To be able to grow all 12 classes you'd hafta move to NeverLand! But I'm happy to imagine what I would grow there. I'm lucky to have moved a lot-- grew the once-bloomers up in SE Ohio, at least 3 from each class. More recently in Texas and now in Virginia I'm planting Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes. After much deliberation, and subject to revision: 1. Albas:Great Maiden's Blush--the best shrub among the Albas, makes a graceful bush and the pink of the blooms against the blue-green of the foliage is heart-stopping. 2. Bourbon: Maggie, a big girl with big color & fragrance (but I haven't grown Mystic Beauty or SDLM or SDSA yet) 3. Centifolia: Fantin Latour--may be the most beautiful of all the old roses. Really. 4. China: Martha Gonzales -- on sheer performance 5. Damask: La Ville de Bruxelle 6. Gallica: Rosa Mundi (r. gallica versicolor) 7. HP: Reine de Violettes 8. Moss: Mme. Louis Leveque 9. Noisette: they're all tied in 1st place Polyantha: Perle d'Or Portland: Comte de Chambord Tea; Archiduc Joseph (ARE's Monsieur Tillier)

O.G.R.E.S. is the Orchid Growers Rating and Evaluation System. It is a website devoted to listing and rating orchid sources. It lists the over all ratings, how many people have rated it, the website (if any) and links directly to the company. Ebay sellers are also included. While the system has problems, you can "flame" a grower by posting many of the same complaints, and often people don't post when they have a good experience only with a bad one, it is a place to start and gives links to many growers. Unfortunately, as of 2005, OGRES has been discontinued...I do not know if it is going to be put back up, but I am keeping this here in the event that it does resurface.

Thanks all! eramus from your list I have killed Mme Antoine Mari (2), Mrs B R Cant, Mme Lombard, Mme Berkeley, Comtesse du Cayla, Le Vesuve and Lady Hillingdon (2). Plus at least a dozen more. My house is in the middle of a field with long sweeps of clear land for cold wind to cross--I have to find things for areas other than the very limited warm spots I have. I know there are other OGR that will work here, but I was hoping to narrow down a class or two that might be know for blackspot resistance (as teas and chinas are) instead of randomly trying to pick roses from the fifty billion available. Or at least get some guidance as to what class is most likely to be a blackspot disaster so to avoid. I'm just looking to narrow down the options! My Madame Hardy sported the best example of Damasks crud I have ever seen--and HMF lists it as "very disease resistant." The two Hybrid Perpetuals Baronne Prevost and Jacques Cartier (HMF "very disease resistant") so totally defoliated that they were unable to build any size and languished. After 3 years I shovel pruned them--its one thing to languish WITH leaves but most of the late spring and summer they were literally sticks and any new growth was totally infected in a couple weeks. Are those examples consistent with what other people see of Damask and HP classes in high blackspot pressure areas? I have Darlow's Egnima on the way to try a Hybrid Musk. Any others I should try? I have Paul Barden's modern Gallica (hybrid) Marianne so that might be an area to try. I will order Chas. de Mille! Barden's website mentioned that Bourbons are not very BS resistant--is this what people typically see of Bourbons in the southeast? Ann, I'm curious as to what "real Noisettes" are working for you. I have one, Pleasant Hill Cemetery, that gets cold damage--sudden cane death--on several of it's canes each spring, but still throws out a bunch of basals to replace them although it does not climb and has stayed a scraggly 4x4 shrub. (I'll give it away if anyone local wants it who might be a tad warmer.) All the Tea Noisettes that I've tried, except Reve D'or have failed. (And she got a bit wacked in our late freeze, so the verdict is still out.)

About not watering established roses, I'm glad others have come in with their comments. I agree that it depends on one's annual rainfall, and also soil has something to do with it: our clay soil holds water, but very sandy soils, or shallow soils, might be less forgiving. Librarian_gardener, I lived for years in Olympia, Washington and grew roses there. I learned about the PNW climate, summer droughts (new to me: I'm from Florida, land of summer thunderstorms), and watering restrictions, and that was when I began to experiment with not watering roses or other garden plants, and learned how drought tolerant they are. Roses, and a great many shrubs, trees, and perennials can perfectly well handle a two month drought; they'll stop flowering, they won't grow much, but they'll be fine. They can take a lot more drought than that. Back in 2016-17 here in Italy we went a full year with drastically low precipitation and very high summer temperatures. Our entire province actually ran out of water, which had to be brought in by truck from a reservoir on the other side of the Apennines. Result in the garden? Everything lived; the plants didn't even look that woeful, all things considered. When I moved to Italy in 2000 I had my Pacific Northwest experience of summer drought in mind when I started gardening here. I knew I wanted a garden that didn't require irrigation after the first year. I knew from my experiences in Washington that water isn't an infinite resource, and I believed it would be irresponsible to lavish water on a garden when thousands or millions of people depend on that same water supply for drinking, cooking, and bathing. I believed I could have my cake and eat it as well: that I could have a great garden and yet not draw heavily on a precious necessity. I was right. There are limits I have to accept. My repeat blooming roses' reflowering depends on the weather: if it doesn't rain, they don't bloom. Plant growth is slow, as we seldom have sun and water at the same time; on the other hand, the plants are sturdy. I choose plants that are adapted to the Mediterranean climate pattern of chilly wet winters and hot dry summers: fortunately, a large portion of classic garden plants are of Mediterranean or continental origin and thrive in these conditions. Right now we're two months and counting in a highly unseasonal late winter-early spring drought. The roses and other plants don't mind: they're leafing out like mad. With climate change I consider our area at relatively high risk. Summer water here is from groundwater stored from winter precipitation, as the Apennines have no year-round snow pack. I do what I can to make my garden as drought-resilient as possible, as I suspect we have more lengthy droughts in our future. @Kitty, thanks!