Anybody feeling queasy about the stock market?

alisande

15 years ago

I just got home a little while ago and felt a little sick when I saw what the stock market did today.

I don't really understand the financial mess, but I sure am worried about it.

Anyone else?

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Comments (35)

User
15 years ago
My husband. I am powerless to do much about it except go to work, don't put all my eggs in one basket and pray. I have no idea what to make of all this either.
monica_pa Grieves
15 years ago
I got out of the market over a year ago, in preparation for retirement.
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Greetings everyone. Some folks may find some useful advice in the posts above. All that I said in the previous post still applies. The guy whose system I spoke of, whose Canadian system, using solid stocks, takes about 2 hours per year to operate, as one can choose a basket of 10, or 5, or 4 stocks and several of the chosen stocks, usually about 6 to 10 of the list of 10, continue unchanged, year to year. The system has a growth rate averaged over 20 years of about 14% ... at low (for Canadian residents) tax rate on current income, plus much of the gain stored up over a number of years till one sells, then there's a tax advantage on the gain, in Canada. But if one puts one's asset into the bank, where it produces interest ... one must pay part of the interest to the income tax people ... and interest is taxed at top rate. The borrowing agency guarantees that the number of dollars that you lent them won't shrink: the parallel guarantee that they never mention is the number of those invested dollars won't grow, either. So folks who put those grow-proof dollars into the bank must put some of the interest with the principal to maintain purchasing power, to counteract inflation. I expect my stocks to increase in value, at least partially offsetting the inflationary costs. I'd rather buy (part of) the bank! Not only have my bank shares' values grown, directly, over those years ... ... the dividend rate grew from a nickel or a dime, 41 years ago, to $3.48 annual rate, last year. Taxed at a low rate in earlier years, but the tax rate on that kind of income dropped again, last year. As that mutual fund manager said, "I like to buy a Dollar ... for 60 cents". I agree - but I'll buy it myself, saving the management fees that he charges. I'm sad that so many investors, when stock prices fall ... rush to the exits, instead of getting ready to buy more, and buying them. Further ... had some of you U.S. guys chosen to buy some Canadian money to have bought those stocks 5 - 6 - 7 years ago, 65 - 69 - 75 cents U.S. would have bought you CAD$1.00. If you were to choose to sell those stocks now (and I don't know why you would) every CAD$1.00 now does not buy only 69 cents U.S. ... but within a couple of cents either way of $1.00. Which would have meant an additional 1/3 - 1/2 growth of your invested asset. In addition to the growth over those years. I've written recently of a guy's mixed Canadian and U.S. system that, running for 16 years, has produced 5 year growth rates averaging 16 - 36% (a difference of 20) ... and 10-year growth rates averaging 19.6 - 29.3% (a difference of 10): note the lower rate of volatiity over the ten-year periods, please. The longer you leave quality stocks ... the better they do. Remember how the skilled advisors say to invest your dollars in good stocks, watch them a little in case the company gets crippled, but don't sweat blood if a $20.00 stock goes down $1.00 ...or $2.00 ... or $3.00 or more. If it's a quality stock, it'll likely recover. In fact, while the market is dropping, remember what a mutual fund manager told a group of us sales people almost 25 years ago ... "I like to buy a Dollar for 60 cents". During a substantial drop in the market, recruit some extra money in addition to the regular investment program that you follow. As you don't know when the bottom will appear, invest some funds from time to time, in a regular fashion. Would you rather buy coffee that's worth $1.00/lb. usually ... ... for $1.20 ... ... or, after a drop in the market - for 80 cents. As long as the quality is there, I like the last scenario the best. How unfortunate that so many investors buy a stock for a Dollar ... and when the market goes down, they get upset, angry and scared ... and sell for 60 cents! Good wishes for learning more about how the markets work, every month and every year. It's a hobby that pays well. Maybe use mutual funds for a while in the early years of your investing program, for diversity, but later learn how to buy various stocks from time to time, building your own diversity? The fees that you pay to regular mutual fund managers are substantial - comparable to the rate of income tax that you pay. And, if you put the money into the bank in "guaranteed" financial products, you must take some of current ernings to add to the principal to keep the purchasing power of your dollars even. When you put $20,000. into the bank 15 years ago, the bank would pay you (rather slim) interest every year, as agreed. If you need your $20,000. now and go to collect it, they'll pay you exactly $20,000. - which would have bought a nice car, 15 years ago ... but not now - cars are more expensive, as are most things. So, you must pay income tax on the current income, and at the top rate, by the way. You must put part of it with the principal to maintain purchasing power. I don't like earning interest! Good wishes to you and yours. And teach your kids about how money works, O.K? Please! They'll use that information every day of their lives! ole joyful
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Good point MMELKO, I live ina na area where everyone commutes by train so had not thought of the drive. I think that may become a big factor if gas goes over about 3.50 or even a little over 3, I think that is where people start to change their habits (avoiding unessessary shopping trips) and at 4 per gallon they start car pooling and the like. Money is not tight but I know when gas prices were in the 3s last summer I really cut back on unecessary drives. As for home heating, it really depends, yes if you cannot afford the heat on a 1300 sq ft starter home with 8 foot ceilings, then yes you need to rethink your purchase. However, if the issue is a 25 ft or 14 ft vaulted ceilings on a 4500-6500 sq ft house, that can cost an extra 500 per month (over a house of the same size with ordinary ceilings). If I allocate a certain amount to my housing costs and include monthly utilities, for that 500 I can buy $75k more house. I may end up buying the vaulted ceiling one but I will buy it knowing that I am more at the mercy of oil and gas costs than in another house of similar size
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veta
15 years ago
Hi. Longtime lurker here, but I feel that I need the support of all of you. I wonder if anybody is NOT feeling queasy about the stock market. I have very recently become a widow, and am just overwhelmed with worry about my finances, etc. My husband and I thought that we had everything under control - now this. He would be going nuts if he were here to see the financial mess, as you so aptly described it!
itsmesuzq
15 years ago
Oh yes...I am worried that if something isn't done we could really be facing something that our generation has not seen - a depression. I hope it doesn't come to that but when all you see in the headlines is doom and gloom it makes you wonder. I live in California and this State is really on the verge of going under. We have been told there will be no COLA's (annual raise) this year and probably next. That means we are officially going backwards. The cost of everything is going up, and we are can't keep up with the higher prices. I expect a hiring freeze next. My personal IRA (from another companies 401k) has lost thousands of dollars in this decade, but I have never seen it go down as fast as these last 3 or 4 months. Yikes. This mess will effect us all if it continues. I really hope they can get it together and decide upon another "plan" that really works for all. And I hope they don't call it a "BAILOUT plan"!! That word alone gives me a nasty taste in my mouth.

For me personally I am paying special attention to what's happening because my goal is to retire this coming June. I'm not sure if I can achive that goal now...but I still have faith in the "powers that be" to get us help to stop the bleeding.

Susan
western_pa_luann
15 years ago
Yes, I feel a bit queasy.

But I am not going to WORRY, as worrying does absolutely no good.
We are diversified... we got out of risky stocks/funds last spring... we did what we could and it is out of our hands.
Fortunately, since we are in out mid 50s, we have time to rebound.

Plus, not all out stocks tanked. Some are actually doing well!
bigfoot_liz
15 years ago
i can see that alot of people don't understand this bailout and only see it as helping bankers but they will see how exactly this problem is going to directly hurt them. if you have enough cash to live on for the rest of your life w/o social security and medicare and will never need another credit card, mortgage or car loan then you are going to be fine. otherwise w/o some sort of help today will become the norm for the market until all the companies w/o a ton of cash on hand are eliminated from the market.

i think more importantly we've started to see the affects of the tightening credit crisis in the orlando area. one of the largest chevy dealers in this country, bill heard chev, just closed all 6 locations in the south including a huge one w/ 300+ employees. another car dealership went under, courtesy buick, took another 300+ employees too. my employer keeps reassuring us we can weather the worst financially but we are all uneasy anyways. everyone we deal w/ is depressed about the state of the economy, it's sooo bad most of us did not go visit a huge tradeshow we do for the industry last week. none of us wanted to hear all these industry people predicting the worst.

if you have a bank of america credit card there are real rumors of them yanking credit to anyone w/ a FICO score under 750. that constitutes 60-80% of their customers. they need to dump losses fast for their 4th qtr reports. credit card companies are expected next to fail and need bailout followed by auto loan providers.

my dh & i are lucky we've been working to improve our financial outlook for yrs and yrs thru getting better degrees and training. i was raised to believe social security/medicare would not be around for me even thou i've paid in for 25 yrs now and have reached my payout limit ($2K month) before i was 40 yrs old. i started my 401K when i was 19 and work very closely w/ my dad who is a cpa & certif financial planner to allocate my $$ around as the market moves. even thou i feel we can weather this crisis in our house i still feel uneasy. my birthday was a week ago and i had planned a really big shopping spree, i can afford to do it but w/ this feeling of doom i decided to be conservative and wait and see....~ liz
itsmesuzq
15 years ago
Good post "western pa luann". I forgot to say I have a very balanced portfolio. But my IRA has taken a hit straight across the board. Try to stay calm and stay as debt free as possible, keep yourself educated on what you invest in and find an honest financial advisor that you have faith in...and stay connected with them.

I don't think it's going to be the end of world, but it's not going to be easy either.

Susan
minnie_tx
15 years ago
No, I think it will get ironed out
Maybe not to everyones liking.
They have to put a curb on the bad mandates the govenment put on banks around 1999 which forced them to ease the credit requirements on loans ala Fannie Mae those banks had to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit was generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans.
This really started back around 1977 in the CRA Community Reinvestment Act.

The problems accelerated and efforts made to curb it or investigate or change it were thwarted by the ruling congresses.

I'm sure it will get fixed.
susanjf_gw
15 years ago
we'll hang in and pray that the 401's recoup, which i believe they will in time...it's those horrid a/r/m's mortages and the foreclosures...i'm sooo glad all my kids refinanced and went to 30 yr fixed, when they did!
alisande
Original Author
15 years ago
It's encouraging that some of you with a better grasp of the situation than I feel somewhat optimistic.

Veta, I'm in a similar boat. I've been a widow for almost three years, and my finances suffered a huge blow when my DH spent 2.5 years in a nursing home before he died. So my assets are nothing like what he thought they'd be. I supplement my income with freelance work, and I'm frugal by nature (thank heavens!), and I've been hoping I won't have to go back to work outside the home.

I probably shouldn't have used the word "worried." I agree with Luann that worry is worse than useless, and I'm a big believer in positive thinking. But I am concerned.

I do have confidence in my financial advisor. A friend of mine has been calling her financial advisor just about every day in recent weeks. She says if the market goes low enough (she said this before today), she wants him to sell everything. That makes no sense to me.
littlebug5
15 years ago
We were talking about this at supper a little while ago. Luckily we also are in our 50's and have time to recover (crossing my fingers).

DH was wishing we had a spare $10K or so laying around. He'd go buy stocks first thing in the morning. Buy low, sell high.
socks
15 years ago
Smart move, Monica.
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
15 years ago
I just checked 7 stocks, and all 7 were up in the 'after hours trading' from what they were at the close of the market today. Things have already started a rebound.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Ford Motor Co.
bigfoot_liz
15 years ago
i know several people going on buying frenzies right now and a few waiting on the bottoming out yet to come, i'm in that bunch. but like i said getting available credit is going to be very very difficult for the next 2 yrs or more so alot of people can not afford to spare tens of thousands of cash$$ to buy a decent amount of stock right now. i know intellectually now's the time, even more so when it drops farther, but i also know darn well that unless you have perfect credit score w/ 6 figures in the bank as cash, credit is not avail so buying anything worries me. i'm a plan for the worst w/ cash girl, then invest...i do have to say that cash is king right now and people will bend over backwards to do what you want to get your cash. ~ liz
workoutlady
15 years ago
I'm feeling a bit uneasy but not so much for me and more for my daughter. She's in college right now and loans are hard to come by. She finally got hers on Friday for this semester but next semester is a wait and see. I'm not spending any extra cash just in case I have to help her out more than I had planned. I have been having to reassure her that we will help her out much more if we have to. She just hates asking us for money. I'm not sure why, we have never given her a hard time about it. She says she just feels bad asking. I know that things could be much worse for us though.
vannie
15 years ago
The only comfort we have is that our house is paid for, cars paid for, and we have no loans. Our portfolio is diversified and we have quite a lot of utilities. Our money is in a credit union, not a bank. Not sure why, but CU's are supposed to be safer. I worry for my children. They all have loans out the wazoo. They all drive new cars, and my oldest daughter has bought about 10 houses that she has rented or else is selling and is owner financing them. She owns her own business and that scares me. I just hope they vote again and this thing passes. DH says we will vote against all incumbents next time!!
mombondo
15 years ago
I learned the hard way "playing" the stock market & mutual funds back in the mid-90's. Heck I could spend the $$$ Prudential was losing, (oh wait, I think they called it "investing")AND I would still have something to show for MY way of investment.....what $$$ I have is safely in my 401k and it will stay there!
sue_va
15 years ago
I was thinking earlier today about my parents. When the Depression hit in 1929, I was 5 years old, the youngest of 9 children. So my thoughts today were along the line of wondering how my DM and DF might have felt and what their thoughts were at that time.

I know that my DF lost his business, (automobile sales) our house and the new house he was building for us. I was too young to know if they were worried, or distressed, etc. I only know that we all survived, because everyone who was old enough to work, did. There were jobs if you didn't mind getting your hands dirty and blistered.

I am not a worrier, never have been, don't even know how. Hopefully my financial resources will be sufficient. The one thing I kept saying to myself is, well, there goes my long term nursing home $$. I've always said I'm going to live to be 100, so by then I'm sure everything will have righted itself, and I'll be sitting in a rocking chair on the porch of the Old Folks Home. Thats only 16 years from now!

I've always been frugal, so this is nothing new to me. We have to realize what caused this. Too many people over spending, overloaded credit cards, houses and cars way more than were needed. And now we expect it to be "fixed."

I was widowed almost 26 years ago, after 38 years of marriage. My DH was a High School teacher and salaries then kept us counting pennies, but we did fine; had everything we needed, a home with a mortgage, and a a car or two.

All that to say this. Hunker down; you may need to make some hard decisions. I hope it isn't too late for any of you. I don't expect to see or hear of anybody jumping out the windows this time around!

Cheer up!

Sue
minnie_tx
15 years ago
Good post Sue Thanks
kframe19
15 years ago
I lost well in excess of 5 figures today; even more over the past year.

Darned right I feel queasy.

It's going to be awhile before we recover from this.

But I lost a lot of money during the dot.bomb of 1999-2001, and I recovered from that.
Kathsgrdn
15 years ago
Not really, I think it will recover eventually.
nancylouise5me
15 years ago
No, not feeling queasy or worried. We are diversified in our holdings. We are in it for the long run not the short race. They will rebound. NancyLouise
grammahony
15 years ago
I'm a little queasy, but I'm not in the stock market. When I retired I took my money and put it in annuties with a financial advisor. I have no 'smarts' in investing, and just hope he's doing a good job for me. I'm a widow, and living off my pension, SS, and a little monthly check from my annuities. No COLA here. I just won't go in and look at my balance in my annuity account for a while. I know last time it dropped 500+ points, I didn't do as bad as I thought I was going too. Anyway, I still don't/won't look until things smooth out a little. I'm not going to listen to any news, read any papers or anything on line about it either. It'll only make me upset, and there's nothing I can do anyway but ride it out.
Leslie
samkaren
15 years ago
I still have 20 years until retirement so I hope to the higher beings that it doesn't take that long to get this mess straightened out.

I'm not in the stock market either (never trusted it) and I certainly hope that the corporate big wigs are not given their golden parachutes. They don't deserve it.

SamKaren
your resident DJ
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
15 years ago
There is substantial recovery started today.

Dow is up 261 pts in the short time the market has been open today.

(the other) Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Dow Jones Industrial Average
gardenspice
15 years ago
For those of you in the market who have stocks that have lost value, remember that you do not experience that loss until you sell. If you have good value stocks, you will be fine over the long term, as those stocks once again gain value. This is a big reminder that funds that will be needed in the short term, should not be invested in the market.
Good luck!
hayjud_mn
15 years ago
I heard a telephone interview with Donald Trump, yesterday.
He said this is what we need, because it will really bring down oil prices. He said that oil is the life blood of the nation and the world. It will not be easy but it will bring some great improvments.
rosemaryt
15 years ago
A little queasy? Yikes. I agree with Liz's post. The stock market ride is more the surface symptom of a sick economy. There'll be starts and stops along the way, but the trend is down, down, down.

Time for a major correction in both the stock markets and the world economies.

Gold, silver and precious metals are almost impossible to find right now because people are looking for a safe haven for their nest egg(s). Today - right now - it's not so much about making money as protecting what you have. People are pulling their dollars out of the banks and putting their money into the "Bank of Sealy Posturepedic."

I believe things will get worse before they will get better. And if this $700,000,000,000 bailout passes, all hell will break loose. It's nothing but an asset redistribution scheme, taking money from the poor and middle-class and giving it to the wealthiest bankers and financial institutions. IMHO, of course.

Rose
okwriter
15 years ago
Mark to market. Many Republicans and Democrats are pointing to that ONE screwed up accounting rule as the cause. Google it for more info...and hope it is repealed. Soon.
jannie
15 years ago
My DH and I put our nest egg of about $10,000 in the stock market in 1985. In 1987, there was a crash and we lost $9000 of our nest egg. We left our remaining money in that account and it was back up over $14,000 by 2000 when the next "market adjustment" hit. Our lesson? Things go up and down, up and down. The important thing is we were both working, paying taxes, having and raising our children. we keep going. Just like the Joad family in The Grapes of Wrath.
Happy_Go_Lucky_Gayle
15 years ago
I'm saying prayers for all of us. I've recovered from Financial Disasters 3 times.

Gayle
lulie___wayne
15 years ago
I'm not worried about it because my husband and I will be okay and plan to ride it out. As several have said, it will come back and the worse thing to do now is to panic and sell. What saddens me is that my dad doesn't have a whole lot longer to live (he will be 84 on Oct. 8th, and has cancer). He may not have time to see his money grow again. I hate for him to die with much of his savings diminished.
Lu
des_arc_ya_ya
15 years ago
Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your dad, Lulie. My mom will be 84 on Oct. 7. (They're almost twins!)

Sorry to hijack your thread. As you were......
ruthieg__tx
15 years ago
What Lulie said holds true for us too. We will live out our life in relative comfort having lost a significant amount of money that we probably won't be able to recapture. We have done it in the past though so you never know what will happen. I pray that the pass a bill..A good bill to help because as Liz said....this isn't about a bail out for the big companies and the big execs...it's about the little guys. Everything that we own is completely paid for, we have a budget that is more than we spend each month so it is taking away the inheritance from our kids ...not from us.

My husband fired off an email yesterday during the vote to Fox news and now he is smiling because they were laughing and they actually read one of his emails on the air.
joyfulguy
15 years ago
At age close to 80, living on less than my pensions, my assets are about 80% in stocks ... and I bought some more, a couple of weeks ago.

I wasn't watching on Mon., but if I had would likely have bought something solid.

Go to "Yahoo", click on "Finance", at top left there's a box labelled, "Get quotes", enter "BRK-B", then click on the box.

You'll get a repoort of the open, high, low and close of the smaller Berkshire-Hathaway stock for the latest day, with current and average volume, and there's a chart of the price progression during the latest day on the right. Under the chart box, click on "6m" or "1 y" to find chart showing closing prices, daily or 3 days, for the recent 6 months or 1 year. If you'd like to see the price action during those days, above the chart there's a choice of "Bar" (which click on) or "Line" (or another for candlestick).

Or try "JNJ" or "BAC" (Bank America).

Or try "TD.TO" (Canadian bank, TD Canada Trust) or "ABX.TO" (Barrick Gold) or "ENB.TO" (Enbridge) or "TRP.TO" pipelines, "ECA.TO" (EnCana -natural gas), "NXY.TO" (Nexen - petroleum), "POT" (potash, a major fertilizer), all but the first are major resource providers, plus giving you some assets based in non-U.S. dollars.

But - if the U.S. economy gets a cold, the Canadian one usually gets pneumonia. However, those resources are sought in many parts of the world.

If you'd like to see a list of open, high, low and close, plus volume, and dividend rates (for some) click on "Historical prices" near top left.

What's better than putting your money into the bank?

Buying the bank! Let others' money work for you.

Good wishes for wise use of your resources.

ole joyful

Anybody feeling queasy about the stock market?

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