no, but someone on the radio last week said pepper had worked. Must have used a heck of a lot, live in a dry area or got a small garden!

Citronella is supposed to deter them. No personal experience though.
Dee.

Any plant can decrease cat activity - if you throw them hard and accurate enough...*evil grin*

Orange peel scattered around the garden is supposed to work, as are napthalene flakes (mothballs).

Have tried most things but I have found that a herb (cat deterrent) has been the most effective to keep them off my herb garden, will try to find the name and post it.

Don't use mothballs if you have small children, because they are poisonous.
May I ask what the actual problem is with these cats visiting?
Dee.

I love cats but my cat is an insider on account of the birds.
Cats are not stupid, they won't keep visiting if they find thet get a big shock every time they do.
I stood on our upstairs deck and simply threw those little weeny fire crackers (which are illegal) (confiscated from teenage son)at the cats. Only took about 6 crackers and cardiac resuscitation of husband and literally "boom" cats are gone.

Hi again, found the name of the cat deterrent for you. Its called "Ruta Graveolens" - "Kitty Scat". It is classed as a herb and I found it on the herb stand at my local nursery, the foliage is quite attractive .

Thank you all

A small cone shaped piece of lead inserted into the left ear will keep cats away. Gauranteed !!!
Look after Australias fauna first.

Thanks for your "lead" advise. This question wouldn't have arisen if owners took responsibility for their pets.

I think to solve all these annoying pet problems.....the animals should not be sold in pet shops.

The only way you could get a dog or a cat should be through a registered breeder, and the purchaser should have to obtain a licence as well. There should be conditions about caring for the animal.

My son recently purchase a small reptile. Licence from NPWS, $150, the lizard cost $70. The breeder was licenced. I thought this was a brilliant system, as the cost really makes one think of the real committment in owning the animal.

With those cute puppies and kittens in pet shops, they are marketed to be an impulse buy. Then the other day in the local Westfield there was a guy in the carpark, with a box of puppies, handing them out to people. Thats rediculous !

So many of these impulse buy pets end up at the RSPCA, or roaming the streets annoying people.

Popi

Popi, your talking my language !!
Feral animals,and cats[cuddly kittens] are the worst.You are spot on....High cost licensing is the only way to solve the problem of Australia's vanishing wildlife. Bloody hell ! we are now eating foreign vegetables from our supermarkets and we live in a country with every conceivable climate to enable us to grow whatever we wish whenever we wish?
R

I read recently of a new suburb in Melbourne that has completely banned the keeping of cats. The idea of course, is to encourage native wildlife, but unfortunately it has allowed the increase in another feral population - RATS!
I agree about increased cost of registration, but I do not agree about having to purchase from a registered breeder. That would restrict they type of pet one could own, disallowing many most suitable cross bred animals. There are also a lot of registered breeders who are little more than puppy farms, keeping their animals in the same manner as battery chickens.
Sadly, it seems that we get as many complaints on these forums, about possums, as we do about cats. Maybe tolerance is a problem? The best way to keep both out of the garden is to own a dog, and keep him/her restricted to your own house and yard.

Hear, hear Sparaxis!!! I have to agree with everything you said. If we have to pay exhorbitant fees, then they should be looking into just WHO is breeding these animals. There are a lot of genuine, caring breeders out there, but unfortunately just as many who are in it for pure greed.
I personally know of people in the neighbourhood who have expensive breeds of animals who are not managed properly. As two examples there is a Maltese dog down the road who is always out and wanders into any yard it chooses, the Siamese cat a street away who catches both birds and possums.
I have a dog (a Jack Russell from the Victorian Animal Aid)who is not allowed to wander. I have a cat ( a moggy also from the animal home)who is kept inside (except for an hour or two a week under supervision). I like to encourage wildlife to my home and encourage birds with baths and appropriate plantings. So I don't agree it is just about breeds and fees. I really think if people are responsible (and tolerant as Sparaxis said) there is room for all of us.
Cheers,
Dee.

But none of the above really addresses the immediate problem, which is to stop animals digging and fouling garden beds.

I've been reading in various garden magazines about a product which I intend to purchase to stop my cats and neighbourhood dogs from doing this in my own garden. It's called Cat Scat. It seems a very ingenious idea and ecologically sound as well. I've tried citrus peelings, citronella and the jelly stuff and none of them last very long so you have to keep applying them and I don't want this stuff in my herbs or veggies anyway.

The plastic spike method looks like a great long-term, dare I say permanent solution to me. Works for cats, dogs, possums and chickens too (with some caveats and adjustment) according to the info on the site.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cat Scat

In answer to Dee,It was my impression Dee that you agree that cats are a problem and that you "control" your own cat otherwise a problem could occur.High licence fees or whatever is required to at least make people aware of the damage that these animals do.
The 'catspike' is another admittance of the damage cats do and that a more permanant solution would be beneficial rather than everyone spending money to temporaraly keep them away.
I remember a prominent Australian naturalist once suggeting we introduce a virrulent form of cat flu into the wild population while responsible owners could vaccinate against the flu, thus wiping out feral cats at least in the short term.
PS: nobody bit about the foriegn vegetables in our shops,surely we cannot allow the Govt. to allow this in Australia when we can grow our own food?????

Well Follicle, I cannot help but be a little cynical when it comes to fees. We pay registration fees for our cats and dogs now and as far as I can see, it is just a revenue source for the council. If they were serious, they would come to your home and make sure you had the facilities and the knowledge to take care of the animal you were registering.

I am not totally against fees if it actually achieves something. I think education has a very important role. This starts initially with parents, and schools could play a vital role in it as well.

I do agree with the comments about pet shops. I think too many purchases are 'impulse buys' and it is forgotten in the heat of the moment that the cute puppy or kitten will grow up and be with you for many years (not to mention costing you a bit for food, vets, etc)

I think as soon as people start making jokes about shooting animals, it just gets my heckles up! There have been a few cases of cat cruelty in our area lately and I really feel that talk like that doesn't help. If you get people offside they will never listen to your arguments. It would be wonderful if we could all work together to solve these problems....and yes, there definitely are problems!

Cheers,
Dee.

I live in an area that is full of native birds and animals and have always kept cats. The resident goannas stalked and killed at least 15 guinea pigs, the phascogales murdered two pet quail the first night they were here, and the rats that come for my neighbours macadamia nuts have no doubt contributed to the demise of at least some of the ground nesting birds (pardalotte, whip birds) not to mention compete with finches for scarce grass seed. What do antechinus eat? We have them also. The carpet snake(s) are partial to the odd hen or bush turkey, the crows relish young chickens, the fantail pigeons were like sitting ducks for the peregrine falcon and the eels in the dam have been seen pulling young wild ducklings under the water. Only two days ago a pheasant cuckoo was seen eating a young pigeon and the currawongs aren't known for their vegetarian diet. In spite of all this my garden is still full of numerous different birds, pardalottes nest each year, the whip birds still come and finches nest each year less than metre from the back door. Yes I have removed three feral cats in that time but over many years of observation with at least ten different domestic cats I have never seen one that caused the destruction that the local drivers, dogs or wild and native animals can and do do.
Look at the bigger picture. I firmly believe that cats by killing rats and mice do a worthwhile service - If these vermin were allowed to breed unchecked there would be no food at all for the ground dwelling marsupials and grass eating birds. I do agree that the fouling of your garden by cats is unacceptable - Hose the cat every time you see it in your yard or package the scats and return them nicely wrapped to the cats/dogs owner-they'll get a lovely surprise when they open it. I hope that I have provided food for thought, and encouraged a more tolerant attitude towards all animals and their place in the scheme of things.

Follicle wrote:
"PS: nobody bit about the foriegn vegetables in our shops,surely we cannot allow the Govt. to allow this in Australia when we can grow our own food?????"

Not sure what you mean Follicle? This already happens here in Australia. Check out your supermarket. There has been a thread on the conversations list for some time. Much of our apple juice, for instance, is from reconstituted powder, imported from China!

Dee - I agree about registrations. There has been some suggestion locally that the shires are just rechannelling pet rego's into other areas, instead of using the money for education and pet control.
re the bullet method of control - we have a neighbors doberman that terrorises people who walk along our lovely bush road, either with their pet or without. It is kept locked indoors in the day time, and roams at night, killing sheep far and wide. The owner's other dog, a pitbull, disappeared very shortly after the new containment rules were introduced for pitbulls. It is the owners who need to be punished for such behaviour. This is where our registration money should be used.
I have often been late to pay my registrations, but do pay them every year. I have never had a follow up reminder. I have never been chastised for being late - I think the Councils know full well that they only pick up on about 1/4 of pet rego's and are grateful for what they get.
They have started doing cheap microchipping, and this is a good thing, but generally only taken up by responsible pet owners anyway.
While I can see merit in the biological method of control, I could not agree to the release of yet another virus. Cat flu is hideously cruel to the animals, and with all the talk of viruses mutating and crossing populations - not a good idea to introduce more!

Might jump on my soapbox for a moment too.

The money collected by rego's goes to the running of the pound. The pound catches any animal on the loose in the suburbs yet it is only dogs that have to be registered. Why? If we all pay registration it would be cheaper and i dare say more efficient in the long run.

Secondly, our neighbour has a siamese, it is NOT popular with the neighbourhood. When i suggested the owners get an outdoor cat enclosure, she was horrified because they are expensive. We had to erect a $2000 fence (when we could least afford it), but a $700 enclosure is a waste of money for these people.

The cat is also responsible for damaging the paint work on 5 of our cars 2 of my parents cars and peeing in the aircon of my mothers, (it still stinks) oh and my aunt's new mercedes got a bad scratch too! we worked this out to be damage to over $300 000 worth of cars from one cat!

so dog owners have to pay registration, fencing, and the costs of damage to their property. While cat owners don't have to do a thing.

Don't get me wrong i don't hate cats, and i couldn't bring myself to hurt it, but irresponsible cat owners are costing myself and family a fortune!

Do they not have cat registration in Qld? I have always paid it here in country Vic.

No, They don't in Mackay. A few people have tried to gee it up but the council says it is too hard to regulate cats.
Ree

In my area, some person got so annoyed by people's wandering dogs, they actually put poisonous baits out and about 7 dogs were killed. As to date this offender has not been found. You can all imagine the big caffufle (how do you spell that), this caused amongst dog owners. It is a terrible thing to do that to someone's pet.....BUT.... treasured pet should not be bothering other people and should not be left to wander the streets and bushland on its own. I think that is extremely irresponsible and I can understand why some people are driven to madness by the intrusion of other people's pets.

Just this morning, walking down to get the paper, there are two dogs, sitting in my large garden sunning themselves. What am I supposed to do, this is not acceptable.

Thanks FOLLICLE for your vote of support, with my idea.

Also agree with you about Chinese vegies, dont buy them, its a disgrace, and californian strawberries.

Popi

To Sparaxis.......I did check our local supermarket.thats why I wrote what I did. Strawberry jam from Egypt,Noodles from Thialand,oranges from California,Cabbages and caulies from China. Give me a break here!Apparantly we taught the chinese [in China,not here] how to grow these vegetables,now its coming back to bite us on the bum. As I have said, why on earth does this country have to buy food in from anywhere at all. I just think it is disgraceful
to say the least.
Also, how do we know what these other countries are feeding the plants let alone spraying heavens knows what on them????
Re: the cat problem I STILL get the impression that you agree there is a problem here? Its all very well talking about how responsible YOU are its the people who don't give a toss my discussion is aimed at. Are you aware there are feral cats destroying endangered AUSTRALIAN wildlife in the middle of the deserts in central Oz.Just ask your local wildlife department. If they say there is not a problem I will shut up about this subject. But it is my own belief that most of our fauna is doomed in the long term.I once saw a family in a 4 wheel drive,miles from anywhere, dump 7 kittens out of their car and drove away.
As for the comments from Plantsplus, you don't know how lucky you are to have so much wildlife around you but hey! make the most of it. I cannot see where you are cominmg from by your critisism of indigenous animals taking and eating other wildlife,eg. pheasant cuckoo taking a pidgeon. That bird has as many rights to eat a pidgeon because it BELONGS here and that is what they do.Cats on the other hand don't belong here.
I'm not a bad bloke really, I just fear for what is happening to our fauna, oh! and I do so enjoy healthy,lively debate.
R

I agree that htere is a huge problem - not just cats, but rabbits, rats, goats, etc. Take the problemw they are having trying to increase Bilby populations. All attempts are being devestated by feral cats.
You COULD say the pheasant cuckoo has the right to eat the pidgeon simply because it is a native, but I have a dreadful image in my mind of the same argument being extended to human populations :-) Is the argument still valid? Let's not go there.

I use water bombs with a little bit of some kind of scent in the water. It does'nt hurt the cat except scare the living daylights out of them, and as someone said they are'nt dumb and soon get the message. You can get pretty accurate after awhile throwing them. It is a little bit of fun without doing the cat any real harm.

Hi Sparaxis, "Not going there" We are the cruelist,most selfish b#!?st*#@ under the sun. Now that discussion would really open Pandora's box.
gratlog, I think the water bombs are a good idea but I would prefer something stronger?? Something a little more permanent perhaps. "Scent" ? what on earth do you mean??

lots of good helpful (non cruel) suggestions in this thread, and after seeing two recent cases of cruelty to cats on the news, I just dont like it when any one condones hurting animals. I have lots of birds,lizards, skinks and geckos in my garden and we've always had cats in my neighbourhood so the native wildlife isnt becoming extinct around here (quite the opposite!) and as we get rats and mice too, Im glad the cats are around or we'd probably have a plague, Id rather have the cats around than the rats any day. the biggest threat around here is large trees getting bulldozed to make way for redevelopment and the birds lose their homes so I think cats can be a bit of scapegoat when we people do a lot more harm. I think tolerance is a good thing, some people dont like cats, some dont like possums but then some people will complain when the birds scratch up the dirt out of garden beds too

Follicle, the cats absolutley hate getting any strange smell on themselves so just a couple of drops of any smelly stuff(pine-o-clean even) will do the trick.

Trancegemini you're right about rodents as well. We have a few aviaries around here so they attract the mice so just wish the cats would chase them instead of the birds.

Changing the subject for a tick, did anyone see the 7-30 Report this evening? [22/6/05]
There was an article on vegetable imports, from China,Belgium;Peru, NZ to mention some.
I would like to ask Dee and the other ladies in this forum [and men shoppers] if they are aware of our farmers being put out of business by these imports and do they indeed CHECK to see were their purchases are coming from? Isn't it worth a few cents more to buy Australian goods. We are all gardeners here,We can grow our own food or at least buy Aussie surely? We are always proud to hear that Australia is the "clean and green" country.

follicle,

It seems you're desperate to discuss the presence of imported foods. That's fine and it's a worthwhile topic. Might I suggest you make a new thread though? The original post is about cats on properties and people searching for threads might get a bit confused when they come here to learn about cat control and wind up with a topic about foreign foods.

I stress that I am not endeavouring to admonish you for changing the topic to one less noble - just that it might be more useful to create a new topic with a subject line more reflective of the content.

Here it is. I don't think it got as much attention as it deserved, but it is an oof topic discussion, and many people don't bother with the conversations threads.
Perhaps we could tie it on with "grow your own"?

Here is a link that might be useful: The Fresh Food People???

I dont have any problem with any animal killing to eat native or introduced. Im not vegetarian and cannot condem any animal for doing what I do every time I eat a calf, lamb or fish. I resent domestic cats getting all the bad press when I have observed that they are no worse than any other creature. I wonder how many small animals Tasmanian tigers, and quolls killed before they were exterminated or nearly so by humans. Have the scientists researched this? Feral cats are there because people dump them - Shoot the people solve the problem ? Cats are on this earth for a reason - perhaps the Greater plan was that they become companions to man and go with him to populate the earth and kill the rats and mice which he also transported with him. We have done more harm to our planet than any other creature. We have interfered in the natural cycle of feast and famine which nature uses to requlate pest populations Humanity is the wild card in the balance of nature - not the cat. If your neighbours cat is fouling your posessions maybe taking photos of it in the act - showing them to the owner and requesting compensation or that they keep the animal contained is the first step. They cannot deny evidence and if they allow it to continue a solicitors letter might be cheaper than the ongoing damage bill. Nobody wants to upset neighbours but it seems give and take is somewhat one sided if the cat is causing this amount of damage (cars etc) After you take the photo apply the hose to the cat.

To Plantsplus, resent cats getting bad press.
If you have not observed that cats are no worse than other creatures then you are going about your daily life with your eyes closed.As far as Australia is concerned,the cuddly cat is the biggest killer of our fauna than any other animal on the continent. I invited you to ask your local wildlife dept if this was true or not. Did you? I think not. Your comment about Tas,tigers killing other animals is frankly unbelievable. Before we set foot on the place there must have been a natural balance, Tigers took what they needed, thats what they did. Otherwise Tasmania would have been full of Tigers and nothing else.
Cats kill for pleasure, make no mistake. They are unselective when it comes to being hungry. Australian animals are mostly passive creatures and are no match for a marauding feline.
As far as taking a picture of a cat piddling in my garden and showing this to the owner??? He would think I was a bloody lunatic, I will deal with this kind of cat problem in my own way. I couldn't kill a cat outright but it wouldn't come into my garden again !!

The neighbours cats (at least 1/2 doz)pee & poo in my garden. When doing so they invariably dig up newly planted patches/or existing & leave nasty smells; trigger all the sensor lights. I've tried all the above discussed to no avail & a longer term solution is reqd. What wld that be? Any suggestions? I'm abt to try installing old cds & spikes - cats hate reflective surfaces I'm told.
There is a Coleus develeoped in Germany that smells like cat poo to cats & they hate it but no nurseries in Perth sells them. Maybe elsewhere in Australia?

Bookpert....no idea where you are in WA but if you are close enough to the Cat Haven, maybe you could trap the cats and if there is no collar with address/phone number take them to the Cat Haven, if there is an address/telephone number you could return it letting the "owners" know that next time you find it trespassing it will be off to the Haven for it and hopefully a nice fee for them to retrieve it, may make them think about letting their so called much loved pet run the gauntlet of the outside world if it is going to hit the hip pocket, seeing as the thought of it being killed is not enough for them to keep it on their own property.

Cheryl.

Follicle- Like all animals cats kill to eat and they also need bacteria from birds to keep their gut bacteria in balance (ask a vet) but will only kill a bird maybe twice a year to satisfy this need. As I say in my post feral cats are very destructive (as are unfed domestic cats whose owners think they dont need to feed a cat-plenty of these types out there too) my coments about bad press refer to the hysteria which some wildlife "experts" try to create. The studies of cat scats (look it up) by people who seek facts not half truths have shown clearly the diet of feral and domestic cats and provided factual information( for those of us who actually observe our world with an open mind.) about what these animals eat. The fact is we do not live in a natural world - this continent has been touched heavily by human occupation and it has been more destructive of the native animal population than any no of animals - introduced or native. Your welcome to your opinion - Its a pity you choose to try to denigrate someone who doesnt share it.

Plantsplus....I have to disagree with your statement regarding cats only killing birds twice a year. I know for a fact that they kill birds on a daily basis. I have witnessed it myself and they are not content with killing and consuming or part consuming the bird and go home for 6 mths they will return later in the day/evening/night/early morning (after being chased off) to kill again. I am talking about domestic cats that are not undernourished, not feral ones as there are no feral ones in my area so cannot comment on their behaviour/habits.

Cheryl.

The only situation where I can imagine Domestic cats killing 1 or 2 birds per year, is a domestic cat that is kept indoors virtually all year, or in an area where the bird life has been devestated.
My cat had ample and constant access to food, but still managed to kill more birds than I could tolerate (hence no new cats after Dinah passed on), and they were only the birds I saw - could have been plenty I didn't see.
Also cats do not just kill to eat - female cats tend to do this as a natural survival instinct, but male cats kill for the sheer pleasure, and often do not consume their kill.
Bacteria from birds? I never heard that one on 5 years of vet school and many years of practice! What cats get from birds and small mammals, that is good for their guts, is roughage, in the form of fur and feathers. They need this far more than dogs. I once attended several tigers from one of the circuses that go round the states. They were ailing because they were being fed only raw meat, and were getting no roughage from fur in their diets. You can satisfy your cat's need for this by giving it an unskinned rabbit or letting it eat dead mice or rats. THEN - de worm it because it will have picked up worm larvae from the mice (and birds if it eats them).

I think people will go a fair way towards solving the problem in the next few years, because, sadly, fur is back in vogue. Have you noticed all the fur coats and furry collars in shops. Mostly just synthetic of course. Back in the 70's we, and many neighbours) lost a cat to a fur trapper - mostly tortoiseshell, and I knew of many people who were losing dogs - black and white ones in particular. The people doing the killing were fussy about colours and types - no doubt to satisfy their market.

To plantsplus, I would like to apologise if you thought I was putting you down.That was not the intention.
I obviously feel very strongly about the cat situation but I do feel that you are naive when it comes to the cat situation.

Follicle. Apology accepted. I do not say cats are good I just have not observed that they are as bad as some people would have others believe.
Spraxis. I cant argue with you as a vet - I am simply repeating what my Vet told me. I have adopted over the years 6 abandoned cats. I have ensured that each one was desexed and kept inside at night. All except one presented me with their kills (usually under the bed) and my opinion is based on the observations of this behaviour and observations during daily work in the garden where a heap of feathers is not an easy thing to miss. As I have stated in an earlier post my garden is full of a great variety of both animals, birds, snakes frogs and lizards and over the years the population and variety has grown. I have worked hard to restore a varied habitat to my land and have seen bandicoots, whipbirds and black cockatoos return to the area - the real enemy to these is not cats - it is the formula gardens full of duranta, murraya, agapanthus, liriope and mondo which my neighbours choose to establish and which provide neither shelter or food sufficient to support vialble populations of any species.