There are some things is this world that always leaves me sitting there shaking my head. I can't understand why you can not be taken at your word. My sis had one baby, she knew she didn't want any more and had a heck of a time convincing the Dr to tie her tubes after she gave birth. She got the same argument abt her hubs having a clip job, but they nixed that for the same reasons of yours. I don't understand why the Med. community feel they have to be big-brother, and not let people make their own decisions.

Sure flies in the face of logic when you consider that there is no shortage of dr's who will perform medically unnecessary c-sections, hysterectomies, breast enhancements, tummy tucks, face lifts, nose jobs, etc.

Back in the 80's we were still coming off the "paternalistic" mode of health care. Thirty years later, we've come a long way from that approach, but voluntary tubal ligation for the childless... not so much.

I think a doctor makes "more" money on you and your future business if he doesn't tie your tubes....right? So it's NOT about what's right for the patient.....

I spoke to a young women who said she was on "the pill". She didn't think it worked, she just gave birth. I looked at the acne on her face and asker her....have you been taking tetracycline for your acne? Yes...how did I know? It counter acts the pill.....no one told her.....

I have a friend who had a vasectomy in his early twenties (this was over 20 years ago) and his doctor required the wife to come in and voice her agreement.
I wonder if that still happens today for vasectomies for childless younger men.

Yep, about 6 years ago DH had a vasectomy. I found out a few months ago that the urologist gave him a hard time because we did not have kids. I guess DH was afraid of what I would say to the MD had I known he was questioning our decision (I tend to voice my feelings, lol).

One reason I did not have trouble getting the uterine ablation last Spring was because DH had already had a vasectomy. Since getting pregnant after an ablation can be fatal, the GYN wanted to make sure we had a "solid" protection plan. Not sure what would have happened if he wasn't "fixed" but I went into the GYN office saying "I want a hysterectomy!!!!". The ablation was a nice compromise between stopping my problems and a short recovery. Of course, had the recovery taken much longer (it was almost 4 weeks instead of the expected 1), we would have discussed a hysterectomy anyway.

Just my opinion, but I'd rather see a happy couple with no kids than a miserable family with. Also, having tubes tied is sometimes reversible. Thirdly, there are plenty of kids of all ages in foster care waiting for good homes. Regarding doctors, no, they don't know everything. Why would a doctor refuse to operate on a young woman when he/she can count on several wanted/unwanted pregnancies to deal with down the line? More money?

jasdip, good for you in recognizing what you want or don't want in this case and following through with it. There are a lot of things that needs to be changed about our society. My main complaint at this period in my life is...there is no assisted suicide. Three states now have it so there is some progress. I was battling two doctors about not taking preventative meds. I have found one now that accepts the fact I do not want to outlive my memory and allows me to make decision about my care without nagging.

Hubby and I discussed whether or not we would have children before we married. We both decided that since I already had one, and he had two, that we really didn't want to start a whole new family. So, he went and had his "clip Job" done while he was single. He was 44 at the time and I was 29, so no fuss no muss.. Maybe for couples that are under 25, they might figure the maturity factor in too. But on the other hand, I know folks that are far more mature at 21 than some are at 71.. so I reckon it would have to be well thought out on an individual basis..

We have never regetted our decision..

Kitt

For myself, I can't begin to imagine not having my children BUT I have such respect for those that say they don't want kids and don't have them. Motherhood or fatherhood is not for everyone. If a person wants something done to prevent it they should be able to do so. We do live in a free country...

In the same situation my mom had problems getting her tubes tied after she had 2 children but was only 23 and they did not want her to have it done. They made her go to a psychologist before and he kept asking her what if something happens to one of your children. DUH

LOL it is a free country but freedom is greatly helped by being cash laden :-) especially w/ our pathetic healthcare system. i have wanted for 24 yrs to get my tubes tied to no avail. i should have done it 20 yrs ago when paying upfront for the surgery was much cheaper. now i actually need a hystero due to severe endometriosis and PCOS but insurance still won't pay, docs & i have been dealing w/ insurance co for 2 yrs on this. my dh did volunteer to get snipped (and did all his follow up appts to) so that i would get off depo-provera shots which were ruining my health. he paid a $15 office visit, i signed a release saying i was good w/ it and went to the appt (gleefully i might add LOL) we had no problems :-)

i did not even bother to date someone who thought they would want kids, why waste the time? i've known my entire life i did not want kids, i wanted freedom to do what i want. i have never regretted my decision, i'm 42, i am sooo happy w/ our lives. i have a niece & nephew who are 5 who adore us that i can spoil, that works great for me.

i must say that self-responsibility goes a long way to preventing pregnancies LOL mixing antibiotics and pills is as well known as antibiotics don't help viruses. most don't do research on the meds they take but if they did, they would find that the effective rate for pills is much lower in actual usage. the rates 'advertised' are achieved in clinical trials where diet, exercise and every aspect of your day/life is controlled. the discrepancy is around 20%. that fact alone kept me from solely using the pill as birth control since i did not ever want kids.

one last thing...this past june we were up visiting my sis, BIL and kids when my nephew asked why we didn't have kids :-0 we said we wanted to be better aunts/uncles etc...and had dogs instead LOl. insightfully paul says "grandma & granpa wheeler (his dad's parents) don't have kids either they have dogs too" (LOL) "it's really sad" LOL...love it! wish i had a recording of that! ~ liz

I'm shocked that more of you didn't mention the fact that though it's hard for a woman to get their tubes tide because they choose not to have babies it's a piece of cake for any woman to choose to kill/abort an unborn child they didn't want in the first place. No questions then like "are you sure you won't change your mind later?"
Not to mention there are so many other things these same doctors could, at the very least, recommend to keep a woman from becoming pregnant. Of course down the road we may find these "things" were unhealthy to the woman, so why in the world don't they just give these young women what they want? I'm at a loss.

It's not like that here in Southern Ontario, I have several friends who have had their tubes tied, and one requested a hysterectomy for the purpose of not having children (which I thought was overkill). None of them had any trouble getting it done, and none of them had to have permission or approval from their husbands. When I had my ablation, the doctor didn't ask about my husband. He did, however, block my tubes to prevent the possibility of the eggs becoming fertilized. He said they always do that here.

I'm a firm believer that people who don't want kids should not have them. Children completely change your life and it's no easy road. Why do people insist on telling others what they should want?

This whole thing smacks of the "don't worry your pretty little head over it" attitude. The doctor knows better than you what's best for you since you are nothing but a feeble female. UGH!

I do have a friend who had her tubes tied in the hospital directly after having her second child. AFAIK no one gave her a hard time about it, the doctor just did it. And that was about 15 years ago.

I have two kids by the way (now 20 and 22) and I love them dearly but I can completely understand that not everyone wants kids and certainly that not everyone should have them!

I don't know where you're referencing that it's a "piece of cake" to abort a fetus, but it sure isn't so around here. Plus you factor in the nutcase people opposed to womens' rights it makes that statement all the more laughable. Obviously this can't be discussed more lest the FGs will go crazy so I'll end it here.

I'm a member of an online childfree group, and there are many, many stories from other members who have had to go through quite an ordeal just to get a tubal ligation or a vasectomy. On the other hand, there are also many stories about doctors who immediately say, "If that's what you want, then we'll do it." So maybe the medical profession is (slowly) changing.

My husband and I have reached our mid-30's, and are happily childfree. We're planning on getting him snipped in the next year or two, and I'll be curious to see if we get any guff from the doctor about it.

Cynic, FGs? I'm lost. But then I have a migraine now so it might be clear to me were that not so.

I was 25 when I had my last child, making a total of three healthy, normal children. I knew I didn't want more, so requested a tubal ligation. The doctor didn't want to give me one, so I told him fine, I'll stay here until you do give me one. I stayed there in the hospital, with baby, for TEN days, until they finally agreed to do the procedure! My husband (at the time) and I had already signed the paperwork - it was a matter of finding a doctor that would do the procedure on someone "so young".

Can't speak for other states but an abortion is easier to get in California than a tubal for young women.

Even before Roe versus Wade it was easier. Not in the earlier decades but by the late 60's.

DH had a vasectomy in his 50's. Even though we have children and I was well into peri menopause (reason for the vasectomy) I had to sign a consent form.

When my little sister was about 5, she said some really funny things. "When I grow up, I want to drink beer and smoke cigarettes." And "When I grow up, I don't want any babies. I want puppies and kittens." She did change her mind, doesn't do the first 2 and has a dog,a cat, a daughter and a son.

what would they do if a man or woman went to the doctor and said, "I am single I have 3 children, my spouse has custody and I don't want any more kids, fix it????

You could get an abortion very easy in KS until the abortionist was murdered in church. That doctor is the one who clipped my husband long before we were married. He had no problem. Maybe it's just the doctor's personal feelings about having children, maybe he just feels it's wrong. Maybe he is catholic.

I have two friends who have not been able to find a doctor to tie their tubes. One is 44 and the other is 35. The 35 yo uses an IUD. Neither is married, both are sure they never want children.

I would guess it has something to do with society's fondness for lawsuits. Physicians want to do everything possible to avoid a malpractice suit.

I for one was not nearly as grown up at 22 as I thought I was at the time. I can easily see a young woman requesting a tubal, certain she would never want children, and then deciding ten years later that a baby is what she wants more than anything. It would seem pretty nutty for her to sue the doctor on the grounds that he should have realized this might happen, but stranger suits have been heard in our courtrooms.

In the dark ages( the 70's) when I had my children, after having 2 I requested a tubal. The Naval Hospital refused because I didn't meet their criteria! I was too young and didn't have enough children!
6 years later my IUD failed and we had another child. I love him, he has been a joy..BUT ..I still think the Navy was wrong in refusing me! Believe me I had my tubes tied then!

I have a single friend who in her late 20's/earl 30's wanted a tubal ligation - doctor would not do. She had major side effects from BCP and knew other methods were not as effective. Her doctor finally did the tubal AFTER she got pregnant and had an abortion.

Childless here also. I think it runs in my family though. My 2 sisters, 2 of my cousins, and myself have no desire to have children. When my now 18 year old nephew was growing up, my parents would babysit for him alot. I was 17 when he was born and all I remember was sleepless weekends when he was over. I think it was my mom's early form of birth control for us teenagers still at home!

LOL, Mike!

After having my son in 1985, I wanted to have my tubes tied. I assured the doctor we didn't want to have more children, but the answer was no.

I have reminded the doctor every year since that I told him I didn't want more. It's kind of a joke between us now.

Tammy

I don't know... I had a friend who swore he didn't want kids..ever.. years later he met the girl of his dreams and decided after all he did want to have kids 'with her'. He was 37 when he had his first child. It happens. Circumstances change; your prioritites change; you change you mind.

There are so many other -even longer term type birth control- methods out there. I wouldn't feel comfortable sterilizing a women at 22 even if she said she wanted it done then. Maybe I was just an immature 22 year old...but I can't imagine being able to make that life time decision at that age. There are many people who go on to change their minds about having children later in life and I think doctors take that into consideration.

I respect someone's right to not want to have kids and to plan accordingly -- but I also respect the doctors' rights to not perform a procedure they know (or think) the patient may later regret.

I think to make a conscious effort not to have children is eons ahead of those who just have them with no thought at all.
I don't think it is any of a doctor's business to second guess
what you may decide years on down the road. It is much easier here to get an abortion than a tubal, if you don't have any children. Most doctors used to require that you have three before they would tie your tubes.

Forgot to mention. When I was engaged, I went to the GYN and asked for birth control. I wanted Depo-provera because I knew I was bad about taking medications regularly even when I was sick- how the hell was I supposed to be confident in my ability to remember when I had not symptoms to remind me!!! LOL

The GYN said that since I was responsible enough not to have sex until i was married that he didn't think my logic for Depo was realistic. He told me to tape the pill container to my toothbrush so I would remember! WTF!!!! When I left his office, I told him that I was NOT happy with his advise and did nto agree with it.

I then went to my regular PCP (had been seeing him and his partner for more than 15 years). Told him what happened and he started me on Depo then and there. He knew me and knew that when I said something I was serious. If you ever live south of Atlanta, I highly recommend Dr. William Osborne (too bad he wasn't trained to handle other reproductive issues!).

I am a non-grandfather. Most likely to continue in that status, as both kids born in early 60s - that makes them dang near 50, doesn't it (even though they are unenthused about owning up to it)?

Not my choice. Wasn't consulted.

When daughter's marriage broke up, I allowed as how it was fortunate that they'd had no children, her reply was that the way things had been for the last while, one wasn't about to have any.

o j

Sue36, warn your friend to be careful using the IUD. Like whidbeykathy, I found they aren't always reliable. :)
I have a 28 year old baby to prove it. I am so glad though that it didn't work for me that time. What would we have done without him?

I know someone that had 5 kids before she was 30.She tried to get her doctor to tie her tubes after the third one.No way,she was too young.Then begged again after #5.Nope,still too young.Now she has #6 and finally got the doctor to tie her tubes after that one.I don't know if she finally reached an age where he thought it was appropriate of if he just thought she had enough kids!I think the kids have 3 different fathers and guess what? They are on welfare and have been since she had the first one.Tell me THAT makes sense!

lilliepad, something doesn't sound right, there. Just where does your friend live?? I don't know of any doctor that takes into account only a woman's age before he will tie her tubes, with the possible exception of doctors at a Catholic hospital. Are you sure she's telling you the truth?

Around here, standard procedure is have both husband and wife agree to a vasectomy irregardless if the couple is childless or not. However, it is easier to convince the doctor to do the procdeure if the couple already have children. Same for tube tying.

Its is easier to get agreement if there are underlying health concerns.

And yes, a couple should consider a future "what if" they should part company, or one of them pass away.

It can get worse. I was told i could not get pregnant when I was in my early 20's. Nineteen years later I had a miscarriage that felt like it was tearing my entrails out. Decided I could not live through that again. I told the OB/GYN I wanted my tubes tied.She liked babies and disagreed with me. I assured her. Went through the paperwork/waiting period. the day before the surgery she had me go to the lab for a full blood work-up. The next morning I went through getting my tubes tied and went home.

a week later at a follow-up with my general practitioner I found out I was pregnant with twins and the OB/GYN had acknowledged the report and failed to tell me. More blood work--Twins dead. another miscarriage.

I'll share my story about having my tubes tied, I was 32 and 3rd pregnancy in 4 years and with each succeeding pregnancy had more trouble. My body just couldn't handle things as well. When I had the #3 by c-section they tied my tubes, no consult with hubby, in fact the Dr had recommended it to us. Then fast forward 6 months and I wasn't feeling good, thought I had the flu but I knew better...yep baby 4 was on it's way. So found out when he was born that one tube reattached itself and so I had another tube tying after c-section. Now number 4 is almost 2 and I would do anything for number 5:)

Stacie

we had 2 kids, b and g, then before dh could be clipped we "oops" and omg it was b/g twins, lol...needless to say the appt was made asap..doc that did dh, did have me sign, but it was mere formality...that was 1976...one reason was his wern't reversable..he took a piece of the tube out, and reverse the direction of the remaining...

in retrospect, i'm glad i had these 2 wonderful kids. and in the end it was by choice...had a pal who was social worker and could have arranged to ligit abortion but MY choice, said no...

i'm sorry to hear that you ladies/guys are having such difficulties still...it's just not right... and as for interferring insurance co's, i'd send them the bills for unwanted kids!

Looks to me a little as though shaving daily may be less trouble ...

... well, shaving every few days, in retirement.

o j

I had my tubal ligation when I was 40 and a single mom with one child. I had no problem getting it done by my gyn. An older woman I worked with at the time had 6 kids and she said she begged her Catholic doctor for a T-L after her 4th was born, begged him again after the 5th and finally got one after the 6th. She asked me how I got so lucky to get mine after only one child.

It must be very regional, then. I mean... DH got himself clipped in 1985, and there was no problem at all. Several childless friends have had their tubes tied without any pressure or resistance from their physicians. I guess we're really lucky here.

Susan _on, I live not that far from you, and it was either Cdn Living or Chatelaine that I read the article in.

I was so surprised that the author of the article was having trouble getting approval from a doctor to perform the surgery, in this day and age.

And by the number of posts where people either are experiencing the same thing, or know people who are, that is just crazy.

Jasdip

Same here....always knew that I didn't want children and discussed this with DH when we were dating. I just wasn't born with the "motherly instinct".

Dh and I have been lucky. I was never on the pill nor did he use any protection...we liked to play what we called "Irish Roulette"...lol

So I can't give any statement about not having my tubes tied....never thought about it really. But now that menopause is in full swing I don't have to worry about that either.

SamKaren
your resident DJ