A living will?

Power of Attorney - for each of you - one POA for financial and one for medical. Having been through this with my great aunt it saves on the hassle of going through court for family needing to make decisions in the unlikely event you cannot make these decisions for yourself. Also, you should update/review these whenever situations change.

If the recommended attorney is skilled in estate planning and management, you should come away from your first meeting feeling confident that your affairs, and exactly how you want them handled, can and will be put in order.

I am thinking, though, as you mentioned your executor/trustee will not be a family member - inquire about a disincentive or disinheritance clause in both the will and/or trust to keep a beneficiary (or just someone coming out of the woodwork) from contesting your documents or choices you've made. You may think it a remote possibility, but it does happen. And as for disposition of specific household goods/possessions to a specific beneficiary, there is a document page for these types of items to be listed. Attaching a photograph, or complete description, to the documents is also a good idea. Actually giving these things away at some future date, taking them out of the category of worldly goods would be the best way to having them being dispersed as you wish. And despite the sentiment attached to family pieces, it could happen that the beneficiary doesn't want, can't use, or need them. I reached the point where this household could no longer be the repository of one more set of silverware, good china, furniture, etc.

In the last handful of years, my brother and I've had experience with four estates of deceased elderly relatives - one leaving a mess as good planning backed up by legal documents was beyond her interest or grasp and the second, third, and fourth wrapped up with a brief meeting with the lawyers who had drawn up the original documents.

My parents each established self directed Revocable Living Trusts naming each other as "Attorney in Fact" and my brother as "Successor Trustee". Being self directed, as long as they were able and interested they could buy and sell assets, wheel and deal, give $12k away annually to any number of recipients, earn money or lose money as they saw fit. And each trust had an unrecorded warranty deed for the paid for house.

My father predeceased and his trust was retitled as a Family Trust with my brother as trustee. This was not dissolved and plowed into my mother's trust to avoid the prospect of estate taxes down the line, but she was nonetheless free to use the Family Trust principle, interest, dividends, etc. as she saw fit and for her maintenance. When my mother died, the Family Trust was dissolved along with her own trust and the assets distributed between my brother and myself. Mother's unrecorded waranty deed for the house got sent to the court house and recorded in my name.

It was all so easy to take care of with a good lawyer and carefully thought out and executed documents. It was more expensive than simply having a will, health directives, Powers of Attorney, etc., but some things are worth the money paid. And they're not chisled in stone; as situations change, the documents can be changed.

An afterthought - my inclination would not be to name a financial institution as successor/trustee unless, of course, it was necessary because of no other option. An annual maintenance fee of 1 or 2% doesn't sound like much, but depending on the size of the estate, it can add up to quite a sum eating away into interest, dividends, and even principle.

Sorry to be so windy - I've got an appointment to establish my own self directed Revocable Living Trust coming up. Have no children, also, or any other particularly unusual circumstance that I can think of though.

Thank you all. And yes, we will do medical POAs at that time.

Duluth, your post was so insightful and exactly the type of thing I was looking for. DH has a dozen siblings, and we wouldn't want someone unexpectedly showing up with an outstretched hand. Good idea, too, about passing the assets on early to someone or at least inquiring if they think they will want them someday.

And no, we don't want to pay a financial institution (or an attorney) a wad just to carry out our wishes. The two I mentioned that aren't family members are simply friends of ours (but not a "couple"), and we'd obviously want to compensate them.

I appreciate the ideas! Keep them coming!

:-)

McCloud and I need to be doing the very thing you and Burlie are doing Rita. We've put it off waaaay too long as it is. We've bought Will "kits" that sit in drawers not being filled out. We've book marked various Will Planning websites that we never sit down and look over. We have a good friend who is a retired attorney and has offered to help us draw something up and here we sit. I don't know why we can't seem to make time for this. It is so very important.

One reason I would like to get things covered is because DSD has her mother living with her as we speak and we want to be assured that ex doesn't benefit one iota from our passing if we were to exit first. We're thinking a trust held for DSD until the passing of her mother. But, we need to get all of this in writing.

I'm very proud that you two are 'getting 'er done'. We're going to use you as an inspiration to do the same. I'll keep my eye on this thread. Good luck to you both getting things all wrapped up for the future.

I'll make another suggesion that may not effect you, as I live in Canada.

A few years ago an elderly aunt passed away, but 2 of the people she left money to, had pedeceased her.

Although we all knew that it would have been her wish that the childen of these two, receive their parents share, the law said it had to go back into the estate and was therefore divided amongst the other living beneficiaries.

This disturbed me greatly.

In my own will, I have stated if any of my beneficiaries predecease me, who I want to receive their share.

This particular lawyer was very upset, as well, and now is being sure that there is this extra clause inserted.

People seem to hate to do these things but it is wonderful assurance that things will be handled the way you want.

ivamae

Pretty much the same here in the States, ivamae.

The clause wouldn't be boilerplate, but you would add that whatever is left of the estate after final expenses are paid is to be "distributed to those of my beneficiaries who survive me per stirpes." Lawyers can explain it all very easily and how it keeps a deceased person's share from going back into the estate.

"Per stirpes" is the method for distributing the estate of a deceased individual who also might have a deceased beneficiary or beneficiaries, like ivamae's Aunt. Happens fairly frequently when papers aren't updated. Per stirpes (Latin for "per branch") specifies that each branch of the deceased person's deceased beneficiaries receives an equal share of the estate, regardless of how many people are in that branch.

I've thought about that scenario, ivamae, but thank you for bringing it up to remind me. DH may want to leave something to his siblings but not necessarily to their offspring - so I am hoping we can specify that either "yes, it's OK" or "no, dump the money back into the estate." (Obviously, that isn't written in legal-eze!! LOL!)

summer, ya'll just get your butts in gear! We've talked about this for 15 years (as I said, it's always after attending a funeral *sigh*). After DHs brother's funeral a few weeks ago, I asked on the drive home, "If I make the appointment, can you be there?" That was all it took. Neither of us can procrastinate any longer! And I know we'll be so glad when it is done.

BTW, summer, I am leaving you my five (outdoor) cats. They will like winters there better than here, I'm sure.
:-)

I'm going to shamelessly bump my own post in case anyone who didn't check in over the weekend has something to contribute.

Thanks again for all of the great posts so far.

I have to put my 2 cents in here about getting a will. Everyone should have one, plus a living, and property whatever it's called. My younger sister died last month without a will or anything, she and he husband thought they were to young before and were talking about getting one. She was 52! I have a trust,will,living, and property. I have also talked with those that are named in the living and property so they really know my wishes.

One more thing to consider. It's a good idea to have some accounts that are POD (payable on death) to someone you expect to outlive you, who you can trust, and who will be responsible for your affairs. That money goes directly to the beneficiary, bypassing the estate, and can be cashed in immediately after death. That way, if there is anything that needs to be taken care of, the money is there and available as needed.

Remember, that it takes time to get the deceased's money transferred into an estate account (in my state, you can't even apply for probate for 11 days after a death), so you do need to have some ready cash for a number of things--deposite for the funeral director, money for opening the grave, etc.--so if there are some POD accounts, it makes things a lot easier, if those making the arrangements don't have enough spare cash to front those bills while waiting for the estate money to be cleared for use. My mom just died on Thanksgiving, I'm her executrix, and I'm speaking from experience, here. Just be sure that your survivors won't be placed in a position of hardship, because they have to take care of your affairs.

DH and I had our wills drawn up after our first daughter was born. Another DD followed which was provided for in our wills.

Now we're raising our GD and our wills need to definitely be updated. It doesn't seem as easy to get there now to make those changes but we need to do that also.

I just want to add that "there's lawyers and there's lawyers." Because of my DH's illness, I've had more than one will drawn up over the years. They can get remarkably expensive!

As Duluthinbloomz (and possibly others) mentioned, some lawyers specialize in estate planning. I would ask around and find a good one of those. And as I always say in regard to dentists, go for a good track record rather than charm. :-)

I'd like to mention (although it's obvious) that you don't have to divide your estate up evenly among your family members. This really came into play for our living trust. I have many siblings, but one I haven't seen in 40 years and another I haven't seen in at least 25 years. I see no reason to include them in my will just because they are related to me. We have also designated who is "second in line" if one of our beneficiaries dies.

Also, you can set it up so that the beneficiaries get their share over a number of years. For example, we are letting some beneficiaries get their portion in one lump sum, but others will get only 1/3, then another 1/3 five years later, and the final 1/3 five years after that.

We have named our financial institution as trustee, but we were already paying them a fee to manage our assets. (I don't know if we pay an additional fee for this service.) We certainly didn't want DH's parents to be in control (my mother is deceased, my father is very old), nor any of our siblings. And we also have that clause that duluthinbloomz mentioned, so if anyone contests the will or complains about their share, they get nothing.

Glad you bumped, this is an interesting topic.

For the sake of discussion, we probably should have conceded up front that although Trusts are excellent vehicles, they're not for everyone. A Trust does eliminate probate which is often the cog in the wheel that can result in wishes not being followed as intended. A will, POAs, end of life directives, DNRs, no CPR,s, where to find important papers, safe deposit box keys etc. all help those left behind accomplish the difficult tasks a death can make.

My condolences to everyone who has recently suffered losses; my mother just died this past September, as well.

Accounts with POD might seem like a good idea, but consider the fact that, let's say, X has assets with PODs. If X should die, those assets are now the property of the person who has been designated to be paid on death - this person has absolutely no obligation to use those assets to pay for the deceased person's funeral expenses, outstanding bills, etc. One might feel there's a moral obligation, but there is no legal one. A much better solution is to have a joint checking account or simply have a name added to the checking account - son, daughter, grandchild - so that person has access to funds for helping with routine bill paying and expenses. An alternative to that is granting power of attorney.

This is part of one scenario we experienced with the elderly relative who left a mess to contend with. Fortunately, as she declined, she granted me her financial power of attorney with broad sweeping powers and part of those sweeping powers was that I did not need to make any kind of accounting to anyone as to how I handled her financial affairs. She trusted me to "do the right thing" and I value the trust of others, so I naturally did. Her outdated will dictated her estate was to be divided equally among her surviving siblings, but over the years she kind of lost track of keeping things equal and purchased assets and CDs, etc. all in unequal amounts and all carrying a variety of PODs for her intended beneficiaries. Seeing what was going to happen down the line in making an equal division of assets an accounting nightmare, I spent a lot of hours going from bank to bank (she had accounts in, I think, eleven banks here in MN and a short hop across the bridge in Wisc.) transferring all the CDs, etc. back to her name only. Then on her death, most of her assets could easily be divided from one pool. It took almost two years to settle that estate and send out the last of the checks to beneficiaries.

One other thing I found while doing some reading. If someone (an estranged child, sibling, someone who would normally be thought of as participating as a beneficiary of an estate) is to inherit nothing, it's best to state it in the documents(ie. "And to my________, I leave nothing") so it is known that your failure to leave a bequest was deliberate and not an unintentional oversight. This would leave any challenge to a Trust (challenging a Trust is extremely difficult) being dissolved or a will (easier to challenge) going through probate without merit.

Duluth in bloom--a couple of things to remember, though. A POA dies with the person, so is only able to be used while they are alive. And it's illegal to write checks on a joint account if one of the account holders is dead. I know--I JUST asked that question at the bank one week ago. So those 2 scenarios you suggested are actually illegal once the person dies. Sorry.

As I said--the POD should be used ONLY if the recipient is the kind of person who is honest, knows the person's wishes and will do the right thing. But it is one way to assure that there will be funds available immediately, if needed.

More good advice. Thank you all!

After 20 years, DH and I still maintain individual bank accounts. I have my own checking, savings - and so does he. We are on each other's accounts just in case, though. At least I think I'm on all of his accounts!! *grin*

There's a big difference in estates being held in Trust and those going through probate. If there's no will or the will is being probated, yes, assets can be frozen waiting for the estate account to be funded.

A financial POA does indeed expire with death and I was aware that my legal ability to conduct financial duties ended with this aunt's death so none were conducted. No running afoul of the legal system here. On death the executor/trix of the estate with all the granted powers took over, set up an estate account and handled things according to whatever timeline was required or expedient.

My name was on my mother's checking account and I did not have or need her financial POA. After her death, I was still legally able to write checks on that account, legally able to close out the account, and legally able to transfer the balance to my own account because it was never subject to being frozen and required only walking into the bank and producing a death certificate.