Thank you both Ken and Terry. I think you both have a valid point of view and I do like options and that is why I post....to get as many as possible. Ken...I would be someone who would struggle a little too long trying to cope with a problem rather than just giving up on it and replacing it, so I do appreciate your direct approach. On the other hand...as I said in my original post, it is working well in many respects. We have a difficult site to garden in. A small 1/4 acre lot, surrounded with not one, but four mature Silver Maples in neighboring yards, one of which was planted in 1950 and is massive and only about 6ft from our fence. A second one is within a foot of our fenceline. We also have a neighbor who planted not one, but 'seven' spruce trees within a foot of our fence with a London Plane Tree growing up behind those about another 8 feet away. Plus one Norway Maple in the corner of our property. This is all surrounding just the back yard, not the whole lot. [g] Deep shade in the corners and full shade in portions of the back lot line and part shade in other areas. Dry for the most part. We've planted this Cornus just under the canopy of the massive Silver Maple to see if we could find something that would grow there. We were afraid nothing would be vigorous, so we are happy with that aspect of it. It also has a very attractive presentation with the horizontal aspect of the branch structure. It is filling in an area that badly needed to be screened where little would probably grow. So it is performing. The only problem is with the suckering. I have no idea what I could replace it with, that would do the job, so it would really have to become a real nuisance for me to want to remove it. I can give it room to do it's own thing in the back of it. It has space to stretch out toward the tree and the fence. I did plant shrubs on one side of it, that if it keeps spreading out, it will run into. A Viburnum carlesii which is outside of the canopy of the tree about 6ft to the left of the Cornus and in part sun. It is proving to also be very happy there, with some attention to making sure it gets enough water. This year has been easy to do that. I have perennials...ferns and hostas, etc. on the other side where it is shadier which are doing fairly well, considering. So those won't be too difficult to move if necessary. There is grass about 5 feet in front of it, and I am wondering if it will sucker into the grass? I do want it to grow and allowed for about a 10x10 ft shrub and could give it a few more feet than that moving some neighbors, which I expected to do eventually, just not so soon...lol. I do want to keep the size under some control. Especially if it might get a lot bigger than the 10x10 I planned for. I am very unhappy to hear yours is suckering that far from the trunk, christie. I wouldn't mind needing to snip off the suckers but personally, I wouldn't use a chemical product. My question is, does snipping off the suckers actually provoke the shrub to put more effort into pushing out more and further from the shrub? Another thought is, could you just circle the shrub with a shovel once in awhile to keep the rootball within a certain area? Thanks...pm2

Both have to be a suckering type. Many lilacs are now sold that do not sucker and there is not much you can do to make them do so. The common lilac types will sucker with impunity and there would be no need to remove the grass/sod. Do you know what kind of roses and lilacs you have? I would not use a vegetation killer so close to the shrubs. Too much chance of injury to the 'good guys'. Could try digging out the sod around them, replacing the sod with a good soil and then mulch lightly with grass clippings or whatever you happen to have. If the lilacs are not the suckering kind, try to propogate them by bending a lower branch down and anchoring it firmly in the soil. Water it occasionally. It will root and next year you can separate it from the main plant. Jan

Thanks for the additional photos. But you still haven't answered my suggestion that you check additional ID-clues. For example, "petal-count-average" is a very important ID-clue. (To get a rose's P-C-A, count every petal from five blooms, then divide that total number by five.) I see the reverse-side of your rose's petals is distinctly a lighter color than their "main" side. That's an extremely important ID-clue. I grow another rose which sometimes looks like your bloom-photo ...and it has lighter petal-reverse. It's Octoberfest. But that rose doesn't grow even close to 12 feet tall. Plus, the ARS says Octoberfest's petal-count-average is 17-25 petals ...and your rose clearly has way more petals than that. Here is the description of Folklore in the 2006 Edmunds Roses catalog: "Folklore - hybrid tea - petals 40-45. Slow pening, high-centered form of warm salmon with a rich golden-orange reverse. The tall, slightly spreading vase shaped plants bear long stems covered with reddish tinted waxy [meaning semi-glossy] foliage that is extremely disease resistant. Every year several of our customers report a Climbing sport, but this isn't true - it's the nature of the beast [...]" The customers' reports that their Folklore bush has produced a "climbing sport" seems to match up with your "fast-growing, 12-foot tall" report about your rose. So until you give us several additional ID-characteristics about your rose, I'll have to stick with my PRELIMINARY guess of Folklore. (HMF says its petal-count-average is 44, Edmunds says 40-45). Regards, JohnReb

I just severe the little plant from the mother plant by cutting down between it and the main plant...dig and pot up. I pot them because it is easier to keep them in shade and humidity up while in a pot. Otherwise, wait until winter and you can just dig and move to new location. You probably could get by with a direct relocation if you are willing to cut back the top by about half and provide some shade. They are pretty tough customers.