What is restruction?

I was hit with a belt exactly once as a child, so I would say it worked well! My parents doled out physical punishments when we deserved them. We weren't abused but we knew the consequences of our actions. My mom could shut us up with one glance.

A lot has changed in the last decade or so. Most parents don't believe in spanking anymore and there definitely seems to be a correlation with bratty kids. I see them all over the place and they completely ignore their parents because they know there are no real consequences. Even the threats of time out or taking away a prized possession lead to nothing but screaming because they know if they scream enough, the parents will eventually give in.

We dreaded spankings so we behaved. It didn't damage us or harm our self esteem. But, there's definitely a difference between physical discipline and abuse.

I'm shocked that over 700 people--a huge majority of those polled--believe that child abuse is an acceptable method of 'discipline'. As a parent AND teacher (one subject I taught was family living)--it's my belief that not only is physical discipline always child abuse--it doesn't teach positive lessons. It certainly teaches--it teaches children that it's okay for a bigger person to use force to get a smaller one to do his/her bidding (promoting bullying). It teaches fear. It teaches that it's okay to hurt those we love (often continuing the cycle of child abuse to the next generation). It teaches that it's okay to LET people who SAY they love us beat up on us (putting many young women in the position of not leaving abusive romantic relationships later in life since they don't realize how wrong it is). I could go on for an hour, listing the negative results that come from physically abusing a child.

I'm well aware that not everyone agrees with me. But I have NEVER hit a student nor my child. I was, however, one of the strictest parents in the neighborhood. But I used punishments that addressed the wrong I was trying to correct, punishments that taught why the behavior was unacceptable, what my child/student could have done differently, what they should do to make amends, how they would approach a similar situation in a better way in future. For that reason, they were effective. My daughter and students knew they were expected to behave--and they did. But they also knew I could be counted on to be fair, and to be there for them when they needed me, and that I would never hurt them physically or emotionally.

There are days--like today, after reading that list of responses--that I just wish I could spend a few weeks with each young parent who doesn't know any better, showing them that there are ways that you can teach your child while still respecting them, and without hurting them.

Sorry, Luann. That should have been restrictions.

I am 63 and was spanked as a child. I can say it did not happen often and I really don't have a ton of memories of spankings. We also spanked our kids but not often. I think the problem now is so many don't discipline at all. This is really sad.. We have 2 daughters and 1 son. They have given us 8 terrific grandkids. Two of them do the timeout thing and it works very well. Both Moms are elementary teachers and see so many discipline problems. Our other one has 2 with ADHD and it is more difficult.

Sadly, now kids behave badly at all ages.. For many parents it is always someone else's fault. If I got in trouble at school I knew I would be in trouble when I got home. Our kids were raised the same way. They knew what respect meant.. So many parents want to be more of a friend then a parent.. This is sad.. Some of the numbers in the survey don't surprise me in the times we are in now.

Well, however they're doing it today, it isn't working out very good, from what I've seen in public places.

When I was growing up, teachers could swat us with rulers if they wanted to. Kids behaved in class, that's for sure.

My parents never used any kind of spanking on us because they didn't need to...we did what we were told out of respect.

Well, I was hit with a belt frequently, as were my siblings. Did it make me a better person - hell^NO. I'm a reasonably well adjusted person, but I can't say the same for all my siblings, and they are carrying on the violence with their children.

The most physical discipline my son ever experienced was a slap on his hand (at 2) when he tried to grab some food from someone else's plate. He's a fine, moral, upstanding young man, working on a graduate degree and holding down a job.

Smacking a child around is NOT discipline.

Kids don't behave "more badly" now than they ever did. Many parents just don't discipline with intelligence.

I think spanking is fine,they need to know you mean what you say.My daughternlaw when shes mad its instead of 1,2,and you had better move at 3 she starts at 2waits,3
does npo good,liker I said a slap on bottom isnt gonna hurt anyone believe me I know the difference I had belts,boards,even busted a leg off a baby cradle and beat with that.I was abused when I was a child.It was 5 in the family we all got it.Locked in an attic in june while dad went to work,no food no water all day..in june

My sister works with elementary school children and she says they behave much, much more badly than we ever did as kids. She says it's actually frightening sometimes.

I'm pretty much against spanking. I understand why a person would do a tap on the bottom to get attention, on rare occasions but I do not belive it should be used as a real form of dicipline. BTW my parents did spank but not often and not with a belt. My teachers were allowed to spank and I think I'm against this the most. It does damage ones self esteem. When I was in school I can remember a few kids quitting the minute they were old enough. These kids were the ones that were spanked with a ruler the most. These kids were also the ones that I believe had learning disabilities. I remember vividly a teacher spanking students when they got too many wrong on a test or on their home work. Now what do you suppose that teaches kids. If a person, especially a teacher, had ever hit my kid I guarantee it would have been the last time.

I do agree though that kids today do not behave very well but I believe it's because parents today try to be a friend to their kid. Bad parenting long ago and bad parenting today still yields the same results.

Another reason for children acting more badly these days is that parents don't have the time to parent. Economic times being what they are, in 2 parent families both usually have to work. And there are far more single parent families than there were 'back in the day' (there wasn't a single child in my elementary class from a single parent family, and almost NONE of the mom's worked outside of the home).

When parents come home from a long, stressful day of work, and THEN have to: do the shopping, cook dinner, supervise homework, clean the house, do the laundry, take care of the lawn, do household repairs, pay the bills, get the kids to bed......... there's no time for the little life lessons moms taught daily in the 50's. Family structure and economics are right up there with the fact that many parents are afraid to actually parent, IMO

I remember if we got in trouble at school, that was *nothing* compared to the spanking we got at home. Today, kids have no respect for teachers or their parents for the most part, I believe.

I remember getting a swat with the fly-swatter. Once I think, was all it took. My brother was caught in a lie and he did get a spanking as well! I doubt if he's ever spoken a lie to this day.

I believe spanking has it's place in early childhood. A well placed open-handed smack on the bottom gets the child's attention when words don't.

I can count on the fingers of one hand how often I spanked my children. That includes a single swat or three or four. I never spanked to punish but to let them know it was serious.

Early childhood is the time to teach right from wrong and gain your child's respect. You teach them young and there is no reason to spank later. As the child matures other forms of discipline can take over such as taking away privileges. In our family it was trust. You started out with a huge bank of trust but lose that trust and it was a lot harder to get it back. Worked for us.

I think we have gotten to far with the all hitting is abuse or violence thing.

A child who has experienced being hit a time or two be it through a parent's discipline or a fight with a peer knows hitting hurts. It always cracks me up when I see a show or a parent where someone is trying to reason with a child that the child should bite or hit a playmate because it's "bad". Give the same child a taste and they will know WHY it's bad. Those same kids grow up to watch video games and later solve their arguments with a firearm. Never allowed to fight with their peers (too violent) so how the he// are they to learn the difference?

Smacking a child around and a spanking for discipline are two completely different things to me. I don't remember ever truly being spanked, and remember my stepfather threatening to use a belt more than once but only ever remember him actually doing so one time....and he missed. But it was a threat that we knew was out there to be used and we believed it was a distinct possibility! The kids today (for the most part) behave horribly so if this is an example of what sparing the rod does then I have to agree with the old proverb!

I remember spanking my daughter twice. Once we were in the fenced in back yard. I was weeding in the garden and she was on the swing set. I heard a horn honking and looked up and the gate was open. I have no idea how she reached up high enough to unlatch it but she did. It hadn't been 2 minutes since I'd seen her. She was about 2-1/2 and when I ran to the front of the house she was sitting in the middle of the street and an older lady down the street had managed to stop the car in time so as not to hit her. I grabbed her and warmed her fanny all the way into the house. Not proud of that, but I'm here to tell you she never, ever went toward the street again.

The other time we were in one of the two department stores in town (and I use the words dept. store loosely). I don't know what happened to her, but my daughter turned into a whirlwind--she ran to the back of the store and was running around underneath those circular racks that hold clothing. When I finally got her--she was running from me--I spanked her in the store. The clerks all thanked me, believe it or not. Man, she was awful that day!

I know my daughter sounds like a little brat, but she really was a sweetheart most of the time. Just those few times. It shocked me both times because it was so NOT her nature.

Let's face it, you can't reason with a 2 year old. And, obviously, no matter how careful you are, they can throw you for a loop sometimes.

If you didn't spank (and I don't mean to the extreme) how did you keep a 2-year old in control so they didn't get hurt? Or irritate the heck out of other people?

I have no problem at all with parents giving their small child a swat on the rear, and restrictions for older children. But I believe severe spankings do more harm than good.

We were hit (spanked) with a doubled-up leather belt and with a half inch diameter stick. Usually the offense that set my dad off was to whine about having to do the dishes or not having my homework done by the appointed time. To make it worse, my father was a person who did not know how to show any kind of affection. I would not recommend that kind of punishment for any child, and I have only in recent years been able to fully forgive him. He passed away in 1989.

I think a spanking is what most of these kids need today. No manner, no respect, just brats. I don't, however, condone using a belt, etc. That's abuse.

When I was in 2nd grade our teacher told us we had better behave because she had salt, pepper and vinegar in her desk. (she did too). We never knew what she intended to do with it but you'd better believe we behaved. We didn't want to find out the hard way. She probably had it for her lunch or something but it worked on behavior very well. LOL! I loved that teacher too.

Linda

Am I the only one was introduced to a "hickory" when I was a kid? And, we had a "hickory bush" with a never ending supply! LOL I was disciplined and it never occurred to me then or now that my parents were in the wrong! My sister that was born 11yrs after I was, and was never EVER disciplined. It was evident all her life and it's still evident today.

I'm all for whatever works and really don't care if anyone else approves or not. A child has to be taught that there are benefits or consequences to whatever they do. Reasoning with a child does not equal consequences. I get so sick of seeing parents try to reason with a child.

Both of my children (now ages 39 and 30) will tell you today they got their butts spanked, they were grounded, they had privilege's taken away, they had material things taken away and that they're glad we raised them the way we did! Guess it's a blessing that neither one of them suffered no emotional or mental damage! lol

This is one of those topics that always goes to hysteria. Calling spanking "child abuse" is ridiculous. Beating a kid bloody is not spanking. Rational people should be able to differentiate between such radically different things and you shouldn't have to resort to exaggeration and hyperbole.

"Physical abuse" is another inflammatory term often used. Basically some of these that go so overboard believe you should never touch a child, and that's fine. Don't grab them if they're going to fall out the window. Don't pull them out of the pool when they're unconscious. Let them grab the electric burner rather than stopping them. You'd be "abusing" them. How silly.

The other stupid part of this topic is that there is no one discipline for all children. That's where a thing called "parenting" comes in, but few know about that. A "time out" might work for one, not for another. The "dreaded" spanking will work for one and not another. Taking away TV, or something will work for one, but not another.

And my favorite is the group who think you can negotiate with kids! ROFL You can talk to them and tell them how they're disappointing you and that's going to make them behave! Yeah right! LOL And they're such proud parents with wildcat kids.

I've found you'll get more rational discussion on abortion than you will about child discipline! Hysteria and exaggeration, yes, but not to the level of the topic of spanking.

Even moderately intelligent people should realize that spanking with a belt or a paddle, or a wooden spoon is different than beating the daylights out of them with the object. A reasonable touch can often give a sound effect that can be beneficial in some cases. Believe it or not you can touch someone without injuring them. As I said, it's a topic that gets out of hand (no pun intended) so quickly.

There is a large difference with a slap on the behind and child abuse. I disciplined my toddler with a swat on the behind if his bad behavior warrented it.

I know about a beatinga...I had to be perfect. I was beaten with coat hangers, belts, and the sole of shoes, and hickories. Usually parents were mad as heck when I was disciplined, they did not take time to calm down. My father whipped me for the last time when I was 17 years old. I am ashamed I did this, but I grabbed the belt away from him and told him that if he ever hit me again I would beat him til he bled. I am very sorry for those words now, but I was not then. I grew up angry, low self esteem, and thought I hated my parents. I only hurt myself with my hate and anger, so you have to forgive and move on. The Bible says, "Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction that comes from the Lord." Ephesians 6:4 NLT

I think in general kids are so undisciplined anymore. I am just amazed. A restaurant in PA just has banned kids under 6 and I say hurray. One big fat mother was interviewed and said ..well, kids will be kids> No, Honey. That's what parents are for. Nobody wants to pay good money for a meal to have it interrupted by yelling kids. I don't believe in physical punishment. My mother used to pinch my arm when we were walking if I acted up ,and once my father slapped me across the face when I was about 7. I never forgot that, and was never really close to him the rest of his life. I don't recall ever spanking my kids but do think I slapped my son's upper thigh with my hand a few times.

Children today are not being raised in the same world that former generations were raised in. I'm not saying that parents still aren't responsible for raising their children right but it's easier to be a 'bad' parent today.

My parents said no to toys and trinkets because they simply couldn't afford them. Look at an old Sears catalog - the prices are similar to today's prices but incomes were much lower. The market hadn't been flooded with cheap foreign crap yet.

I didn't have 24 hours of cartoons or children's programming - I learned to sit and watch cartoons without blinking on Saturday mornings. If I missed a Christmas special, I didn't get a chance to watch it again until next year. If you had a short attention span, you were screwed.

The only child proofing options my parents had were Mr. Yuck stickers. We couldn't even run wild in our own homes for this reason, never mind restaurants and other public places.

And we didn't run wild in restaurants because we just didn't go to restaurants. They didn't have cheap kids menus and kids definitely didn't eat free back then (or I think we'd have gone out more often!)

Even Dennis the Menace was a polite little boy. Television and movies weren't filled with smart-ass, sarcastic kids.

I think overall we are overstimulated, overworked, overstressed and recent generations are slacking on many levels, not just child-rearing.

Let me ask a few questions here of those of you who support spanking/hitting, etc.

When you go to work, if you don't agree with your boss--do you hit him?

If you're at a restaurant, and the waiter brings you the wrong food--do you hit him?

If you get into a political discussion with your neigbhor, and find yourself completely at odds--do you slap him?

why? WHY is it okay for a big person to hit a child, but not to hit your boss, the officer giving you a speeding ticket you don't think you deserve, or salesperson who accidentally gave you the wrong change?

I truly would like to hear your reasoning on this one.

Lily, that restaurant is not that far from us and I applaud them! I have always said that instead of smoking and non-smoking I would prefer children and no children! That is only a slight exaggeration. We have requested that we be moved or have left a restaurant more than once. Children need parents, not pals, chums or friends. I pity the teachers today, their hands are tied and in many cases they have to fear for their own safety and well being.

The difference to me, Azzalea, is that parents have an obligation to teach and protect their kids. Younger kids often don't respond to anything but physical discipline. I don't think that older kids should be spanked because other punishments work better. But for younger kids, it's the parent's duty to get through to the kids. And no, you can't reason with a 2 or 3 year old. If they run off and get in a position that endangers their life, a lecture on the dangers won't serve the same purpose as a swat. I don't believe that parents can reason with children below a certain age.

I was spanked a few times as a child. I distinctly remember one at about age 5 for not listening to my mom. Yes I hated it and I cried and I was scared but you know what? It got through to me. It didn't really even hurt, but it's more the dread. And the threat of a spanking really does keep kids in line. I'm a well-adjusted adult now. I've never hit another adult or child. I don't have a propensity towards violence. I don't have poor self-esteem or harbor ill thoughts towards my parents. I'm grateful I didn't grow up to be a spoiled brat.

I was at Trader Joe's the other day and this 5 year old was running around the produce, screaming and throwing melons and avocados on the ground. I was watching the father meekly following him trying to reason. He was saying "okay let's stop now...ok seriously, let's stop...okay seriously, put that down...okay seriously now is the time to stop...it's time to stop doing that now" and it went on for about 5 minutes until the kid ran off screaming to another aisle. The kid completely ignored the dad and he didn't do anything about it other than follow him around and put the ruined fruit back on the shelves. So in my opinion, so-called "reasoning" isn't very effective.

And, as has been mentioned, there's a big difference between a swat on a diapered butt and a beating. I don't condone anyone beating anyone else no matter the age or size.

I really don't see the correlation between disciplining kids and slapping a neighbor.

Physical displicine is not the same as hitting someone out of anger or frustration.

Physical discipline IS NOT abuse. Where we got that idea I do not know. My guess is LAZY parents and quack child psychologists. Society and children are suffering because someone got this dumb idea. I have watched mothers herding kids into a parking lot with the kids running wild because all she could do was ask politely for them to hold hands..if one got hit by a car I hope they would prosecute her. She did not protect them by making sure under threat of what ever it takes to keep them holding hands and ALIVE ! When you want a child to know you are done discussing, reasoning and life just means there are times parents know best and they win if you have to physically move them, retrain them, give them a swat on the butt to be sure they know there is not gray area then that is what a parent is called to do. It is not our job to befriend them. We are to teach them, keep them safe and let them know there is an order to the world and sorry but they are not the center of it. I do not remember ever having to spank one of my three, but they knew I would if I had to. They knew what I said goes. Today they are young adults, doing well in school, no phobias, call me regularly they are NORMAL in every way. I too am a teacher and I cringe at the lack of discipline parents send their kids to school with. They are RUINING the learning environment. No one wants to deal with these self absorbed BRATS, not even other ones. #1 goal of discipline is to keep them SAFE. #2 is to make them palatable to the rest of us!! Think about it the next time you are too lazy, too weak to apply the restrictions needed. Lack of discipline is child abuse!!

I agree..there is a huge difference in beating and spanking. You tell a small child not to go in the street because the "big bad car or truck will run over them", they are not going to understand that. That child goes in the street and is lucky...a "big bad car/truck doesn't run over him"..he's going to at the least think you don't know what you're talking about. Tell him not to go in the street, he does, you bust his backside and he's at least going to understand going in the street is something that will get him in trouble. I'd rather have my childs backside hurt and him be uncomfortable for a few minutes, than dead!
I see more and more parents trying to reason with their child and in the end, the PARENT gets tired of arguing, gives in and the child wins. And that my friend sets the stage for his life.

Years ago we had company that had a little girl about 3yrs.old. At the time I had a couch that had recliners on both ends. You pushed a big button on the side and the footrest popped up. Momma was sitting on the end of the couch, kid pushed the button and Mommas feet go up. Momma says "Don't do that again" and pushes the foot rest back down. Kid hits the button again, Moms feet go up and Momma then threatens child "Don't do that again or I'll spank you" and pushes foot rest back down. Kid looks Momma straight in the eye and hits the button AGAIN. Apparently, Momma is all talk and no action, so I take over and tell the kid if she "does that 1 more time,I'm gonna get up and whoop her butt so hard her Momma would be crying" and I meant it. She didn't push the button again. And, if the Momma didn't like it she was welcome to take her spoiled brat, go home and never return. If you can't make your child behave while in MY home, I'll be happy to take over the job!

There's a show weekday mornings called "Crash Test Mommies".
It's about a husband, sibling, best friend etc that say they can do a better job of parenting than the mother.

The kids are *always* out of control with bad behaviour. Every mother says that kids are kids and with the running around to different activities, laundry cooking etc she's exhausted.

I have yet to see any kid disciplined with any authority. They wouldn't show one getting swatted on tv, but these kids need it. Every darn one of them fights, throws tantrums, runs around the grocery store, racing around the aisles. The mother, or weekend stand-in can't control them.

The one show, the kids screamed all the time, threw their toys around the house (instead of playing outside) and she said as you have more kids you get used to the noise.

I heartily disagree, discipline is sorely needed for most of the kids today.

I applaud the restaurant. I have had many meals ruined by unruly kids. My worst experience was with Red Lobster. The hostess led us to an area and then proceeded to lead in 3 families all together 6 adults and about 15 children. She seated the adults at one table and the kids had two tables. The kids were totally out of control and not once did any adult speak to them to stop their annoying behaviour. The kids were seated nearer to us than to their parents. At the end of the meal, I spoke to the hostess and told her exactly what I thought, my DH was embarrassed that I spoke to her about it and the restaurant did nothing about it at the time. A couple of months later, when we went back in though, the hostess spoke to me and told me she would be careful with seating in the future so she did get the message.

My BIL speaks up and asks to be seated with no kids. Smart man.

Plenty of folks raise great kids that were disciplined in other ways than hitting them (spanking IS hitting, just on the butt). I think it's easier to spank than to discipline in other ways that take more work, so it makes me laugh when someone says parents dont spank because they are lazy.

I personally believe that laying your hands on anyone is unnecessary and just because "my parents did it and I'm fine" doesn't make it okay when there are better alternatives. If you can discipline without physically hurting your children, why wouldn't you? It makes no sense to me.
I think kids these days are crazier because of a lack of discipline, not a lack of spanking.

This subject brings to mind, years ago I was watching the old Merve Griffin talk show and one of his guests was Rosemary Clooney, who had a number of kids. The other guest was this young single gal who was a child psychologist telling how you never strike a child, you should always calmly explain to them what you want and how they should behave. Merve turned to Rosemary and asked her if she 'talks' to her kids. With a straight face, she said, "Yes I do......but first I hit them to get their attention." The whole audience roared.

Jenn, I suspect one day when you have kids you might change your mind.

I didn't have to spank DD very often but when I did she got the message. Now her youngest is her own personal tornado. When she doesn't wan to cooperate (she's 2) you just have to say, "You want a spank?" and she says, "No." and behaves. The threat is all it takes.

My DH always tells them he wants to sit in the "no screaming younguns section."

Linda

I personally was spanked as a child, not often, mind you, but when my parents needed to get my attention, they whooped my butt and That. Got. My. Attention. Before my parents passed away, I thanked them for raising me the way they did, spankings and all. I turned out to be a real damn good person and in turn I raised my daughter the same way I was raised, spankings when needed only. It worked! She has turned out to be a wonderful, loving young lady with a good head on her shoulder.

Very interesting thread. I was swatted on the behind a few times as a kid by my mother and have no problem with that. I'm eternally grateful that I was raised to be a decent, thoughtful, respectful, responsible person. If a swat on the backside was part of what it took so be it.

Many kids today are completely out of control and I've heard lots of those nonsense adult reasoning with out of control toddler conversations. Maybe a swat on the behind would be more effective.

My DIL stated 13 yrs ago,that when she had kids,hers would be "making decisions of their own by the age of 3"..I told her then,that that was impossible,since a 3 yr old is not capable of "making decisions"..that the logic/reasoning part of the brain hasnt even began to develop.

Well,surf ahead now to 13 yrs later,and 2 kids';a 6 yr old and a 3,almost 4 yr old...who just happen to be TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL all the time that they are in her presence...looks good on her,in my opinion..she wants to "be friends" with them..she was told,you CAN be friends with them-when they are 20+ yrs of age,but not now...NOW they need discipline,structure and love,and by God,the odd spanking if called for.

My Grandson got one good clip from me on his butt one year ago..what hurt him more than that little clip, was that his Grandmother did it to him..guess what..when he is with Gramma,he is one of the BEST behaved boys around-in private AND public....and he knows,Gramma doesnt just make threats,she carries them out-- time outs? I think not...

My theory--spare the rod,spoil the child.

I just lurk here some nights before bed but thought you would all like this. Says it exactly how I feel about most kid today and more about the parents that seem to clueless about disciplining them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Permissive parents: Curb your brats

I don't like spanking, and the few times I've spanked Chloe, it made me feel like an uncreative failure that I didn't find a better way. Not couldn't, because I always could when I tried.ÃÂ

I agree with Paula_PA, though. And much of the misbehavior of kids that I see has more to do with their parents unwittingly setting them up to fail by taking them places when they're too tired or over-stimulated than with the kids' brattiness. When I was young, we mostly spent time at homes - our own or those of family members/friends - and the adults pretty much left us to our own devices except when we made to much noise or someone/something got hurt.ÃÂ

I do have to say that I don't like it when people equate lack of spanking with lack of discipline or with "trying to be friends with your child." I've never found that to be true. You can be an authoritative parent with well-behaved kids without hitting them. As I did with my mother, Chloe responds to my tone of voice and knows my expectations. And she's always been a creative, high-energy kid intent on doing her own thing.ÃÂ

And surprisingly, the majority of my friends' kids that I thought were bratty and unmanageable when they were growing up have turned into responsible adults anyway.ÃÂ

I was spanked as a kid, as were my 2 brothers, across the butt, with bare hands and a belt when the hand got sore. We all survived and grew up to be normal, healthy, happy adults with a great respect for our parents. We had a healthy fear of their authority which helped keep us out of big trouble later on. We knew if we did something wrong, there would be hell to pay at home, so I believe their spankings taught us a lot. Just talking and reasoning with us would NOT have had the same effect.

AGREE WITH FLAMEY!!! B I G T I M E !!!!!!!

Couldn't agree more with this statement from the permissive parents curb your brats article:

"We're so preoccupied with protecting children from disappointment and discomfort that we're inadvertently excusing them from growing up."

It remains to be seen what kind of culture and society we're going to end up with, with a generation of folks who think they're the center of the universe and whose parents have tried to protect them from every thing.

We seem to have a lot of folks out there now who can't cope in a "normal" way and end up coping by killing themselves or others. Not that "bullying" is a good thing but somehow people used to just deal with it without it becoming a major social issue. Maybe bullying has become more rampant - which wouldn't be surprising with a bunch of kids who have been the center of the universe.

Well, 40 years ago, back when bullying wasn't a major social issue, my sister dealt with it by cutting school and cutting herself. A good friend dealt with it by throwing up several times a day at the thought of school. All nice and quiet. I don't see how that was a better solution than bringing it out in the open to talk about it.

When I was about 3, when a crew of about a dozen neighbours had gathered to help get our grain threshed, one told Dad, who was arranging the straw on the strawstack, that I was out on the highway.

As Dad started down from the strawstack, someone told him that Mom was running down the sideroad toward the highway ... so Dad, knowing that the issue was being dealt with, went back up on the strawstack.

Mom, who, with some neighbour wives, had been busy making dinner for the threshing crew, found me sitting in the middle of a major highway, which, though one of the few that was paved in the early '30s, wasn't heavily travelled. Having yanked me off of the road, on the way back to the house, she pulled a small sapling from some bushes by the road and used it on my legs, to impart the message that what I'd been up to - was no good!

I remember getting a strap from Dad a couple of times, once with his belt in the woodshed and once in the yard, with a a narrow piece of leather.

He'd said that each of the boys' behaviour would slip some, bit by bit, until it became unacceptable, at which time it was necessary to give him a tuning up. Enough to get our attention, but I would not call it a beating. It did result in a major improvement in our behaviour, though.

Some time ago, in a discussion with our kids, I asked whether they'd been spanked ... and they didn't remember. I didn't, either. I imagine that they got a slap, from time to time, but never anything that many would consider a beating.

I think that I was a bit more inclined to discuss various possible outcomes of this behaviour or that and I remember at least once that Sue said that I should just tell them what to do. Could be that she may have received similar advice from me?

ole joyful

P.S. Google ad: "Disciplining Your Child", "Step-by-step program for changing your child's behaviour. Try it now!" by "www.TheTotalTransformation.com".

o j

P.P.S. Our local radio had a discussion the other day about the restaurant in PA that was banning kids under 6 ... and a number said that they were tired of having a nice dinner out spoiled by (an) unruly kid(s) that was doing pretty well shat s/he/they liked ... sometimes with some (ineffectual) attention by the parent ... sometimes without.

o j

I don't believe in spanking. I was always spanked as a child. My mom once slapped me across the face for talking back. Another time when I was about 12 she beat my behind and legs with a brush because she was mad at me. I remember vividly that I thought she was going to kill me. My dad would spank me with the sole of his leather slipper. I had very, very low self esteem as a child and young adult. All these spankings were because my parents lost their tempers. I know many young children now who are very well behaved most of the time and have never, ever been spanked. I also know some terribly behaved kids whose parents just yell and threaten but never give the kids time outs or talk to them rationally about their behavior. I truly do believe that spankings are child abuse from lazy parents who really have not learned much about parenting.

I think and I see it with my grand sons the mom says stop he keeps on, stop he keeps on, a third...one slap on the butt he knows I better stop shes mad.
Abuse I know what abuse is, a few examples I was beaten one time,he never knew when to stop,he said Ill put welts on your butt you wont sit for a week,he did,
another I was 20 min late getting in from a date ,mom was at work,he pulled my hair out ,banged my head on a metal pipe in our kitchen,beat the daylights out of me,I had hair pulled out I had big lumps on my head from banging it on the pipe,he held my hand over a burner while on high heat. and told Ill put your hand on there next time,
I said a bad word once he poured a whole can of red pepper in my mouth,held me down while doing
I choked,vomited.Besides the names he called me yes I know the difference beteen dicipline and abuse.

Bulldinkie..I'm so sorry you endured that kind of treatment! (((((Bulldinkie)))))

I was spanked as a child and spanked my kids there is a difference in abuse and spanking......I don't think todays for of timeouts etc. work on some kids maybe on some kids not...but parents have to know what a spanking and what is abuse is.....a huge difference!

(((Bulldinkie)))

Hi Grinch.

I was spanked and have no problem with it, provided it is a rational approach. I think a light tap on the bottom when they are very young is an attention-getter (like reaching for a plug).

But, having said that, I think the same results can be achieved with timeouts. The thing we are not seeing today is consistency and follow-through.

It becomes abuse when a parent waits too late in age or they let a childs misbehaviour go on too long until the parent is enraged.
I believe it important to have your emotions under control when discipling.

There will always be discipline and consequences in this world. There will always be someone telling you what to do. (taxes, speed limits, bosses,- endless list).

This is where I think we are in trouble with the next couple generations. They are being taught all is equal, everything should be fair. It is just not true. You have to work for rewards. (cleaning dishes= extra half hour tv, landing a big sales account = bonus)

I could go on and on.