As a condo owner you have a right to know what the duties and limitations of the HOA members, including the president, are. Is anything written about it in your bylaws? If not, bring the issue to the board in writing and insist on a response. You might ask other neighbors to join you. Over the years we've worked to refine the bylaws in my HOA to cover such issues.

Depends on your HOA.

Our president could not do what you mentioned.... can't even go on the property (unless visiting of course!), yet alone remove landscaping.

I don't have an HOA but I work with one for my boss' second home in Miami and can tell you that even tho this is an extremely controlling group they cannot do so. They must have written permission to enter anyone's home during their absence or the homeowner must grant entrance before anything can be done, unless it is an emergency.

Lynn that is what my research said. In this HOA they do not have a right to come into the homes, we are not condos. They are suppose to paint the outside of our homes out of our funds. The prez. said it will cost almost a half million dollars to paint the 98 homes and we only have $40,000. A special assessment will put on us for money to pay for it. I was told it will cost between $3,500 to $5,000.. I have an attorney's name that works with HOAs and am going to take my copy of the covenants to him to read and tell me what is legal and what is not. I know for sure a contract, no matter if you sign it or not is legal if it doesn't comply with city and state laws. A former board member told me he quit because they are breaking state laws. I can't believe I would have to pay the assessment without being able to interview and bargain for the cost of the job.

Vala: Regarding the roses, was he taking them for his own use, or was he pruning/deadheading or whatever the term is for getting them ready for the next season? Was he uprooting the bush to replant on his own property? I'd look into that and if the latter turns out to be the case, I'd send a letter to the owners -- even if they're not in the immediate area anymore (the P.O. will forward the letter), I'm sure they'd be interested to know that this guy is stealing from them and affecting the curb appeal to a potential buyer.

About the painting: HOA groups typically send out documents at least once a year itemizing revenue and expenses, including noting how much it has in reserves. I just got one this past week, in fact. What does the "we only have $40,000" refer to: the painting budget or the entire HOA reserves?

This is the first issue. It's imperative that the HOA general reserve meets a certain amount, usually set by the state. You should research all you can to make sure the general reserve is flush enough--it could come back to bite all the homeowners should a big lawsuit or property damage arise (like a big water pipe in the common areas burst). I can't imagine that the general reserve is as low as $40K, but you never know -- there was a situation in my neck of the woods in which the hired HOA management was pilfering a huge amount of money. That, naturally, affected the ability to sell; through "due diligence," prospective buyers saw that the complex was not financially stable-- meaning special assessments were likely to happen, frequently and at rising costs.

Unfortunately, but also with good reason, HOAs can issue special asssessments, but I believe it's by a vote of all HOA members. Not just the board members, but all homeowners as well. We had a special assessment a couple of years ago after a harsh winter. There needed to be extra manhours by the landscaping company to clean up and repair as well as to cover extra plowing.

But you need to review your HOA docs to make sure of what those rules are. I think that there are some HOA boards that have the power to make special assessment decisions on their own, without homeowners' consent. My HOA just raised the "normal" 4-times-a-year assessment, and that was the board's vote, I had no input on that.

So I could vote on the special assessment, but unless I was on the grounds committee or the HOA board itself, we don't have the ability to say "I want to interview the companies and help guide the price negotiations." Think of how that would go: 98 families all wanting to have a role in negotiations.

Also, if you are paying the HOA to take care of some exterior maintenance -- like painting and roofing, too, perhaps?-- then it sounds as if you have given all major exterior responsibility over to the HOA board. Basically it hinges on the definition of how you own your property. Look at the original seller's sheet for the property (the MLS listing when you bought it) and find out what the ownership type was listed as. If they are responsible for painting exteriors, it appears that they own all of the exteriors and have the right to make the decisions for you.

This is "Fee Simple" ownership versus "Condominium" ownership. The latter can apply to properties that aren't even what you consider to be condos -- they can look like townhouses and duplexes as well.

Just give the HOA docs a thorough read before you spend money on the attorney. Much of it isn't legalese. Save the money until you narrow down the suspicious-to-you or confusing legal parts, and then go to the att'y. My HOA docs are in a binder one-inch thick. Asking an att'y to read the entire thing to outline all the "what the HOA can do" versus "what the HOA cannot do" will cost you a pretty penny.

Many townhouse developments have fee simple deeds, with HOAs. Typically, the HOA can place rules and regulations regarding the outside of your home, but cannot enter the building. Since you own the property the house sits on, you are responsible for costs on changes done to the inside or outside, including.
BUT, the HOA can vote to pay a contractor a blanket fee for things like lawn care, snow plowing, trash removal...and even exterior painting, with costs for recurring events being included in the HOA dues or an assessment for rare events, like painting, new roofs, etc.
The advantage for the homeowners is that a blanket contract for ordinary services is less expensive than each homeowner contracting multiple contractors for individual contracts.

HOAs for fee simple developments may also have, in the agreement, the right to force outside work on a home that is deemed unsightly, and after due notice to the homeowner - the HOA may contract to make the repairs and bill the homeowner.

You should have been given a copy of the agreements when you purchased the home, and if you didn't understand it - have taken it to a lawyer to explain them to you.

I had a house that was fee-simple with an HOA. As one of the original buyers in the new development, I was instrumental in not only forming the HOA, but I served on the board for a few years. But, when I left the board, I had several run-ins with a couple of control freaks on the board. One event even went to the point of bringing township board member and police. The board member had moved a "no parking from here to corner" sign. Then, she moved a US Post Office collection box(the big blue ones) across the street.

I eventually sold when DH and I were married.

It would be hard for me to deal with most HOA, but then I do see some good points and bad in them.

When I bought the house I only read the restrictions and I was pleased with them. Most legal papers are hard to understand. Our covenant document is only a quarter inch thick. So it wouldn't take long for a lawyer to read. Most lawyers here will counsel with you free the first timeand answer basic questions. I will do that first.

About the roses, He was going to take them out until I told him he didn't have a right to do that without permission. He ended up just trimming the two that was still in the ground. He said they were diseased. I called the owner's son and he said they were not, he checked them every week or so.

The $40,000. is the entire amount of our funds. It is not much because our payments are lower than most HOAs. The expenses use up our dues, so we are not saving anything. The builder was the one responsible for the conventants and it benefited him to put in that the HOA would take care of the roof and outside of the house. After the elected officers took over they changed the roofing clause because we would have had to give them a copy of our insurance policies and they would have had to hire someone to look at 98 policies. I suggested they do the same with the outside painting, but they wont do it.

We don't have any say over anything. We vote on officers, but no one wants the job so the same pres and vice keep their jobs until they die. We do have a new board member or two every election because most people can't work with people who don't obey the laws of the covenants and the city and state. We have to take care of weeding in the back yards flower beds that we had put in, but the owners who live in the circle are friends with the prez and they get their back yard beds weeded free. Of course we end up paying for it out of the funds. They call it maintenance in yearly statement and lie about it when confronted. It would not do any good for anyone to write a letter because the board members know what is going on. Even if I went to a board meeting the majority of the members side with the prez and vice. Over half of the residents are single women who don't want to worry about the politics as long as their grass is mowed and the snow is removed. It is really complicated situation, a good old boy situation. They are ruining our driveways by leaving fertilizer on our driveways, they are already flaking.

Vala, do see an attorney, find out what your rights are. You may be able to bring a suit against the Pres and VP personally along with the association. Are there other homeowners that feel the same way?

I was President of a townhouse community HOA for 6 years, and was a Board Member an additional 2 years. You have been given very good advice--particularly by pammyfay. Read the documents yourself, and then, if you still have questions, you could consult an attorney. But beware--the association will almost certainly win, so why make enemies unless absolutely necessary.

On one occasion, we removed weeds (at least 3' tall) from someone's yard...after numerous verbal and written attempts to get them to clean up the yard. They decided to fight. They lost and had to pay attorney fees for themselves and for the HOA. The laws are skewed to favor the HOA.

As much as you may hate the covenants and restrictions, they are there to protect the community and property values. You would be surprised what people would do without them in place. Good luck!

I like the restrictions, that is one of the reasons I chose this house. What I don't like is the good ole boy politics, some get free service, others have to pay, they say I will spray your property for bugs, just don't tell anyone or don't call the management company we will take care of it. If I put a tree ring around my tree I have to get permission. What I want to know from the lawyer is can they come over and change something on my property without my permission. My research tells me no, but I want confirmation. They are grown men, but they rant and rave like grade school kids and they lie to us. The vice pres said "if the pres quits, I quit". Childish both of them.

I sure wouldn't count on that lawyer's visit to be FREE. That is for an injury case where there's gonna be money in it for them.

When my husband was president of a condo association from 2002-2006 in Florida, a special assessment was always levied by the association's Board of Directors. NO owners vote. We now live in a different condo, and it is the same. They just TELL us (by mail, of course) that an assessment has been passed. Leaving some thngs up to a vote would be a disaster in many cases. Lots of people could care less if the buildings get painted, etc.

Every lawyer I have seen in this city has done first visit free and I only hired one of them.

We've lived in several communities with HOA's. Sounds to me like they're overstepping their boundaries. Sounds more like the Gestapo than an HOA. An HOA is suppose to be there to protect the community. If a house is in disrepair they must first send a letter to the owner, and if the owner doesn't do anything about it, the HOA can then take them to court to force the issue. The $40,000 should be for court fees, not painting.

Six year old Gestapos. I told the garage door installer if someone came up to him and started telling him to stop work send him to me. The work wasn't scheduled until after tomorrow but they had a slot opened up. The president wasn't expecting it to be done this early so he probably wasn't on the look out. Of course he may be intimidated by me, I mentioned law suit one day. All the home owners are responsible owners, no visual problems anywhere. We got a very nasty newsletter last month telling us "if you can't live by the rules to get out". One owner is doing just that. Put her home up for sale and it was sold in 3 days.

Sound like someone threating you, just document things and keep at it, polite, but firm. Yes, look around and do get some legal advice.

First and foremost, although some on this forum are attorneys, none of them have read Vala's CC&Rs, so no one here is qualified to tell her what rights the HOA has or doesn't have. It all depends on what's in the CC&Rs.

Vala is correct when she says that many attorneys will do an initial consultation at no charge. They generally only allow 30 minutes, at most one hour, so you need to be well prepared in advance. Have your questions written down so you don't forget them. Have a pad of paper and pen/pencil so you can take notes.

I have a list and will have my covenants with me. From my research I don't think anyone can come on my property and change anything without my permission or a court order. I just want that confirmed and possibly a letter stating that.

I will pay to get the covenants read by a lawyer and get his opinion on what part is illegal if any is. I want to be prepared if I ever have a confrontation with the pres.

I also need to discuss the special assessments. I would be willing to bet the president and vice president will work a deal with a contractor so their houses are painted free.

Homeowners' Associations can vary widely in what they can and cannot control. The first house that Hubs and I owned together was a single-family detached home (3Br/2Ba) in Lake Forest, CA, with an HOA. The dues were $9 per month. The only thing the HOA took care of was all of the greenbelt areas, and the more-than-100-year-old eucalyptus trees growing in some of the greenbelt areas. Each homeowner was responsible for their own landscaping, landscape maintenance, roof, exterior paint, etc., etc. However, there was an item in the CC&Rs that said you could not park your vehicle in your own driveway for more than 30 minutes -- you had to have vehicles fully inside the garage, or parked on the street (public streets - the HOA didn't maintain the streets, our tax dollars did). The HOA had the legal right (and they took full advantage of it) to issue "tickets" -- at $25 per ticket) -- for violations of that rule. If you were working on your vehicle, changing the oil, etc., you had to do that within the garage with the garage door down. Violations would result (if you were "caught") in a $25 ticket. If you didn't pay the ticket(s), the HOA had the legal right to foreclose on your home. We never had a problem because it was just the two of us and neither of us worked on our own vehicles, but one of our neighbors was always fighting the HOA because his teenage sons were always working on their cars and getting HOA tickets for it. It was crazy. We owned that place for 6 years, then sold it at a huge profit and moved to Sacramento County, CA, where we've been for the last 24 years.

For the first three of those years we owned a place that also had an HOA, with $92 per month dues. They maintained the roofs, exterior painting, and front landscaping. The homeowners were responsible for their own back yards. There was a community pool, and tennis courts and greenbelt areas.

The HOA was constantly giving one woman grief over her window coverings. The CC&Rs stated that all window coverings, no matter what type they were, had to show white or off-white to the exterior. So, you could have fire-engine red drapes, but they had to be lined with a thick enough white (or off-white) fabric that from the outside it looked like you had white (or off-white) drapes. Anyway, I don't remember what color this woman's kitchen window coverings were, but they weren't white or off-white, so the HOA was assessing her some crazy fee each month that she refused to pay. The HOA wanted to foreclose on her for the dang fees, but she fought it and won. And she won because her house had been one of the model homes and had the same window coverings that it had when it was being used as a model. Her argument was that the developer was selling the places with the HOA and CC&Rs already in existence (and in these instances, the developer has the majority of HOA board positions), and the developer had used an interior decorator to "do" the models, so whatever was put into the models had to have been acceptable.

We've owned this house for 21 years (bought it while it was in the framing stage), and there is NO HOA. I don't think I could ever live anywhere with an HOA again.

You are correct that Home Owner Associations can vary tremendously. That's why it is SO important never to buy into such a situation without reading the bylaws or other documents thoroughly and getting answers to questions (or being willing to take deliberated risks) on those items not included. I've heard real horror stories. I myself live in a three person condo (a converted 19th century home) so the three of us ARE the HOA--and thus no surprises.

DH was a property manager for many HOAs in So. Calif. Some were wonderful to work with and others were nightmares. A few of the boards/board members were way over the line with their imagined authority. If you google "homeowner associations" you will find a wealth of information. The Nolo sight is excellent. You can also google your own state laws regarding HOAs. The boards can't supercede state law......

wantoretire, I have Googled, but these guys don't believe me, I need documented proof that they are wrong. I did not think to Google "Kansas state laws regarding HOAs", I just Googled HOAs in general. Maybe your way will bring up better information.