gordonr, If there's nothing else I've learned during the course of my renovations, I've learned that everything ends up being more complicated than you expect. Once you open up the ceiling or the wall, there always seems to be something in the way of what you want to do. A floor joist where the tub drain needed to be, pipes where I wanted recessed lights to go, and now the recessed light over the tub is where it would make sense to run the duct. I can hardly wait to get to the kitchen renovation! I spoke with a rep in Miele's technical service group yesterday. Initially he was telling me he thought what I wanted to do entailed too long a stretch of duct - that it would reduce the performance of the dryer. I told him I expected that it would not be optimal performance, but what I was trying to determine was whether it would reduce it to the extent that a condenser dryer would have the same performance. He didn't seem to understand what I was getting at, so I gave an example: If the vented model has 15% better performance than the condenser model and the venting I'm doing reduces performance by 15%, then the condenser model would be generally equivalent, but if the vented dryer's performance is 50% greater, the same 15% reduction in performance would still mean the vented dryer was a better choice. I asked if he could give me any information about how much better the vented dryer's performance was than the condenser model and how much the venting I was considering would reduce the vented dryer's performance. At that point, he said he wanted to talk with one of the senior technical reps and put me on hold. When he came back, he told me that the dryer was rated for up to 60 feet (which I already knew) and that I should be fine with what I was planning on doing. He also told me that the sr. rep had indicated that having a condenser dryer in a closet could be problematic because it puts off a lot more heat than a vented dryer - you'd need a lot more air circulation into the closet with a condenser dryer. The closet I'll be putting the w/d into is 68" wide by 29" deep, so the extra heat and air circulation need may not have been as much of an issue for me as it might be for others with a more confined space. One learning that I took away from this: if you start to get the sense that the technical or customer service person you're talking to may not be as knowledgeable as you'd like, ask to talk with a senior rep. Like anywhere else, initial phone calls will be answered by more junior staff who will route the more complicated issues to more experienced staff. I've decided to go with a vented dryer, and now just need to decide between the Miele and the Asko. I'll let everyone know which one I end up with. Jan

@ czechchick2: Yeah, these washer/dryer combo units all use water to condense the steam during the drying cycle. Stand-alone units use air instead. @ vackeer: Well, it's nothing that you MUST do - it's like extra maintenance/care. Last time I did it was probably a year ago. Since then, the dryer has been run every week for, I guess, six hours. That's a lot of laundry. Considering this, there isn't really alot of build-up. The whole process of cleaning the dryer takes maybe an hour. Technically, dryer sheets should work even better in a condenser dryer as it constantly recirculates the scented air, rather than exhausting it and drawing in fresh air. I can't give you a real-life answer, though. I have never used Bounce or the like in our dryer as it's not sold over here. I could have it imported via eBay - but that'd cost me BIG bucks.

A condenser clothes dryer is a machine that looks just like a conventional tumble clothes dryer, but which does not require an external vent. For the user/owner, operation of both types of dryers is essentially the same - the difference is in the internal design. In a vented clothes dryer, air is drawn from the surrounding area (i.e. the laundry room), then heated and blown through the clothes as the drum tumbles them about. This hot air evaporates some of the water in the damp fabrics, and the resultant moisture-laden air is then exhausted through a vent duct to the outside. In a condenser dryer, there are two separate "loops". The inside "loop" of air is sealed from the outside environment - air from within the drum is heated, then blown through the tumbling clothes, then the moisture-laden air is passed through a heat exchanger, where the water recondenses. The same dry air is then reheated, where it is again blown through the drum and clothes, and the cycle begins again (this is a more-or-less continuous process). The outside "loop" in a condenser dryer consists of either air or water. Some condenser dryer models are air-cooled, and use the ambient room air as a heat sink, by blowing it across the outside of the heat exchanger. These dryers will tend to heat the indoor air in one's laundry room significantly. Note however that ONLY heat is released - all MOISTURE is contained within the unit. The condensed water can be either pumped away to a drain line (e.g. into a standpipe shared with the clothes washer) or stored in a container within the dryer to be emptied later (not all models offer both options). All standalone Euro condenser dryers are of this type, i.e. units from Miele, AEG, Bosch, Asko, Malber, and Eurotech. In "combo washer/dryers" (i.e. machines that can BOTH wash and dry the clothes), the ventless condenser system is also widely used, but in these cases the condensers are water-cooled. During a dry cycle, several gallons of cold water are used to condense the moisture evaporated from the clothes, which again is pumped away through the drain line. Most of the "combos" currently available in North America use this method - i.e. units from Equator, Splendide, Malber, Haier, Quietline, Thor, LG, and Eurotech. Note that unlike the air-cooled design, these models do NOT significantly heat the indoor air in one's laundry room - but on the other hand, the fact that they use extra water during the dry cycle must be taken into consideration, especially for anyone on a very limited (or expensive) water supply. Since air-cooled condenser dryers heat the indoor air, they're most suited for use in cold to moderate climates (it would be counterproductive to run what amounts to a space heater at the same time you're trying to cool the house with air conditioning). However, condenser dryers do have one big advantage - they don't exhaust any air to the outside. And hence, on very hot days, a condenser dryer may surprisingly be as good or even better than a vented dryer in overall energy terms - it heats the indoor air, but on the other hand it doesn't exhaust 200+ cubic feet of nicely HVAC-cooled indoor air to the outside per minute of operation! All else being equal (i.e. not including household heating/cooling issues), condenser dryers are slightly less efficient than their vented counterparts, typically on the order of ~15%. The real design intent of condenser dryers isn't improved efficiency, but the simple fact that they don't require a vent duct, permitting easy installation most anywhere (ideal for apartment dwellers, etc). With most current standalone condenser dryers, it is necessary to periodically clean the condenser unit - perhaps once a month or so, one needs to slide out the condenser module and wash off any accumulated lint. Thus condensers require a bit more "work" than vented dryers - although this may entail less actual effort than the recommended annual ductwork cleaning for vented dryers (which is very important for both performance and fire safety reasons!). Overall, if you have a very short run to the outside (e.g. your laundry room is located adjacent to an exterior wall, with a proper vent duct in place), it probably makes more sense to stick with a conventional vented dryer. But if you have a very long vent run (which will likely result in excessive drying times and inefficient operation, as well as being difficult to clean), a condenser dryer is a good option. Unfortunately, at the time of this writing, only compact-size Euro condenser dryers are available in North America... Of course, these comparisons are based on electric dryers - if you have a proper vent duct, gas dryers are almost always going to be much less expensive to operate than any sort of electric dryer, simply because gas is generally cheaper than electricity for the consumer. Finally, it should be pointed out that virtually all condenser dryers use simple heat exchangers as described above - NOT dehumidifier-style compressor-based heat pumps. Thus they're not overly complex, and are about as reliable as vented dryers - but not any more efficient either. There IS in fact a true heat pump dryer - the AEG Lavatherm WP - which is very energy-efficient, but it's not available in North America, and is extremely expensive (probably so much so that it wouldn't pay for itself in energy terms). --Tom. ------------------------------ [first added to Appliances FAQ: 4 October 2002] [moved to Laundry Room FAQ: 28 December 2004] [last edited: 28 December 2004]

You should either delete this thread or your other one. Regardless of which one you keep, we can only help you if you tell us what functionality you need, if you have any design/colour preferences and what your budget is. You might also post a second photo as it appears there is a window over your washer and dryer, which will need to be accounted for in any recommendations.