The statement you highlighted means we have government regulators in all factions of commerce and when those regulators screw up we add another layer of regulators instead of correcting the existing problem. It has nothing to do with competing insurance companies. I'm going to bow out of these discussions. If you are really interested you can find the answers to your questions on the internet. I also urge you to read the links I provided in another thread about our Constitution and the Bill of Rights - both are brief and define the powers of the Federal government. My favorite founder of this country was Thomas Jefferson - here are some of my favorite quotes from him - think about them. The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive. Most bad government has grown out of too much government. Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. AND MY VERY FAVORITE Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. These are part of the principles I was taught in school. I guess the old saying of not being able to teach an old dog new tricks applies to me. Brooke

Sherrmann: I don't know how to do italics either, so I'm just going to use the age old quotes, should I quote you. =0) The different systems were all listed on a website at one time, but it was several months ago, I believe it's "hillaries" plan that has the communist bent I mentioned (though I could be wrong on that....). Obama had one that makes a immediate "check-up" mandatory, though I don't remember what happens if you tell them to pound sand. "WHY ARE YOU NOT BOTHERED BY THAT?" Who says I'm not?!? Ok, I'm not as bothered by companies restricting the folks who choose to use their company, because each and every one of those folks have the choice not to give that company their money. (I also understand that those companies have made agreements with the doctors on their list, that they can only charge their people certain amounts, thus saving the insurance company and the consumer both money. Thus the reasons for the lists.... of course you can go outside your system, but the company will only pay the amount they have worked out with the doctor on their list... you will have to pay the rest.) Consumers seem to have forgotten that what they buy, they get. If there is not an option out there that they find ok, then they have the choice not to buy at all. We had a post either here or in the money saving forum that proves that point to the letter. Someone wanted to be able to pay their bill by phone without charge. At least 5 folks came on saying that they should just accept what the company offered, even if it wasn't what they wanted. Excuse me WHAT?!?!?!? Why the heck should we do that? There are too many companies offering similar services to settle for what one company offers. My dad just had a woman for a satellite company tell him that he had to either pay $70 for a service call, or pay a monthly fee to have them come out and fix their equipment, that there was no other choice. She was actually shocked to find out that HIS choice would involve a rival company and NOT paying this company's bogus fees. (they came out and fixed their stuff without charge) Yes, I know, just like that lady on the phone, many believe that they do not have a choice in the insurance company they choose. It's simply not true. You always have a choice. It may be between something bad and something worse, but it is still a choice. "I DON'T THINK IT IS OK FOR "SOME OF US TO FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS." NO ONE IS MORE ENTITLED TO GOOD HEALTH CARE THAN ANYONE ELSE." No, it's not "OK", but it IS going to happen. No matter how good the system it's still run by people, and people aren't perfect. There are folks in every system in the world falling through those cracks. Are wealthy people "entitled" to more/better care simply because they can pay for it themselves? As much as it seems to go against the grain, and that I hate the word "entitled"....... Yes. In the same way as they are "entitled" to better houses, better cars, and even better tvs. They can pay to fly to where ever the expert in their particular problem is, they can afford to stay as long as they need to in that area, they can afford the fees that the best can charge. They can also chase all over the world for the latest "cure" not available here, to the scientists and the wackos who they think can help. They can pay to have a private nurse come to their home and stay with them for 24 hours a day for months and/or years. And as much as many may hate it, those wealthy folks chasing the fountain of youth, allow the experts to volunteer their time helping those that may not have as much. Allows them to charge less if anything to those who can not afford to pay. And in the case of a home health nurse... pays a living salary for someone else. This does not mean that everyone should not be able to get some basic care. It does not mean that everyone should be able to get good care. And if you need me to pay for your basic health care, then you should be willing to go through the systems currently in place. They may be broken, but they are in place. Somehow it seems to speak to the "throw away" society we have become that no one is interested in fixing what we have, they just want to go out and buy "healthcare 2.0". Kidney cancer (hopefully you are doing better now) is not a minor ailment. I believe that the comment was directed at those who could not be bothered to take a few hours off work to take a kid with a cold to the regular doctor. Anyone who has ever been in an ER has seen the number of folks with routine care concerns that are filling up the seats and bogging down the staff. Each and every one of those folks are going to be charged ER rates, which is probably 2-3 times more than a regular office visit, even including the time off work. Which may have something to do with Americans "paying twice as much" for care than other parts of the world, if in fact we do. If we do it is probably the ONLY thing we pay more for. I believe that I am intelligent enough to make my own decisions, and am old enough to take responsibility for my own actions or inactions. Whatever they may be. I wonder how many folks will be thrown into financial trouble by these plans (even those without a communist bent). With many living paycheck to paycheck and that's without insurance... how much worse off will those that we are supposedly trying to "help" be? How many will tank out and go under with the additional tax burden? Yes, it sounds good as long as you do not scratch the surface. So did ARM's and IO loans not too long ago......

Well - here it is ... and a week later. Check out the "Driven to Quit" Challenge! If a resident of Ontario who joins quits smokiing during the month of March, there's a possibility of winning a 2011 Honda CR-Z Hybrid or Honda Insight Hybrid: winner's choice. There are 2 - $5,000. vacations to be won provincially, plus seven regional prizes worth $2,000. Assistance is available through Canadian Cancer Society Smokers' Helpline at 1 877 513-5333 and SmokersHelpline.ca. Must be an Ontario resident over 19 years of age (but there may be connections in other parts of Canada). 23 prizes ranging from approx. $200. to $23,000. in value to be won, they report. Prize winners must answer a skill-testing question (usually mathematical). Visit DrivenToQuit.ca by Feb. 28 to register. Please **note that deadline** - time is getting short. Sorry that I haven't posted the full info earlier. Good wishes to all of you local people who may choose to take up this challenge. Plus to any of you in other areas who may be choosing to quit about now. ole joyful

Some U.S. people near Canada can hear the CBC radio programs as they are broadcast from land stations in their area: these messages are on CBC Radio One. Their programming is carried on Sirius 137, available throughout North America, I believe ... and at www.cbc.ca. I think that this may be heard at www.cbc.ca/news/worldreport. I'm sorry that I did not provide this information this morning, but was in a bit of a hurry and was thinking about what I'd be doing today. I wanted to provide this information as early as possible for those of you who may be interested. These are busy days in the garden (and I have over three times a much as last year: new area has 6 rows just over 60 paces, about 180 feet long). I'm behind in stringing lines for peas and pole beans and some of the tomatoes are too large to install the wire cones to support them ... but I'll be installing poles and lines along both sides of over 3 rows about 70 feet long. Hope you're getting a kick out of summer. ole joyful