surface patterens. Crushed gravel of uniformly-sized particles can be raked into patterens, but if it it is to hold the pattern and at the same time present a satisfactory appearance (texture, light and shadow, etc.), it is necessary to combine two or three sizes of gravel particles. After several experiments, it was found that poultry grit from the North Carolina Granite Corporation, Mt Airy, NC came closet to giving the effect obtained by the Japanese in their Ryoanji Garden in Kyoto. Of the many size combinations we tested, one of the best proved to be: 2 parts "Grower" size 1 part "Turkey" size 1 part "Turkey Finisher" The different sizes were thoroughly mixed, applied evenly over a flat surface, and raked into a the "wavelet" pattern. The mixture can be recommended both for texture and holding quality. The wavelet pattern holds its form for several weeks, depending on the weather. While mixtures with a higher percentage of small grit held the pattern very satisfactory, they were chaclky in appearance and did not resemble the orginal Ryoanji mix. --- Landon H. Winchester, (Assistant Horticulturist, Brooklyn Botanic Garden). I added the following: http://www.ncgranite.com/gritmailer.pdf grower: 3/32 - 3/16 inch (2.3813 - 4.7625 mm) turkey: 5/16 - 7/16 inch (7.9375 - 11.1125 mm) turkey finisher: 7/16 - 5/8 inch (11.1125 - 15-8725 mm) Here is a link that might be useful: Gran-i-grit broucher