Malcolm: thanks for the info. on pH meter. I checked on that before, and found that most of them are not accurate, and even the more expensive one above $200 need to be re-calibrated before each use. Red cabbage boiled in distilled water is quite accurate, since I am testing one agent against each other: color of Miracle-Gro potting soil is very pink, against the color of Scott's premium top soil with peat moss (greenish blue). I checked the colors of all 10 samples after 1 hour: peat moss gets even pinker, Scott's premium soil gets greener. Reg_pnw7: thank you for your feed back, my goal is to learn, and I don't need to be right, since I'm a newbie. Corn meal tested neutral, and the color of red cabbage boiled in my alkaline tap water is bluish purple, compared to the color of red cabbage boiled in distilled water, pinkish purple. If you google "optimal pH for fungi growth", there are several that cited preferably acidic for fungi growth. The red cabbage boiled in distilled water is an interesting experiment to test various materials. Try it and you'll see how accurate it is by testing with at least 10 mediums: few drops of vinegar, coffee ground, peat moss, baking soda, MiracleGro potting soil versus Scott's bagged top soil. The peat moss and MiracleGro potting soil get more pink after several hours, and the Scott's get more green. I used quite accurate fish tank litmus paper (Jungle brand from Walmart). It correctly gave a 7 for distilled water, and a 8 for my tap water. The direction said to read within the first minute - it took more than 10 minutes to get the epsom salt to dissolve, and this gave a more alkaline false reading at pH 7.3 to 7.5. However, when epsom salt is tetsted with red cabbage, this gave a correct neutral pH: the color did not changed compared with the control red cabbage boiled in distilled water. Blackspots can germinate on the ground and get splashed up by rain water. This year I have zero blackspots on 10 Austin roses mulched with very alkaline horse manure, as recommended by the British.

Should have posted this sooner but here is a reply I got back from an inquiry - Thank you for your interest in the National Center for Home Food Preservation. Regarding your question: (My sent message) Background, I am a home food preservationist with an extensive history of home sausage making (both with hot ((refrigeration required)) and some cold smoking ((humidity and temperature controlled to produce country cured sausage, no refrigeration required)), home canning (pressure canning only, I do not trust water bath under any circumstances) and extensive dehydrating experience. I have done a little pickling under the recommendations that the USDA has out in regards to fish and hardboiled eggs (including the need for refrigeration). However in my research into historic preservation techniques I have found references to pickling (especially) fish preserved at room temperature. The references also stated that the vinegar solution used at the time was homemade and was of strength higher then the present 5% available for modern commercial sales. Given that botulism spores growth is inhibited at a PH of 4.6 and they can not therefore produce the toxins, the fact that! a 10% or 15% acetic acid can be readily produced using food safe glacial acetic acid (99.85% available commercially mixed in proper ratio with water (yes, acid to water, I remember basic chemistry) and the PH of the 10% solution is approximately 2.4 and given that 1.5â x 1.5â x 0.75â pieces of fish would readily equalize PH is this theoretically a safe preservation method. Please do not give me the standard rely of not recommended or approved due to lack of experimental data etc. brush off, I am just looking for a theoretical answer. (The reply) This is Elizabeth Andress, Director of the National Center. I personally apologize for not getting back to you sooner, but we have been trying to keep up with people needing help with more standardized recommendations and methods of preserving. I can tell you that under the circumstances you describe with the low pH environments, that theoretically botulism spore germination and toxin production does not seem likely. But that is indeed as much as I can say. You would want to make sure the fish pieces get below pH 4.6 throughout fairly quickly to keep it longer at room temperature (probably at least within 24 hours). It is not a brushoff but a fact that no one here has any practical experience with pickling fish at room temperature (or for that matter, at any temperature). We do not have USDA pickling or smoking for fish on our website or in the USDA canning guide, but there is information from Oregon State University we have shared on smoking fish. I have pretty much relied on contacts in Alaska, or formerly in Oregon, for issues related to smoking and pickling of fish. You also might find an actual food microbiologist actively researching with bacteria at Univ. of Wisconsin who knows more in detail of C. bot. patterns. Thank you, Elizabeth Andress

Ah, hex you want this to be so wrong. Sorry but you can look up the "no nutritional value" on hydroponics it's well documented. An yes your right the plants don't care what the source of those elements are. But we're not talking about the plants but what "feeds on them". But lets talk about something else. You mentioned a perpetual motion machine. Well, yes that's what life is. it's in the very air we breathe. The plants breathe in bacteria that has the nitrogen cycle living inside it. The plant nitrogen (waste) cycle is part of that too. Even in an anaerobic system that still goes on. I have apple and pear trees that are ten years old that have been flowering, fruiting as well. With no intervention from me other than water if I notice. That means no fertilizer either. The bucket design captures rainfall so that wasn't often. Oh, that's right there's another difference. Capturing the rain water is taboo for your form of hydroponics. I mean with all the measurements and such. Haven't needed to take a reading ph or other wise in more than 20yrs. As for growing something..a tomato. Really. Is that the hill you standing on. I'm showing Cashews, Macadamia nuts,, coffee, 3 kinds of Bio-Fuel. Apples, pears, Plums, peaches all growing happily in the system. I bring pictures of everything. There even Strawberries flowering this year that grow anaerobically. Let's just off the top of my head there are Norfolk pines, Fiddle leaf figs, Sago palms, cactus, White and Yellow Birds of Paradise, Orchids, Pony Tail palms, Citrus. All growing quite happily. Those pictures are already on here. As for water consumption on average each tight 5gal container holds about three an a half gallons. That water last between 45 and 60 days with out rain. If I get a good rain once a month I don't have to water at all.

Hi RJ, I have never bothered with measuring ph, so I don't know whether my garden is acid or alkaline. Only just recently I have heard that the SA standard for potting mixes is between ph 5.5 and 6.5. I am mainly growing succulents (all kinds, from all over the world, but obviously have more South African stuff), trying to get most of them out into the ground but not succeeding, so I have many in pots now as well. For these I have been using a mixture of commercial seedling soil and coarse river sand for years (at a ratio of about 2:1, but increasing the sand for more rot-prone species) for everything, all the succulents, bulbs and ground orchids - after all they all grow together in their habitat. I would only add acid compost or lime if it is specifically mentioned for a certain species. Half the time I don't know what I am growing anyway, or where it comes from. And if I do know where it comes from, I have no idea what the ph is in that paricular place.... When preparing a garden bed for succulents and bulbs specifically, I just add compost and river sand to the ordinary garden soil. It seems to work well for all of them, and also for me, as I have far too many plants to make up individual mixes. One thing I would routinely add to the mix though is bone meal - if I didn't have any dogs! Did it for the hanging baskets last year, and it worked wonders. But for anything positioned below 1,5 meters I had to learn the hard way that this is an absolute no-no if you have canines... Maddy