Dottie,
I dont' come here often enough to know anything about anything, but I do want to say that it is very brave of you to put yourself out there like this, and if you have upset people, I hope they will speak directly to you.

I have found forum discussions a wonderful opportunity for self awareness - such interesting dynamics to be sure.

I agree that the passive aggressive nature of nearly all forums fosters a lot of paranoia and also lost opportunities to learn how to be direct with gentle-ness.

Dottie - I just want to say, I have always found
you to be honest and kind.

I know that people get irritated with my posts. Sometimes,
I will admit, that I stick a pin in someone who seems
to be full of themselves. And, sometimes I am sorry
for that impulse - however, sometimes I am not.

However, I have also found that if opinions are asked
for -- the opinion must agree with the posters, or there
will be a grand bruhaha. LOL

In a recent post, people were mad at me, because I
didn't think it funny to put blame for our mistakes
on something that wasn't at fault.

It is really not hard to say, "I am sorry, but I goofed".
Today's world has a big problem with that sometimes.

And, so, if I offend thee -- "I am sorry".

And, to get back to the main topic, before I started
wandering -- as I said, I do enjoy your postings. And
find you to be fair and honest.

I don't post a lot, and I have gotten digs for that. My
travel and work schedule sometimes gets in the way.
So, I'm sorry that offends too.

well dottie, i could almost sign my name to your post too :-) except you put it out there and i didn't :-( since all that finger pointing started i've been wondering who is the target too... i went out on a limb during that FMW stuff saying others' should not be the ones to try and control the conversation and then it went real bad and i felt stupid for saying posters should be allowed to voice their feelings. dottie, many of us have said things that we probably wished we could erase afterwards, i know i have. that feeling is pretty much keeping me SOB most everything and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

all of this smacks of trolling, we've had it plenty of times but i really don't care enough anymore. after seeing some of the language on Sat thinly veiled as patriotism i just don't know what is going on here. i wish we would just go back to paying and paying well so we can demand our value but they can drown others' in ads and make their $$. ~liz

Dottie one thing I've discovered in my years on this rock, you can say "good morning" to some people and they'll be offended! Some just plain look for reasons to be offended!

You and I don't always agree on everything and that's fine. But I have to say my dear, I always respect your opinion and I respect that you have the guts to state your opinion. I hope you don't become fearful of sharing your ideas, your intellect and your opinions. It'd be a huge loss if that happened a loss only exceeded if you should decide to go somewhere else.

People are pretty strange if they don't have strong feelings about something, and what's so bad about stating them? Nothing. What's wrong with lively, intelligent discussion and YES, even *disagreement*! Nothing wrong with that either. I wonder why people who are so dead-set against a little discussion don't move to Iran or someplace where everyone either thinks alike or doesn't have the guts to say it. They'd fit in well there. I believe if something is wrong, it should be (most of the time) pointed out and corrected if possible.

Also, there's nothing negative about a disagreement, nor expressing one's opinion. On the contrary, I rate that as a positive.

Take a deep breath. Give Taz a call (and give her my best while you're at it!) and clear the cobwebs. You have nothing to regret.

It's a gorgeous day. Enjoy it before the rain moves in. Put that smile back on your face! I for one always look forward to reading your posts, no matter the topic. Though I'll admit, this one not so much!! ;)

Dottie, and everyone else here, I, too, have been wondering about these things lately. I hope I haven't been too much of a pain. It has made me think about things and I am going to try to keep my discourse civil and not attack anyone personally. I don't think I have, but I don't know how others take what I say. Your posts have always seemed fair and honest to me, too and what is the point if we can't say how we feel about a certain subject? I have noticed that some people who were on lots a couple of months ago seemed to have disappeared. I am going to try not to get drawn into the obvious baiting and just enjoy the people I like to hear from and about. Let's not give in to the drama.

Dottie, I think you can feel safe in posting anything, at least from my way of thinking - I have never disagreed with anything you've said, so SPEAK OUT!

I think it is okay to give your opinion.

But an opinion doesn't have to be condeming to other. It can be just an opinion.

I think what starts the riffs is when it is said it is said as though the other person is wrong.

We may think it is wrong..but what we think is just our opinion....for the most part.

If we are talking facts...we need to know "the facts" before we say anything.

Now...saying that...I'll say...sometimes I make mistakes and sometimes maybe my opinions might stink just like some of the rest of them...lol....ummm...did that help?

Dottie, I've been here almost since the beginning of KT, and I've learned that opinions vary widely, but that's part of what makes KT so interesting. I would never personally attack someone for their opinion, and I have never been attacked by anyone here. Express your opinions politely (as you have always done), and let the chips fall where they may. You are a valued member of this forum.

As for finding a nicer forum, I can't imagine a nicer forum than KT. Having met a number of KTers, I can tell you that they are real, honest, decent, wonderful folks. I don't agree with them all when it comes to politics and religion, but that's how life is in the "real" world, too.

I've been told to post away and not worry about the people who disagree or become nasty. Private e-mailer said I have to toughen up and not let the up-in-everyones-business-bees sting bother me. LOL So that is what I am going to do. If someone has to bite my opinion than they can choke on what they bite off I'm not going to worry or do a Heimlich apology.

The rub is some people will never learn the the difference between a FACT, an OPINION and a BELIEF. There will always be difference of opinions and those who will not allow the difference will spark an argument as often as possible. Beliefs will be attacked just because you can not prove a belief and there fore difference will spark the argument. Facts can be challenged but opinions and beliefs can't change a fact no matter how hard the challenger tries to shove their opinion or belief as fact. I will try not to argue a fact with someone If I have the facts and they wont accept it too bad for them. I would never try to make you believe what I believe and if my opinion and yours are not exactly the same viva la difference. It give us ample opportunity for polite discussion to see if we can learn from one another. We are allowed to change our opinion but it has to be a self choice again.
Good posting to all

LIL

Dottie, I enjoy your postings. You are always respectful of other's ideas and opinions.

I enjoy reading everyone's opinions whether I agree with them or not. For the most part, everyone is respectful of each other's opinions, but there are a few who seem to relish in making someone feel stupid. I often wonder if these same people would say those same words face to face. I doubt it. When I log in to the kitchen table it is the same as me pulling my chair up and sitting side by side with each of you. While we all have differing opinions, I'm sure we would chose our words alot more carefully. Whenever I post something, I do so as if we were having a face to face.

What I also find disheartening are posters making snide comments about a poster or calling someone out. It is rude to see jokes going back and forth about someone. If you want to talk about someone, please do so in a private e-mail. Again, would you be doing that if we were all sitting side by side? I doubt it!

I consider behavior to be more important than words. Of course, sometimes they go hand-in-hand, but not always. Whether someone agrees or disagrees, I'm happy for their viewpoint. In these cases, it's how they disagree that matters. Also, we've had some extremely immature (in my opinion) behavior exhibited over the past month or so; it doesn't take long to see the trend of it usually being the same people. Unfortunately, that behavior indicates more to me than their words do and leaves me feeling that they're not someone I want to interact with.

People who are snarky, snide, childish, or rude here are most likely that way in life, too. And, by the way and just as important, the behavior of those who react to the snarkiness, snideness, etc. also indicates the type of person that person is. It's not always pretty, and is often as bad or worse than the original "offense".

If we can't disagree and cite our reasons, and hear and consider each other's opinion, how in the world will we learn (if we want to ... perhaps some don't)?

Suzieque

Though it's not a popular stance, I think life is imitating art, if that's what you call talk radio and the talking heads on t.v. An awful lot of people listen to this *stuff* (how I'd like to use another word!) and feel free to speak similarly. The first time I heard one of these people spouting filth, I was appalled and surprised he was allowed to speak this way on air. I thought that surely no one would listen to him and hound him off the air, but I was wrong.

This leads to the idea that there is often an aura of "You're being taken advantage of so you should stand up for yourself and speak out!!" over trivial matters, or even made-up ones. It's a strategy that has much to do with politics (which use religion to create the "victim" feel,) so I'll stop here.

Dottie, you're a lovely gal and I always enjoy reading your posts! No need for you to worry about your posts.

I think God Bless you is fine as is I will pray for you. The kind of subjects that don't go over well with me is if someone says one religion is better than another, quoting the bible as proof of something, etc..

I enjoy reading both sides of something and sometimes my own opinion changes....but, like others here, I don't enjoy hostilities....but, truth be told, I can't even name names on who does it. The only complaint I even have here is when someone says "put my name on (such and such's) post." It's harder to scroll back up to see what "such and such" said, so I usually don't bother....

Uh-oh, I hope that didn't get ME in trouble....

Dottie, I enjoy your posts very much. Your opinion, beliefs, values, etc. are just as important as anyone elses. Don't allow anyone to run you off for speaking your mind. Who cares whether it's politically correct or not? As for telling someone God Bless You... is it wrong? No, dear. It is not. It is your belief. It is mine too.

Tammy

I think the secret of posting is to post something "in a nice way" say it with grace and maybe some sort of humility not a "I know everything and am smarter than you " attitude Sometimes a certain name will draw fire in a post . I know of posters who have insinuated that others are dumb, stupid idiots etc. Save that kind of talk for the Politics board. think so?

Just a thought for all of us to remember--anything you post on a computer can be their for life!! I run into things i posted several years ago, or even sent as a email.

I have been thinking alot all day about Dotmom's post. I, too, have enjoyed her posts. She seems to be a very nice lady. I agree with susieque that we have had some immature people posting lately and I agree they probably are that way in their life. I have been here a very long time and it has never been this nasty. We just don't need it here... I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but when someone doesn't agree they don't need to be attacked for "their" opinion. Their are a few that believe their way is the only way and it doesn't take much reading of their posts to figure out who they are. If you notice it usually is the same people that post back to them.

Wouldn't it be a very dull world if we didn't have different opinions to share with others? Think about this one...

I very much agree with Pattico and Minnie that it's the way things are said that's more important than what is said, often times. Sometimes people say things in a way that comes across as condescending, but then they say something like "I don't care... that's my opinion". However, there are ways to express an opinion that doesn't imply that people who don't share your opinion are dumb, or ridiculous.

For example, if the title of the post was: "Who here likes to knit?", someone might answer "I think it's a waste of time", and then go on to call knitters some derogatory name. Well, technically, it is true that anyone can have any opinion they want, and that everyone does have the right to express themselves. But if I'm a knitter, I might bristle at the choice of wording and feel it's insensitive, and is a put down to me for choosing the "wrong" way to spend my time. If the person instead says "I've never taken to knitting, but I know some people really enjoy it and find it relaxes them", then the opinion has been expressed in a way that is respectful to the interests of the others. IMO, it's a matter of good manners. This is a good topic, btw.

Thank you, Kt family for responding to my post. I am a tad thin-skinned, but you have made me feel better. I'll continue to post my opinions, but will edit them before I hit the submit button.

I think the thought for the day should be "it is all a matter of good manners"....thank you Susan. Nanny

Well, I guess I am a little thin skinned too because I am the one who told you to "lighten up" on the football post. It was never "said" in a mean or derogatory manner and I certainly wasn't dismissing your opinion. I just thought that you were looking at the negative aspect of the issue and dismissing the positive aspect.

I have been posting on this forum for many years, though I go in spurts according to how busy my other life is. I know that people talk about the forum police and all that but I don't know or care who they are talking about. I just post what I want, try to be (mostly) non-confrontational and somewhat polite and go from there.

Beautifully put susan. I think the vast majority of people on this forum are open to others expressing their opinions. That's not usually this issue. Things get heated, however, when someone expresses their valid opinion in a confrontational, all-or-nothing, or know it all tone. Tone is crucial in e-mail because, of course, we don't have the body language and other cues to go along with what we say.

I hope that you won't leave, Dot.

And I hope as well that you won't self-censor, for you are not one of the people who denigrates others and yells at them personally. That's what troubles a number of us.

I have my opinions, and express them. I try to be courteous to others, and diplomatic.

Most of the time ... but then my rascally self finds something to make a rather wry comment about, and I do it.

But I try not to be hurtful

Actually, I think I made a rather snide comment about cynic, the other day, wondering whether he thought much.

But I think that he understands that it was meant in jest, not seriously.

If I have offended someone ... or someones ... I regret that: I didn't intend to do so.

If you will write a private email to me, if you so choose, I will reply and try to patch things up between us.

I value your opinions and comments, Dot, and hope that you will continue to voice them, as before. You have never been scornful or abusive of others, or belittled them.

As for the clap-trap about patriotism the other day .......... well, I'd better not go there.

ole joyful

I am somewhat new to this site.I do play the KT trivia game. I read the posts I think interesting and ignore subjects that have no appeal to me.
So as I read all these comments about the nastiness and trouble making posters I am scratching my head saying what on this site? Seriously, maybe I haven't been here long enough but I am so surprised reading all these responses.
Janet

I think that another thing that gets lost on a computer post is sarcasm. I happen to be quite sarcastic, and have to edit myself sometimes. What one might think is a funny reply can easily be taken as mean when there is sarcasm involved.

Just as in real life, there is a huge variety of personalities at the KT. Some are nice and sweet all the time, some occasionally have a bad day and it shows in their posts and then there are those that will jump at any chance to be disagreeable. Then, of course, there's all the grey areas that we fall into.

I, too, am thin-skinned but I like to think that when I get my feelings hurt I am aware of my sensitivity and it's generally me, not them.

The very first time I posted here, several posters jumped on me and even though many were supportive, it's a wonder I came back. LOL

dottie - please don't remain upset about what happened at the other forum. Their loss is our gain! :)

Seriously though, to feel like you're singled out when you were invited to the party hurts! As far as "falling off the wagon", it's going to happen. You know you're a good person and add much to the KT conversations. So, carry on! :)

Don't you dare even think of leaving the table Dottie!!!
You are a warm, wonderful and valued person here. I love your posts, and more importantly, "you laugh at my jokes that I post!" Hahaha

I lurk at another forum, mostly the recipe site and would *never* think of joining. They snipe at one another constantly. Heaven forbid if someone asks them to re-post a recipe they missed! Here, when one of us here tries another member's recipe and gives it good reviews and others ask for the recipe; it gets posted, either by the member that tried it or another member.

On that site, they quickly get told to use the Search button!

Anyway, I joined here because of the warm and caring things that get talked about. Also the speed of getting answers to questions! I love that. Time is of the essence, you know! :-)

What ticks me off royally, is that a lurker will make a snide response. Someone who doesn't post on a regular basis.
It happened to me recently, and of course she didn't read everything that I had to say.

Did she post on the birthday, sympathy, good wishes, recipe, picture, opinion threads? Nope just comes in to slam. She's not the only one of course. Some people post just post to be negative, or holier-than-thou.

I'm not leaving, as I think this forum the best of any I've seen.

Hot Topics scares the beejeebers outta me. I'd love to be able to have a normal discussion about things happening North America without it turning into a battle.

So everyone, post away!

Ain't life fun??

o j, o.k.?

Well of course you should post your opinion, even if it's one that disagrees. This board is about conversation, not a show of hands on who agrees with the OP.

I don't shy away from giving a disagreeing opinion - in fact I'm more likely to post if I disagree with something, rather than add just another "me too" to the agreement collection.

What I am bothered by though, are people who think if someone posts something that disagrees with what they've said, then they've been "attacked". There's a big difference between being blunt and being mean, and it behooves people to be able to make the distinction.

I've seen people complaining about ruining a topic because someone added a contrary thought to a thread - like if the poster says they like raspberry jam and someone says well, you know I never did care for it. Wham - someone wants to know why it was necessary to say such a thing and ruin the entire thread. Are you kidding me?

People with such thin skin shouldn't be on the internet where millions of people are going to read and respond without worrying about whether or not their answer toes your line.

If you put it out there, it's out there - and once you hit that Send button you lose control of however and wherever the conversation goes. If someone can't deal with it, then an internet message board is probably not the best place for their blood pressure.

My two cents.