lost1of3-From my own situation having a third party deliver a gift without having heard from the gift giver directly is okay only when there is no outstanding conflict, it is accepted like the regular gift that it is. That is not the case with your situation so having a third party deliver a gift for you was not okay. You said your son told you two years ago to not contact him. What reason did he give at that time and since then? If he was very clear that he wanted no contact your contacting him and sending gifts would be very inappropriate. Did he give any indication at that time or since then of why he needed you to not contact him? Pay close attention to his stated reasons. No work you do on yourself will better the relationship more than learning to respect another persons clear boundaries. If your son has given you mixed messages before now that is probably a bad sign for his marriage. How really can his wife know how to have a relationship with you if he is back and fourth about it? He has to figure out exactly how he wants the relationship to go and take the lead. If he set the relationship at no contact and then acted as though he didn't I can't see how she would know which way to go. It was very difficult for me to determine how to interact with my husbands mother. I saw how his resentment and avoidance of her effected our marriage and frankly it was scary. I really recommend reading Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend to anyone struggling with in-law relationships or any relationship that is very out of balance like the ones you describe. When there is an estrangement, at least this is true of my case and of those I have discussed with others, it is viewed as using the deliverer and as being manipulative to do what you did in sending the gift. The gift being delivered by your ex was likely seen a successful attempt to 'get in' without having mended the relationship issues or reestablishing the broken trust and respect with your son and daughter in law. The look on her face could have been the same as the one I had when my husband once again flip flopped in his take on his mom. If I gave a look like the one you described in such a situation that would have been a big part of it. Triangular communication is a huge no no from the healthy boundaries perspective too. My sister in law refused to 'just leave a few extra blankets' with us for our kids from her mother when her mother told her to. SIL knew from past experience that her mother will go around people she is in conflict with instead of working through the issues. We as a married couple worked hard to establish some healthy boundaries and figure out how to be have new adult to adult relationships with our parents. It was very uncomfortable at first but with practice and patience from the important people in our lives it worked out well. My husbands mother refuses to have that kind of relationship though and it is very painful and stressful unlike all the other relationships. She will not acknowledge or respect boundaries. I understand it is a hard transition for her also and have told her as much but that doesn't mean we will throw out the rules of our home for her or let her plant herself in the middle of our marriage. She has a major problem accepting or even hearing us say no. She will press and press to do as she feels and her emotions get spread around in our marriage like hot sauce. She is a walking conflict at times because 'she LOVES us SO MUCH'. It is not her love but her lack of respect that is very destructive. It was also my husbands baggage from the past and now mine from the more recent past that made things hard. She'd do what she wanted regardless of what we said and then she would deny, minimize or justify her behavior. I beleive she always did what she felt was good but we didn't seem visible to her when she would break a boundary that we had clearly stated. That in itself was a problem. Who wants to have a relationship with another adult who respects their own feelings and decisions but who purposely disregards yours? If the boundaries don't apply to her she will have a say so in our marriage that makes me feel walked on and my husband a withdrawn and depressed and destructive individual. He often put on a blank face but I got to live with hours of angry resentment after he would let her do what she wanted without standing up for what he wanted. It was bad for everyone. My sister in law told her mom no way about the blankets. I don't know how her mom reacted. I didn't ask. I was just grateful that my sister in law is not the side taking emotionally overburdened individual she used to be. Saying no is actually respectful. It would have been a breech of trust between us and sister in law for sister in law to 'accidentally' leave or give things for our children when MIL won't speak to us. I respect it when someone can identify and maintain a boundary. There is no safe feeling or trust without the ability to say and respect someone elses yes or no. I can't speak about your situation or read your DILs mind but from my own experience the look in my eyes at a situation like you described (father in law delivering a surprise gift from mother in law that has been asked to not contact) that would have been because I was upset with the deliverer of the gift for 'dropping an emotionally laden bomb' without warning. It is not okay to have a third party, in this case your ex, deliver a gift for a child when you have outstanding issues with the child's mother and with your son. Your son liked your lovely work but that doesn't mean that he is ready to accept the gift and maintain boundaries with you in a more normal way, so the estrangement from your DILs perspective might be a measure of weather or not her marriage is stable or not. It is a very frightening place to be in as a wife. If that is the case I feel sorry for you both, your pressing with the gift or anything might make her feel as though she is on a roller coaster instead of in a stable marriage. It is no ones fault but your son will have to work out where he wants to stand and how to handle himself with both you and his wife. The look could also have been a look of hurt because your DIL thought your ex was there to have a good visit with them and ended up being your errand boy instead. In her place I would have lost a deep trust with my father in law for not being sensitive to the fact that she and her husband need to work out their own issues and instead he just blundered rather rudely into the middle of it. Her shutting down being interpreted as her being to blame is also not a good sign for his relationship with her or by extension your relationship. Just as he was reading her expressions she might also be reading his. Why does he feel he must take sides and judge? Instead of you and she working it out he stomped into the middle by being a go between and is now taking your side. That is not something that will help you in the long run. It is another example of poor boundaries in your familys situation. It is too bad he didn't simply say no to delivering it in the first place. Your son or at least your daughter in law is likely on the receiving end of advice about how to be a married couple that conflicts greatly with your own tendencies if you are the 'people pleaser' you describe your self to be. In my experience being a people pleaser means feeling very responsible for the emotions and lives of those around you even when it is unhealthy and inappropriate. You cannot reach in and 'fix' your son and DIL without breeching boundaries left and right. And your desire to spare him and yourself from future regret at the expense of being respectful of their boundaries now, and to be so overly responsible for everyones part in the relationship concerns me. My mother used to make many mistakes along those lines and was very difficult to know because of the extreme over responsibility she took on. Her over feeling and doing and people pleasing made it unsafe for me to express genuine needs and emotions with her. You want to help and they want you to respect their separateness from you. Does any of that seem relevant to your situation? Your exs stepping in delivering anything and taking sides will make you look bad according to the boundaries interpretation of how to deal with in-law relationships. He should be able to have a relationship with them that doesn't involve you. You should be able to respect the fact that your son asked you to not contact him. He is responsible for the consequences of his own decisions as an adult, you want to spare him from later regret but you are only managing to disrespect a clear boundary which is probably the main problem that you have. How many times have you contacted him and his wife since he asked you not to? How many times has he contacted you? Did he clearly state that he had changed his mind about his request that you not contact him? You are likely right that communication issues are probably a very big part of the problem. You do not sound like you have rage issues or a genuine habit of manipulating people as my poor mil does, you do sound like the information on healthy boundaries would really help you see your own responsibilities clearly and help you stop feeling that you must continue to flog yourself until any possible fault comes out so you can apologize again and again and fix their issues. You are taking on too much in my opinion. It is good that your son will be returning the lovely dress. If the situation were worse and your daughter in law more angry than hurt or trying to protect the boundaries they are trying to create then the gift would likely have been thrown out. They certainly have some issues that they need to address honestly if they are returning the dress but the issues are theirs to be responsible for. There is much more going on in their marriage probably than you know about and having a separation from you is an expression of that. It is not your place to fix it. You will at least have an opportunity to talk to your son about why they don't want the dress and what kind of contact you can expect to have with them. I hope when he returns the dress that will be a step in the right direction. I am certain from the things you have described that much of the issue has to do with your sons communication to his wife about you and probably about his own unresolved issues from growing up or his ability to respond honestly to you and her both now. None of that is your responsibility. It is his and it sounds like by bringing you back the dress he is at least trying to maintain a boundary that he set. (After he said not to contact him how did you respond?) For his wife that might be much more about weather he is willing to be a man in their marriage than it is about you personally. I am assuming that you made the dress and sent it with your ex without calling to see if it would be welcome at this time. Is that so? If so why? Is it easier to not face a possible no on the front end than to apologize afterward or be hurt that it wasn't welcome? From my experience with my husband it was three years after our marriage before he stopped habitually doing a very destructive communication dance between himself and his mother and I. Once when I started to be direct with his mom he cut me off and told her that I was just tired. I wasn't, he just didn't want me to be direct with her. I wanted her to speak to me before taking my child out of my arms. Her timing was not always great. He later refered angrily to her about her habit of treating me as though I were merely babysitting her child instead of parenting my own but he actively interfered with my being direct with her about how I'd like to be treated. He was afraid of her feelings, either teary and over responsible or rageful, sometimes both. But his position of not wanting to be direct with her and then being direct but not following through left the situation worse than if I was allowed to simply talk to her about it. We all had communication and relationship problems that made the situation worse. My husbands setting boundaries with his mother was actually a stabilzer for our marriage though. I believe it is more than your DIL not wanting you around that has gotten you the situation that you have. You have mentioned your son possibly having issues. I know that was true of my husband. His parents were also divorced and his father was also unfaithful. No one gets through divorce unscathed really. There first priority needs to be their marriage if it is to work. The dress sounds like it was lovely and if they had no other issues might have been appreciated but maintaining a boundary is, by the sound of it a higher need to keep their marriage on course, than accepting the gift at this time. Respecting boundaries is not a small thing. That is what I make of the situation you described. I do not think it is a matter of your DIL not wanting you around. I think it is a matter of her loving her husband and wanting him and their marriage to be stable and not whatever it is she has experienced him to be in relation to you before. I think the issue is more with your son and his wife and less with you. His setting and maintaining boundaries with you, and your respecting them, will help his marriage and in the long run that will help you to have a relationship with them.

Maybe the OP means just outside of city limits. In NC, I can throw a rock and be outside the city. The "no-mans land" has the same school district since we are county based but it has septic and well water. Technically it has different fire coverage but our fire dept would still go there. Same with using the sheriff instead of our police force. The density is less but they get to use our roads so it isn't a commute issue. Well - in this area - being in the city is easier to sell and commands a higher value. I'm not entirely sure why but it just is. We had the option and bought in the city - paid more for the privilege of a higher tax rate. I do know why - it was mostly the feel of the area. I didn't want to give up part of the yard to septic field and I prefer curbs. I also thought the city's laws made more sense. There were other considerations as well but it doesn't make the most financial sense.

Thank you so much everyone!! A tattoo on the big toe! I think that that would hurt 80 million times more than these did! It wasn't that brave Terri. It only took maybe 20 minutes to a half hour. And a lot of wincing. LOL Stacy, do you like shopping for shoes? My foot is a nine and WIDE so I hate shoe shopping. I only go when absolutely necessary. Blech. :) I haven't named them Flamey, BUT the girls have claimed one each. Claire insists on the littlest one even though she's not my littlest girl. But that's okay. :) So Kim does it hurt less on say the back or leg because I was thinking that there was NO WAY that I could sit for hours of that. It was ouchie. :D Thanks again everyone! I love how they turned out. Danielle

Uffda! You guys are nice to talk to! Beryl- Yeah...the Big-Dance sure is a crazy time! Last year was SO fun when NDSU had won #3 of 4 Football NCAA-Championships; and in March, our Men's BB-team upset Oklahoma in round 1!!! But when I saw Gonzaga as THIS years game...ummmmm! Awm- Ouch! Hmmmm...that IS an interesting situation. Yes, the Kansas's should've been on opposite sides of the bracket. Arcy- Small world! Gotta like ND HS-Basketball! Are you in or near ND? I got pretty fired-up when the Bison closed within 6 in the 2nd-half!!! The Zag's 3pt-shooting was LETHAL though. We were pretty cold from the long-arc. We did pretty good against their height, but not good enough. Who recruits from Poland anyway?!??!?! That seemed kinda unfair in a way.... Faron