Just wanted to mention that for me, 'Mrs. John Laing' doesn't need pegging the way the majority of hybrid perpetuals do to maximize bloom potential. I have two bushes of MJL and keep them pruned somewhat like a floribunda and this rose blooms just fine as an upright bush. I agree with you that some of the HP can be stingy bloomers. In fact, for me most of the ones I grow I consider mainly once-bloomers with the rare and highly unpredictable scattered fall blooms. But I have to say that in my climate, good rebloom is a rare commodity due to my short growing season and I may be more forgiving than others. Celeste

imo, this is the only way to grow RV and its lovely sport, Mme Pierre Oger. It is an obligingly upright and slender rose although it does have a bit of twigginess: it retains its flexible growth throughout its life. These canes are easily bent and trained, ideally on a freestanding rail and wire or post and rail fence (it does appreciate good ventilation) and also appreciated a little dappled shade - the petals are very fine, almost translucent and does not do very well in rain. However, if you are completely against spraying, I would not put this rose in a really prime spot because it will, at some point, defoliate with BS (it occurs early in the season for me, although it quickly recovers new growth so I would not be totally put off by a temporary condition).

Decobug - beautiful clem! Another one that looks very much like it is H.F. Young. I have 3 planted behind my Louise Odier, Mme. Ernest Calvat, and Aloha. I think it complements medium pinks like that very well. It would be gorgeous with RV - both have sort of silvery hues, and are very saturated mid-pastels. For a totally different look - I think Warsaw Nike would be smashing and just smolder with RV as companion. Redsox - Yes. I have tried to go back and plant a clem with an established rose several times. Not fun. It's a lot easier to do them both at once. And, your clem will probably do it's thing earlier than your rose, depending of course on the sizes you're planting. If you're going with Silver Star Vinery, it will not take long to settle in, as those plants are huge. I've found RV to be a slow starter like most Bourbons.

One of the advantages of this Bourbon is that it does not mind being pruned-it will give you more rebloom if you prune frequently. Reine Victoria is a long caned Bourbon and is very apical dominant-the tip bud supresses the side laterals-it really responds to pegging(pulling the tip down to supress it) and pruning so you can keep it smaller if you want. I nip away at mine all during the summer reshaping the bushes all along. Feed them well since they keep blooming. I see no difference in vigor between the two. I would chose MPO of the two because the flower is more unusual but that is me. I do love the cupped roses. patricia