That makes me so mad. I don't think I could have remained quiet. It's child abuse just as if he'd hit them. Emotional child abuse to me is worse than physical.

OMG I probably would have been in trouble cause I am not sure I could keep my big mouth shut. I HATE bullies!

I just HATE to hear people swearing at their kids. And the kids grow up thinking that's the way you are supposed to treat other people.

i've distracted a mom more than once in a store...something simple like asking a question, just avoid a situation...

That is so sad. Those poor children born into a situation like that. Previous poster is right. A child lives what it hears.

You have to be careful not to make the parent even more mad. Then when they get to the car the child could really pay for your comments.

If that man talked like that, to the child, who we assume was his, can you imagine what he would say to someone who responded in the child's defense!

If he does that out in public, what does he do in private.
Clare

I wonder how many children are treated like that and worse behind closed doors. vique

Not too long ago, I was at the grocery store ordering from the deli and the "lady" in front of me started talking to her little one in that tone, saying sh-- and d--- and the little one just turned around and answered using the same words....I just can't imagine ever talking to my kids like that...Heck I don't even talk to my DH like that!

Why didn't you???????? Talking about it here isn't going to help those poor children. Please do something next time.

Well I always try to engage someone like that in conversation attempting to keep my voice neutral and non judgmental. For example, "rough day huh?" Now if he was going on and on threatening and ranting it would be different. But since nobody knew what that child had been doing before it could just have been blowing off steam however inappropriate the language.

Before everybody jumps on me, in NO WAY am I condoning the behavior. He was WRONG WRONG WRONG. But a single inappropriate tempermental outburst by a harried parent does not make him an abuser.

I don't know of one parent who has raised a child to adulthood without losing it at least once where they would have appeared like this man in deed if not in words. Unless of course they had extremely placid children who never challenged or pushed the limits.

Can't say I've ever told my kid's I'd knock the sh@t out of them,, even on my worst days. I'm no saint. I have my bad days too but that kind of talk to little children is not just a bad day. You can be fairly certain, they hear that message more than we can stand to know.

I've seen that in Wal-Mart several times. I really think that the store should have sent a Manager up to that parent and told them that their behavior is unacceptable and will not be permitted in the store.

I have also confronted the parents only to be sworn at!
Now I go or call in a manager and tell them that they should not let this happen in their store. I have also followed the person around and stare them down. Sometimes it helps. That parent was most likely treated like that when they were a child.

Seems like our society accepts bad public behavior. It's a shame.

I see both sides of this situation. Yes, you do feel as though you need to say or do something to stop the abuse. Then again, you don't know what reaction you'll get from the parent. It could be retaliation against you, or like someone else said, they take the child to the car and then "get back at them" for the embarassment.

I've taken the passive/agressive stance before and just glared at the parent until they stop. Also, don't think it's a bad idea to contact a manager or an employee and tell them about the bad language. That, alone, should be enough for them to be able to talk to the parent about their behavior.

It's like I always say, "They act as though they resent the very air that their children breathe!" Why, oh why do people have them if they're not gonna appreciate them!?

I know this isnt the same thing at all but I fondly remember some 40 years ago when a stranger spoke up in my defense at a department store. Two of my sisters never called me by my name but only referred to me as "Tubby". My then teenaged sister got a lecture about cruelty and a childs self esteem after calling me that in front of another customer. It shut my sister up (momentarily) and made me realize that it wasnt right or normal to be constantly verbally abused. Being called Tubby was mild compared to most of the verbal abuse from my mother and siblings.

why do some feel it is appropriate to confront others in our forum about how "they handled a situation" seems like I have seen this "mission statement" here very often
..

"This is a place where you can chat about topics not covered by the other forums. Like, why is one leg of the table always shorter than the other three?"

I really don't think Linda in Iowa was looking for that, nor would I have been....shame on you if your guilty!

My cousin and her mother lived with us when I was growing up. Her name for me was, "Fat"....Tubby probably would have seemed nice to me. Now, she's fat and I'm slim, but I can't seem to make myself get even with her :o) I still remember the hurt it always caused, though. I guess we've gotten off the track here a little, but I think it made me much more aware of how words can hurt.

lol, Maybee, Your a good person. Oh, I would have to bite my tongue soooo hard! I hope you don't have to see your cousin very often or hopefully she has changed for the better. Isn't it something how words as simple as that, do hurt and linger in our minds forever. At least you learned from that, something positive.
Lately, because I've been horse back riding more, my motto has been Pain is guaranteed, suffering is optional...
I like to remember that we have choices....

Emotional child abuse to me is worse than physical. I agree,you just don't see the scars.

Double what Vannie and clubm said. I know from personal experience. My heart aches for those children.

I once was in a store with my two daughters. They misbehaved, funny I don't remember anymore what they did, but I flipped out and started to curse at them. An older woman touched my arm and said in a very kind, gentle voice "I know they can make you so mad, but they're just little children. I know it's hard." I was shocked and embarassed. I instantly calmed down and got control. That only happened once. I wasn't physically violent, but I did NOT have control of myself. I am so glad she spoke to me. It stopped my tantrum and brought me back to "normal". I was so glad she did what she did. I can only hope the mother gets her kids away from that bully. And fast.

I feel I should say something here... and I don't have a clue why as I will probably get told how "bad" of a Mom I am.. but I have to be honest. I am a single mom of two girls... 10 and 4... and.. honestly.. they antagonize the hell out of each other most of the time! Don't get me wrong.. all in all they are both very good girls (especially for everybody else but me.. it seems.. lol) but after working all day (some days BOTH jobs) it's very hard to hear that...

AND.. I know alot of it has to do with a "lack" of discipline" (which is kind of a "catch 22") if you know what I mean... sometimes... I definitely lose my temper with them. They just don't listen sometimes if I don't..

And by losing my temper ... I mean .. saying things like.. YOU TWO BETTER KNOCK IT OFF CAUSE YOU'RE REALLY PI$$IN ME OFF AND I MEAN IT...OR ... THAT'S IT, I'VE HAD IT AND I'M COUNTIN TO THREE...

(yes.. I've said pissin to my girls b/4.. and d@mn.. and $hit..)

Maybe.. I'm the only one out there who falls sooo short of bein the "perfect" mom... but..

I try my hardest... every single day.

Just bein honest.

OMG Linda......when I was a checker for Benner Tea Company in Fairfield, Iowa I had an encounter like THIS in 1973!

LUCKLY, there was a county Social worker behind the accused customer. She asked to use the phone and obviously called the local police and reported the customer/the grocery store as well as me. The parents were livid when the Police Officers arrived and the "dad" threatened" me, which the officers jumped on.

However, the dad sat outside the market for a week..the night manager always walked me out!

I think ... I hope ... that I would get involved, probably by saying something to the parent.

However, I hope that it would be rather gentle and diplomatic, for I'm not too worried about the parent giving me a seriously hard time ...

... but I agree with the person who said earlier that it could be that the man's frustration ... and embarrassment ... might be taken out on the child, later. Which would be even worse than if I'd taken no part in the issue, it seems to me.

I wonder whether I might follow them when they left the store, at least for a distance, to attempt to find their address, to add to my report to the police.

While the police might not take substantial action as a result of what I might report ... if they had had similar reports on this person earlier, it would add to their information about the situation.

I would like to help make things better for the child, rather than taking action that might cause him more trouble.

One idea that occurs to me is that, having followed the man home, I wonder whether it would be helpful for me to go home, then return after a few hours to ask the man whether he could spare me a couple of minutes, as I had a concern about something about which I would like to talk to him.

If he refused, I might tell him that it related to his talk to his son in the store that afternoon, which I considered to be close to emotional abuse and that if he did not wish to discuss it, that I thought that I should make a report either to the police or to Children's Aid.

ole joyful

That looks good on paper (computer) ole joyful, but I don't think I would want to confront someone with an attitude like that in his home. I think you might end up flat on the porch.

Jannie and Nicki thank you for being brave enough to post honestly about your experiences. It makes the point that even the most loving and best of intentioned parents can sometimes just "lose it". There are some children that are also very very good at pushing mom or dad's buttons. Of course the parent is the adult who should always rise above it but in real life parents are just people too. Lucky are those who have never been really tested by a strong-willed child.

I can only hope the mother gets her kids away from that bully. And fast.

Why would you not give that man the same benefit of the doubt that the lady gave you?

Hi marygailv,

Your suggestion is one that one should consider, but usually I approach someone in such a circumstance with the attitude of let's look at an issue and discuss it sensibly.

If he were belligerent ... I can move rather quickly, when necessary.

Perhaps you may have read of my having dealt with such an experience recently, on my way to the Prairies.

About 6:00 one morning near Bemidji in northern MN, I was following a guy with only one tail light ... and when he braked to turn, only one brake light, as well (none in the back window, as a number of more modern cars have).

I followed him, and he turned into a factory almost immediately, followed him on a winding course around a couple of buildings and stopped in front of his car when he parked.

He sat for a bit.

I sat.

Then I got out, he got out.

I told him that he had only one brake light, and he said that he knew that.

I added that I doubted that it was just a bulb, as usually when a bulb blows, it's only one of the filaments, but that both of his in that light were out.

To which he asked me how I'd like to mind my own business.

We were several feet apart at the time.

I lifted my arms, spread my hands and said that I was just trying to be helpful, climbed back into my car and drove away.

As I drove down the road, I thought that maybe I should have suggested to him that, as I lived at least 800 miles away, that it was no skin off of my nose ... but that if he were driving somewhere next week and a deer ran in front of him ... he'd be hitting the brakes ... fast, and hard.

If his other light had blown and someone were following him, not being informed of what he was doing, he might well run into the back of his car.

If the driver with the lights out were killed, his family would have the expense of burying him, but he would have been the authour of his own misfortune. If, however, he were left too disabled to work again, they'd have to put a roof over his head, feed him, and possibly finance substantial medical and drug costs, over a number of years - a very expensive proposition.

If someone in his car were injured or killed, he'd have done something really bad to that person.

If the person in the following car were injured or killed ... that would have made the mechanical condition of his car today ... everyone's business.

What might have been the result, had I spoken to him that way?

Good wishes for keeping your body, mind and psyche intact: I hope to achieve such with mine, also.

ole joyful

I don't know... no one asked, what was the kid doing? Maybe he was doing something that could really hurt him --standing up in the cart and trying ot tip it or maybe even trying to steal candy. I just don't really see how getting involved in these cases will help. First off, you don't know the background. Maybe the man just found out he had cancer, maybe the kid has ADHD, maybe, maybe, maybe. Sorry, but I don't think the police are going to arrrest him or even care about what he said. Now, if he actually beat the kid, that's a whole different thing. In my opinion, his phrase was more along the line of cursing, I find that often has more to do with class than real abuse. Not that it's ever right, I'm just not seeing that it's the end of the world and we don't know how often he yells like this.

If he is an abusive a-hole, nothing you say is going to help and you probably will just escalate matters. If he has a real excuse, and is a nice guy, you may make him feel guilty, but it probably won't keep him from loosing his temper again.

The real bad abuse is the subtle stuff. The father who calmly calls his kid an idiot all the time, or consistantly implies they can't do anything right. That will tear a kids esteem apart, but most people won't pick up on it as abuse. Some guy yelling when his kid is acting up can be related but is often a whole nother ballgame.

Well, I don't view that as child "abuse". Yes, the wording was objectionable. But no one knows what the child had been doing beforehand.

I have yelled at my son in stores, and yes, I mostly regret it. But I don't regret all of those instances. Sometimes he needed to be brought up short, because his behaviour was both unacceptable and/or dangerous to his safety.

The wording over the top, but yelling at a child is not abuse.

I see a lot worse abuse in stores every day. The parent who is afraid to yell, afraid to remove the child,afraid to set boundaries and afraid to parent. The type of abuse that ends up with the parent standing next to his child in a juvenile courtroom before a judge by the time the child is 11 or 12.

I call that neglect. What the man said to the child was abuse. I know what abuse is, been there.
From reading Linda's post, there were many people who felt the same as her and her impression was that he also looked mean. She had a gut feeling and decided not do anything.
Since I work in the school system, I'm often in the presence of what I FEEL is abuse but tell myself not to assume the worst. Given enough time the abuse will be confirmed by the staff and I feel bad for not believing in myself. More often than not, my gut feeling is correct. The abuse is often the kind that CPS can not determine easily. Neglect is a big problem too. Kids who's parents are never there for them. Don't help them with homework or feed them proper meals. Somedays I cringe when a little kid starts blurting out about his families problems. I would be embarrassed if I were them but most likely they don't even care.
I personally don't feel there is a good enough reason to tell a child you would kick their butt they way he did. I suppose if the child was a teenager and the dad said it in a laughing way, to make a point, that would be a different story. Children repeat what they are told, trust me they do. Last year I heard a third grader threaten a classmate just that way. This kid is always a bully. I know where he gets this kind of talk.

Jannie and Nicki, I also have to say thanks. I too am far from perfect in that I've said things that I've regreted. And often. And I love my children so much that I rushed out of the house yesterday with tears in my eyes because an ambulance was at the end of our block and my two older girls were playing next door. Thanks goodness they were okay (an older neighbour had been hit by a car on his bike-he's fine), but I was weak-kneed and shaky. I have ALWAYS wanted to be a mom and I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE them- but sometimes I crack.

I experienced the single mom lifestyle for four months. It took ages to sell our house and Jason had to start his new job before it sold. During the week it was just me doing everything for my three girls (ages at that time were 7, 4, and 6 months). Helping with homework, nursing my baby every few hours, trying to play with my pre-schooler, making meals, walking to the bus-stop, EVERYTHING and all of it on only a few hours of disjointed sleep. It was winter and the second night we started doing this the furnace died. It was -27 C that night, none of the so-called 24 hour emergency repair places would answer, and I was frantic. I piled every blanket on the older girls and tried to sleep with Evelyn on the couch while both her and I wore toques. I needed to sleep on the couch because I had the oven on full blast with the oven door open for warmth. It was a crappy night. They fixed it at 1pm the next day.

I also dealt with a toilet that wouldn't flush (and I'm not handy) and a four hour power outage which again was when it was -20 something C and freaking cold in the house.

I had no breaks (except for the weekend when Jason would come back home) and no time to do anything that I wanted that was just for me. It was stressful and horrible and eroded most of my patience in the first month. I yelled at the kids and occasionally screamed at them. I explained to them that it was just me and they needed to try to help me out by getting along. Well, they are after all kids and they weren't helpful for that long. I would have been absolutely horrified if anyone had heard me and judged my parenting and love for my children at one of the worst times in my parenting life.

We have been all together for four months now and I still yell. I'm working on it. My middle girl is exceptionally spirited and we clash. I'm working on being a better mother everyday.

I just hope that the next time someone overhears someone else saying something mean that maybe they will stop and think about all of the background story that may be present. There is often much more to the story than you may think. I hope that by sharing my story and point of view that I won't become a KT outcast because coming here is such a bright spot to my day.

Sometimes flawed people are still good people.

Danielle

The really sad thing is that these weren't the parents, they must have been the grandparents or great grandparents. The couple looked to be in their late 60s but could have been a bit younger and just had a hard life.

That is sad. Makes you wonder where the parents are that this older couple would be out with both children that young. Speculation says maybe a pattern of bad parenting that landed grandpa and grandma with the kids. I never could understand why the courts allow custody to grandparents when their own kids are in jail for drugs etc. If they didn't do such a hot job with their own kids why let them have a second chance with their grands?

I used to cashier at Wal-Mart, and a woman picked up her child by the arm once and pulled her out of the cart. They kid was screaming holy murder, I guess because it hurt her, and I told her "That was uncalled for, what you just did to your child." She said "It's not your kid", and I said "I wish she was, because I would never treat her like that." She looked embarrassed after that, but then when she was leaving, I saw her hit the child no the arm for some reason.

I had seen so much abuse, and the store managers wouldn't do anything about it.

Well, not to excuse the people in this situation but when I was growing up I was often threatened with a 'licken' if I didn't behave. I didn't always behave but honest to goodness, I don't ever recall either of my parents ever laying a hand on me. I don't think I even thought they would give me a 'licken' but I did think I would be in some kind of trouble. It was just the phrase they used to mean business and back then, parents could actually spank children even though mine didn't. It was still on the table - no one would call CPS on your parents. So maybe I did think it might happen - maybe they thought they might actually do it if they had to.