I have become convinced that ND is not suitable for an arbour unless you combine it with a swag and then diligently train the canes onto the swag. In late July we will be cutting our ND back completely, to the top of the arbour and starting over, swagging every cane of a suitable size from the begining. The consensus of rose folks seems to be that ND will survive the treatment. We didn't start swagging our ND until there was already a thick accumulation of canes on the top of the arbour and dangerous tentacles reaching out everywhere - those thorns are NASTY! Even with the swag, the volume on top of the arbour has grown, because it's not easy to work with the stuff up there because of the thick tangle of older canes - not to mention at least three different clematises... I am concerned at this point that ND will bring down the arbour/south alley gate if we don't do something about it! So it's time to clear the slate an start again. My advice is only go for it if you've got an appropriate set-up to control it and are willing to be diligent in controlling it (which we weren't for the first few years, and then it was too late...) Given our experience I really think the appropriate place for ND is trained along a relatively low fence (4' or so); tie it in to the fence as if the fence was a swag. A low fence would make it easy to work with it - as opposed to needing a stepladder in the case of an arbour. Good luck.

I made an error in my original message. My apologies. Someone else in my household is in charge of the watering, hence my error. The roses are on their own irrigation system and are only watered once a week unless you count the unintentional watering that the neighbor gives them. Thank you JAYK for your advice. You said just what I was afraid of--that it wasn't necessary for me to pull the leaves off the plant. I just spent over an hour reading some of the rose forum thread on chemicals to use on black spot and am still (more?) confused. Do you or anyone else have any advice for the rose bush that I pruned almost all the leaves off of (only about 6 leaves left on it now)? Do I use the neem oil my local nursery suggested (and have already purchased)or do I heed some research I did that shows neem oil can interfere with photosynthesis and wait for more leaves to grow before using neem? Or use something else entirely? A relative says he remembers using something many years ago that went in with the fertilizer in granular form and so didn't need to be sprayed and thus limited the safety precautions which I would certainly appreciate if it works. I didn't see anything about this product in the thread on black spot that I read; maybe it was there and I missed it but most of the discussion seemed to focus on commercial sprays. I'll do so more reading tomorrow and see if I can find a reference to it. I'd very much like to save the bush; it was well-established, planted about 15 years ago. I'd rather not be the one to kill it. Thanks.

Ooh those look lovely. I suggest you think about purchasing one of those plastic greenhouse thingies. One that looks something like this : This will help keep the moisture and heat in. Also, you can try using heating mats under the pots and seed trays. I've also heard that old electric blankets work well for this sort of thing. Lastly you need to put the lights as close to the plants as possible without touching them. Otherwise your seedlings will grow very tall and spindly and will become weak plants. The roses would benefit from the stronger light too. also, nor humidity can bring fungus so be prepared to spray them should they get blackspot or mildew and remove any leaves or plants that become infected to avoid spreading of the disease. These things spread fast in such close quarters. You'll soon find that these grow lights are great to have for getting a jump start on seed staring each year. I've had petunia and marigold seedlings even start to bloom under my lights. And like Francis says above, you don't need fancy full spectrum grow lights for this. Any florescent light will do, but the brighter the better and more neutral is better too (not too warm, not too cool) as white as possible. If you are new to seed starting try starting out with Petunias. They are super easy to grow from seed. Also Zinnias, snapdragons and marigolds are all very easy from seed too. Happy growing!

They look great! Just let them do their thing and they will eventually reward you with long(-er) growth. But depending on your growing conditions and how they happen to like you, they may never climb; neither of those roses is officially a climber. David Austin sells exactly the same roses both as bush and climber...there's no difference other than the culture you give the plant. They can be encouraged to climb by tying them up as they grow. Every time they send up a foot or more of new growth, tie it up, even if you have to use stakes before they reach the trellis/lattice/deck. This will encourage longer, "limper" growth. But in zone 6 they may never be the lush, long-limbed girls you're dreaming of. But they will both be gorgeous roses, none the less. If that's deck railing I think I see, then they should easily reach the top with some sideways spread to spare. John P.S. If you lived in California, you'd probably have the opposite problem. THERE, almost all Austin English roses become raging monsters that they can't keep tamed, lol.