Thanks, everyone...we had fun making these "starlight" garden stakes...to answer your questions: We put $10 on them...don't know if that is too high or not...figure we have about $3 in them...so will see. FM was pretty slow (the first one yesterday of the season)...it was cold, windy & just not a nice day. We didn't sell any of these "starlighters" but we did sell a few recycled t.v. antenna "mini-deco bdhse" that my DH made from scrap wood & a broken tree branch (see below)...we'll try the "starlighters" a few more wks when more people come browsing You know, with HD TV and satellite dish, we no longer needed an antenna...so DH took it apart...cut some small logs off a branch & scraps for roof...I drilled a small hole & glued in a bit of pot liner stuff on front & glued pcs. tog....tah dah! (these sold at $4 ea) nana...the green fence stakes fit inside the white metal rails (each 5/8")...DH pounded them in a bit. concrete...for wood rails, my DH drills a hole & then adds a metal rod...that way, the wood rail is out of the dirt! Thanks, GJers, for your comments! Jeanne S.

Deciding when a tree can blow over if not staked requires some experience and judgment. My new house in Winchester is on 8 acres and I have planted about 125 trees. Not as many as it sounds like--there are lots of big open areas left. Anyway, I have staked only about 15 of these trees and have the one mistake I reported earlier. One test is to take the trunk in your hand after planting and give it a really good tug to simulate a wind stronger than you would expect. If the earth in the root ball does not bulge up and the trunk does not move so far to one side that it leaves a kind of open gap on the other side, there is no reason to stake. A very flexible trunk reduces the need to stake. I planted three 5 foot green giants last spring and the trunks were so flexible that most of the pressure was taken from the base of the trunk as it entered the root ball. When the strong winds came they bent way over, but there was no movement in the root ball or losseness at the base of the trunk. It would have been silly to waste time staking these guys. A lot of my trees have been two and three feet tall and did not need to be staked. I think I staked just about 4 of these small trees because there was no root ball to speak of and they were essentially bare root and would have worked themselves loose in the wind. As for the topic of this post here, the holly trees--my guess is that the trunks are fairly stiff, and the tops with their evergreen leaves will provide a kind of "sail" that will catch a lot of wind. And the trees are expensive and hard to find. I wouldn't dream of not staking these trees unless the root ball is really, really firm, and they are planted so the rootball is really anchored in the soil. Of course if they are planted in a place protected from the wind the risk is much less. My place here is like a wind tunnel. From the end of October to the middle of May there is a really high probability of wind gusts in excess of 60 mph, and I want to plan for at least 75. (I may seem to be exaggerating, but in the last two years three houses within a mile of here have had their siding stripped off by these winter winds--but that's another story.) And then of course there are summer thunderstorms and straight-line microbursts filled with rain that can put a tremendous force on the top of a little newly planted tree. Yeah, maybe those storms don't hit every year, but as soon as you have $3,000 invested in some really special trees you can bet one will hit. So I make my decisions to stake with that in mind. With these hollies, I would keep them staked until about August 20 of next year after the worst of the thunderstorm/microburst season is over and the roots have had a chance to grow into the soil surrounding the original root ball. --Spruce

This Forum is primarily for IDing sources for heirloom flowers and veggies, etc., and not for culture, growing methods, etc., which occurs in the Forums devoted to them. Is what I wrote above and in no way was I being mean or nasty or contrary, as has been suggested, but not in so many words. I was making a suggestion that I thought would give maximum input to the poster, which I see as being paramount. Those of you who know me know that I spend untold hours answering questions in the tomato forum as well as here and almost alone I answer the disease questions in the tomato pest and disease forum. When I first got to GW I too came here to this Forum since my major interest was heirloom veggies. But when I came here I looked at the kind of threads being posted and saw that none were about culture of heirlooms. I was also told that culture questions were handled in the various forums and I found that to be true. Yes, for discussion of heirloom plants as cited above, as in where can I find seeds for this or that variety, or where can I find plants of this or that Dianthus or whatever. And since I knew there were several threads about staking/supporting tomatoes already in the tomato forum I thought, and still think, it was the place to refer someone to before those threads scrolled off. Any person posting deserves to get the most input possible about questions, and many more toamto growers post in the tomato forum than read/post here, for over time, and before I came to GW, heirloom tomatoes, and now I mean ALL aspects, have been discussed in the main Forum. And maximum input means that when someone e-mails me directly for information I ask them to post publically. That's b/c GW is a public message forum and all questions and answers should be posted publically. No one person knows everything, so the goal is to get as many responses/thread as possible. I haven't felt very good reading the criticism that some of you have directed my way, but so be it. plsgorw, it seems to me I've answered some stuff for you in the Tomato Forum already, or perhaps you did e-mail me at home and I suggested you post publically for greater input. Yes? And I will continue to help you and other folks as I already have when I feel I have something to add that hasn't been already said. After posting here at GW for several years I've been able to transmit a lot of what I know about heirloom tomatoes and I see that others to whom I passed on that info are now using it in answering others. And that's the way it should be. So each year now, I expect to post less and less and let information be continued to be passed on. if growing about 2000 varieties of heirloom tomatoes has taught me anything, it's taught me that the best thing I can do with that info is to continue with my SSE membership to distribute new varieties, I don't know if I'll continue with my seed distributions here at GW where I've already distributed over 300 varieties, and most importantly, to pass along information on all aspects of tomatoes that I've learned from my research and my growing of them. Carolyn, who has been growing tomatoes for about 55 years, was raised on a farm and still grows the majority of her tomatoes by sprawling except when she's waiting for a quad muscle tear to heal and expecting a hip replacement will be necessary for her to walk again. And I'm waiting now and going on month six in the walker with possible surgery in the Fall.

I garden about 1 mile from the Ohio River with zero hills between it and me. So we get big winds but not tornado strength. I walked next door and looked at my neighbors garden at least ten times last yr where he had 175 plants. I also saw his other patch where he has 200 or more. I don't remember seeing any thet were down even tho we had a very very wet summer. He uses five and a half ft stakes. He had one helper last yr so I figure in about three days he staked 150 himself and he is 75 yrs young. I buy 6ft pre-sharpened stakes at the local Southern States for a dollar ea. I store approx. one hundred in a small utility buildind with room left over. Cages are not an option for me.