I have to agree w/ couple posters above. 1-2 tbls of laundry detergent is not enough for larger or large loads. From what I read here, people try to use as little as possible but it does more harm than good. Specially if you have hard water. Hot water is a must and so is extra rinse or two. For example: full load of heavy towels will need more detergent and lots of extra water to rinse it too. When I do towels only load, I never use more than 1/2 size load and always add 2 extra rinses to it and water plus. Usually it is better to do mixed loads,heavy/light all together. It rinses out better. I only have white/light loads or dark. Bigger washer isn't necessary better IMO. You can stuff ton in it, it will wash it good w/ proper amount of detergent but it won't rinse out good. It will take several extra rinses to make sure there is no residue left. My tiny FL does better job than the big one. I think they build these water conserving machine on purpose. They know people will feel bad using extra water and so over time it will ruin the laundry and the machine which it leads to buying new machine and more clothes. Personally I don't care If I use lots of water. Our laundry is clean and whites are white. I have towels from 15 years ago that are still white and the edges just starting to frey. Towels for 2.50 from biglots! I don't use bleach ever. So don't be affraid to use more detergent and extra rinse.

@slogan3561 The cotton on the market today is fine. We have Mele washers and whites come out white. Keeping them white means you need to have the following: 1. If your water is hard (lots of minerals) a water softener should be used. 2. Heavily soiled whites should be pre-treated and soaked to loosen soil before the main wash. Use the washers soak cycle or a pre-wash. 3. A good detergent with the proper amount. Not the cheapest thing you find on sale. 4. A good Oxygen bleach. Make sure to use a water temp of 140F (60C) or higher to get the maximum effect from the oxygen bleach. If you have a clothes line, use it. The UV light from the sun works great to bleach whites and it's free! Many of today's washers are not built with the consumer in mind. They are built to get the maximum rebate from the government for their eco-friendliness.

Sodium citrate/citric acid (same thing) is in practically every liquid detergent I've researched. Yet I know that precipitates and hard water did NOT cause my towels to feel stiff and harsh. I got this stiff result after ONE wash (so, no "buildup" possible) with a liquid detergent (Kirkland Free & Clear) that by itself, or with hard water minerals, feels soft even when not rinsed out of the fabric. 1) I used exactly the same detergent and the same hard water in my TL; towels came out soft. 2) My experiments have proven that hard water alone, or hard water plus liquid detergents, even when completely left in the fabric and allowed to dry, do not leave the fabric feeling stiff Now, powder detergent (Gain, Clout) and cleaning agents (OxiClean, borax) not rinsed out DO leave fabrics feeling stiff. But this was not what caused my towels to be stiff. Fabrics with liquid detergent residue not rinsed out all feel soft. (Woolite, which contains a lot of soap, also feels slightly, well, soapy. NOT stiff or scratchy, though.) After rinsing though, SOME liquids leave fabrics feeling softer than others. The ones that leave fabrics feeling softer contain "fabric conditioners." "Fabric conditioner" is another name for "fabric softener." These work by leaving a residue behind -- a soft-feeling residue.

This article outlines some of the effects of water temperature on cleaning performance in a clothes washer - specifically, the removal of various types of stains. The experimental data below serves to illustrate the importance of proper water temp, and one of the advantages of having an internal heater in a clothes washer (that can reach these "very high" wash temps). [See also the related FAQ article, "Clothes Washers - Internal Heater Advantages ??".] This is a simple test, washing various "tough" stains with a measured dose of a given detergent and no pre-treatment. [Report first posted in the Appliances Forum by Alice (Alice_61) on 22 September 2002 in the "Technical Suds Part 2" thread - thanks, Alice!]: ------------------------------ The effect of temperature on stain removal in the Miele W1918A washer I washed a stain strip with a 10 lb. load of cottons and 2 oz (by weight) of Tide HE powder in the Intensive Cotton cycle, using each of the available temperatures on the Miele W1918A: 85F (30C), 105F (40C), 120F (50C), 140F (60C), 155F (70C), 180F (80C), and 190F (90C). RESULTS First, a few general comments before I get into the particulars of specific stains: 1. Before these stain tests, I had choosen wash temperatues strictly according to the user's guide. Because we have so few whites, I had never done a wash above 140F. I was willing to go to higher temperatures with the test load, because it consisted of old clothes and rag material. After trying the 190F wash, I was very impressed at how colorfast most items were. There were a couple of things that colored the drain water (colored jeans), so I replaced them with other items for the test load. 2. The white background of the stain swatches was much whiter at the higher wash temperatures. This didn't become too noticable until 155F, and increased to a very bright white at 190F. It seems from this and the better stain removal of certain stains, that the bleach was becoming more active at higher temperatures. 3. I used some old, cheap (the 12/$3.00 type) wash clothes for the test load. We had gotten to the point of using them as cleaning clothes. After about 25 washings with the test load, many at high temperatures and some with considerable detergent doses, these wash clothes were very clean and bright. I happened to find some identical wash clothes stashed away and compared them to these very washed ones. Not only were the very washed ones much cleaner and brighter than the old ones, they did not seem any more faded than the old ones. In fact, they looked a whole lot better. Perhaps greying of the old washclothes made them seem less colored. I think this and #1 alleviates my concern about fading at high temperatures, at least for colorfast items. 4. The detergent perfume smell is considerably reduced by washing at high temperature. I didn't really notice this until the last two loads (180 and 190F) so I can't say exactly at which temperature this occured. SPECIFIC STAINS Blueberry juice and grape juice: These stains certainly responded well to increased temperature. I'll describe the results for blueberry juice. Grape juice is similar. At 85 and 120F, the stain was not oxidized (it remained blue) and not much was removed. At 120F oxidation started (turned brown) and the stain was lighter, though still with distinct edges at 120. At 155F and above, the stain was lighter and more diffuse. By 190F, the stain was still a light brown but one has to look for it. Tomato sauce: This stain also benefited from heat. At 85F, it was a yellow stain. It got progressively lighter up to 155F, then stayed about the same: a light, but still noticable stain. In another test, the remainder of this stain was removed by soaking in a sodium percarbonate solution. Avacado: This oily stain also benfited from heat. It progressed from a fairly dark grey-green at 85F to a much lighter shade at 180F. Grass stain: This result was interesting to me because it was not what I expected. I had expected that grass stain would do better at a low temperature, since it is a protein based stain. However, the stains from 85 to 140F varied some in intensity, but were visible. The stains at 155F and above were not visible. Blood: Likewise, this protein based stain was almost, but not completely removed at 85, 105, and 120F. It was completely removed at higher temperatures. In addition, the white was quite a bit whiter at higher tempertures. Chocolate syrup: All the washes left about the same intensity stain, faint, but clearly visable. In a different experiment, I was able to remove the remaining chocolate stain by soaking it in a sodium percarbonate solution. Dirt (clay): This common stain proved to be a very difficult stain to remove completely. The stain seemed to show a little response to temperature. The stain left for 85, 105, and 120F were a prominent orange. It was slightly better for 140 and 155F. For 180 and 190F, the stain was better, but still noticeable. Later bleaching with sodium percarbonate did not improve the stain. Soaking in white vinegar afterward did not, either. I plan to try a rust remover and a couple of pretreatments. Used motor oil: This is a really tough stain. As expected, the stain improved with higher temperatured. At 85F, the stain was quite dark and by 190F, it was about 1/2 as dark, but still quite noticeable. SUMMARY Stain removal of all of the stains, with the exception of chocolate syrup improved at higher temperatures, often temperatures above that usually recommended for colored clothing. I would like to find an easy way to test for colorfastness, since high temperature is a powerful stain removal aid. In choosing between washers with various top temperatures, it is useful to know what difference in stain removal the top temperature might make. For those of us challanged weekly by stained laundry, it seems a very high temperature would be a plus. Alice ------------------------------ [first added to Appliances FAQ: 21 October 2002] [added to Laundry FAQ: 21 May 2003]