Hi Jampolk, I do agree with you about squashing them, why dont you try looking
for the tiny eggs every day and squash them it is a lot easier if you have the time.

Have a look at the link below there is a recipe made from Molasses and another from Vinegar
that could help its a fair way down the page. Hope it helps....MM

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Gardening

Here's Ray's answer to a very similiar question a while back, he's not around at the moment to answer himself

"You could try Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) which is a bacterium that infects the grubs stomach and they die a nasty death. I think it's available as a spray but your local nursery will know.
I avoid all sprays by planting things all mixed up together - a rocket plant here and there among all the other things in the garden. I have herbs, veggies and flowers all jumbled up together. I don't know whether this method is effective or whether I've just had dumb luck on my side but it's worked for me for some years now.
I get the grubs of course but never many and I just pick them off. Anything that looks diseased or weak gets ripped out immediately."

I think if you've got that many then a dose of BT would probably be a good idea. Once you've got the problem under control you can go back to picking them off, another suggestion here in the past was to make big "butterflies" out of ice cream containers & put them on sticks in the garden.
BTW I get the fat green catterpillers from the Cabbage White butterfly & can pick those off, but one year I had smaller green stripey caterpillers in huge numbers & they caused terrible damage. I would definitely use BT if they came back!
Sarah

I'd use Pyrethrum. :)

Do something before they take over. I grew a lovely patch of broccoli one year and loveingly picked all the big heads and took them inside to blanch and freeze. They were infested with grubs large and small and useless :-(
Mantis

I think I'll pull out the one big broccoli as it is just sooo infected. I keep ripping of whjole leaves as they are completely covered in caterpillers.
And then try the cut outs with the seedlings I have just planted out.
Thanks for all the advice
janeP

Hi Guys
Pyrethrum is one point (in 100 points), better than DDT, and BT is 10 points better than Pyrethrum (in my opinion) but remember that when using BT you are setting yourself up to mutate the little beggars children, so that they then pass on an immunity down the genetic line (although latest science would support that this trend is naturally reversed, to some extent, a few (is it million) generations down the line
My recommendation to Jane, is to gather some sufficient quantity of woodash and sieve it as fine as possible and then dust the plants with this ...make sure rain is not imminent ...this will have two effects...one is it will deter the little (or big) blighters and secondly ,it will have the effect of improving your soil condions once it is washed into the soil
Brassicas growing in rich organic soil like a little alkaline matter on which to feast...making them stronger and healthier and tastier... and less prone to insect attack...so I believe...it works for me
A note on Len's point about growing in a tangled "jumble"...I do likewise, and this year we have had a very dry (and cool season).
Almost without exception people (gardeners and farmers) have been complaining of grasshopper attack (one stopped gardening the attack was so ferocious at his place)...sure I had plenty of hoppers but I did not notice any observed damage...there could be two reasons here...one...I can't see any damage in my "jumble"... or two (as I believe)...the pests cannot really find the vegetables (at least those I favour) in amongst the weeds (vegetables I favour less plus a few unwanted plants)...too much green for them to eat and only a little of it high priority...spreads the damage load and keeps the soil moist (as in a rainforest) as well.
cheers
Peter

I like the idea of a woodash sprinkle. Thanks. :)

Thanks Peter for the mega advice. By woodash do you literally mean the ash of burnt wood? Or is it a product name?
I have just realised I was probably really silly to plant a decorative and edible alley of cabbage and broccoli together. they are only 20cm high and laready the caterpillers are enjoying them...

And where I have a bigger brocc' growing it is 'hiddden' amogst tomaotes and eggplants, but still the caterpillers find 'em!

is it possible to deter the butterflies before they lay the eggs, perhaps by putting some netting over the seedlings, this is what I was thinking of doing to protect my second lot of Brassica's, has anyone tried this?

mudlark

It would have to be pretty fine netting, then it should work.

What about the suggestions made here a while back of cut-out white butterflies on wire? So that the real cabbage white butterflies think that this patch is already crowded enough and go somewhere else? Might be worth a try. Another item on my to-do list. :)

We are having the same problem but have won the battle I think. Every day sees myself or hubby out checking the leaves for white eggs or caterpillars and disposing of them. The plants are now looking strong and healthy. Next year we have resolved to built a rectangular frame to fit over the bed with very fine chicken wire or flyscreen nailed to the frame.

Trouble is while we were rescuing the brocolli, the buk choy (pak choi) has been massacred. Didn't realise they were also a target until it was too late.

I have read that to deter the white butterflies you need to have your pretend butterflies about one per square metre
Other people have used half egg shells on the end of sticks
I know one seed company here in Aust did try this (after my suggesting it to them) but they had absolutely no affect but I do not know any details and I have suggested that they redo the trial and make sure they get the spacing close enough
If you are putting brassicas in now then the grubs should not be a problem...the frosts keep them out of action (mostly) and at least here in cool areas
cheers
Peter

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am now obsessively checking each leaf every day, squashing caterpillers and crushing the eggs. I have also begun to put in the fake butterflies.... which I admit are not very lifelike, but hopefully will fool the moths!
I don't know that I will get any frosts here in Sydney to reduce the moth problem, so I suppose this means I will have to be vigilant all winter.
Any other Sydney growers know about this?
janeP

The last couple of year I have grown the brassica's (broccoli, cauli's and cabbages) in Illawarra area (just south of Sydney) and have had problems with the caterpillars all through the growing season. I guess the no frost means we don't have the hiatus those in cooler clime's get.

I usually check my plants each day after I feed my chooks - who then get a tasty little treat of caterpillars! Yummo!

gday i had the same prob and lost all my babies brocs. this time round ive made a small kind of greenhouse which looks like a triangle tent frame.Then covered that in old white curtain to let the rain and sun in but those annoying green gobblers out.Will let you know how it goes.I am also planning on using it for other vegies for other bugs.Trying to keep chemical free .
Justin :)

I've been using Molasses spray with success. You still tend find small caterpillars, but they don't eat much! I've found that once they get they past that young juicy stage (seedlings) then the caterpillars won't do that much damage anyway. I've started harvesting the brocilli, but now the problem is little aphids living amongst the heads! Any ideas anyone?

What's molasses spray and what is it good for?
Now that the weather is cooler (at nights anyway!!) the cabbage moths/caterpillers have dropped right away. And my broccoli (the usual type) seems to be growing trouble free heads, while the otheer type (italian? with spindly leaves) has no heads at all yet.
Now i am dealing with itty bitty snails eating the cabbage leaves. I'm terrifed I am going to finally harvest the cabbages and there will be a colony of snails in the centre looking very well fed.

Hi Jampolk
The aphids you are experiencing (any aphids)do not attack healthy Brassicas until they begin to set seed.
At this stage the plant is extracting its nutrition from the plant bulk and storing it in the developing seeds...to make for happy healthy babies...at which stage the first of the decomposing organisms begin to do the job they were designed to do...ie decompose the dying plant
The aphids are the first wave of that system
If you are experiencing aphid attack prior to complete maturity of the plant,then you have a sickly plant...ie there is not enough (complete)nutrient in your soil...or your soil is out of balance...meaning some nutrients (although they are there) are not available to the plant and it is starving because of that imbalance
Now you can use sprays to kill off your "pests" but these sprays (even organically based ones) are poisonous and will exacerbate the situation
It is interesting to note that nowadays farmers (and gardeners too I would imagine) lose more produce to pests (anually) than they did before the advent of chemical sprays
The simplest way to make your plants healthy is to increase the level of humus in the soil...this humus (decomposed organic matter) is full of micro-organisms that actually attack fungal and bacterial plant pathogens as well as bonding with the plant roots and assisting with the uptake of nutrients...they even stimulate the plant to increase root forking and generating root growth thus making your plants healthier as well as more resistant to pathogenic attack
All this is a bit late for your broccoli now but if you decide to attack these aphids you could begin (if you haven't already done so) the downward spiraling cycle of soil infertility...despite the imaginary belief that you can pump it up with soluble chemicals
good luck with what you do anyway
cheers
Peter