It does seem to be an odd request, doesn't it! I don't have a clue what could be done with someone else's birth certificate ... except maybe a life insurance policy? I just don't know.

The only thing I can think of is applying for a passport. I never had to use my Mom's birth certificate for anything. Marriage certificate yes, but never a birth certificate.

Anne

Did you ask your sister why whe needed it? If she does not have a copy, maybe she was putting her family records in order.

Your sister could purchase a copy herself by contacting the county clerk where your father was born.

Your father may be deteriorating, but he still knows how to "pass the buck" when your sister asked for a copy from him. He referred her to someone else.

"Your father may be deteriorating, but he still knows how to "pass the buck" when your sister asked for a copy from him. He referred her to someone else."

And that could show that he has concerns about why she would need it.

Hi Susan...
A lot of things could be happening that could possibly require a birth certificate for your father. For example, what kind of OHIP card does he have? The old style red & white one or a newer one with his picture on it? If he has the old style R/W, he will need proof of citizenship to get it updated & the requests go out daily from the Ministry of Health. His citizenship can be proved by using a Cdn birth certificate, a Cdn passport (can be expired by up to 5 yrs), a permanent residence card, a valid work permit, etc. If he has an old card & a request for reregistration goes out to him, he must reply by the time the 3rd notice goes out or his coverage is suspended.

Also, I believe you need a birth certificate to apply for pensions.

Anyone can apply for a birth certificate for another person as long as they know the answers to a few questions and have $35.

I would suggest you just ask her why she needs it. If she doesn't come up with a good excuse (ie: something that could cause your father stress if it isn't taken care of), then just tell her to go whistle.

I'm going to email my sister and ask her why she wants it, but she's pretty dishonest so I can't really rely on any answer she gives me.

Smilin, my dad still has the red and white card and he doesn't have a passport, but he's mentioned that he doesn't need it. He's 84 and has no plans to leave Canada. His pension is in place already. Now, were you saying that the Ministry randomly sends out requests for reregistration? I know they used to do that, but with this government it changed and they stopped. At least I think that it stopped with this government. I could be wrong about that though. Mind you.. if that was the case, he would have told me, as I talk to him at least once a week and he always tells me that stuff.

It will be interesting to see what he has to say about this. I'm going to call him on my lunch hour today.I know he doesn't really trust her either, but knowing him, I would have thought he would have called me about this. Half the time what she says isn't anywhere near the way things really happened.

My blood ran cold when I read your post.

DO NOT GIVE YOUR SISTER YOUR DAD'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE. There are any number of things an untrustworty person could do with it.

It is true that birth certificates, being public records, can be acquired by pretty much anyone, so your sister can get her hands on it if she really wants. But don't help her.

Look, I've told parts of our story many, many times. SIL stole over a quarter of a million $$$ from my MIL. THe reason she was able to get her hands on so much money was that like most people--we didn't believe that any one would do that to their own mother.

I'd STRONGLY advise that you not wait until something tragic happens to your father or his finances--get to a good lawyer now, and find out how best to protect him from ANYone who might try to take advantage of an older man who isn't quite in charge any more. Your sister is an amateur--or she wouldn't have alerted you by asking for the BC, she'd have just run to city hall and picked up a copy--but there are people out there who prey on the elderly who are experts at separating them from their $$$.

Please, please don't wait until it's too late. PLEASE if you care about your father at all, don't worry about embarrassment, or the few $$$ it will cost to do the right thing now before a tragedy hits. Get the legal advice you need before you're trying to mop up a huge, expensive mess later.

My thoughts and best wishes are with you--Have been there, and know that it's very, very hard to deal with a family member who is less honest, less caring than your parent deserves. Hang in there, though--he needs you.

He might need a birth certificate to prove his Citizenship, for a passport to travel outside the country, for a pension or some veterans benefits. Don't give it to her till you know what she is after.

I am not sure why your sister would need his BC. But a huge red flag went up sent from your father for her to ask you for it.
If it looks like a rat, walks like a rat..........
Let us know after you talk to him today. I am worried that she might be up to no good. Azzalea has a good message above for you.

Trin

I agree with what azzalea said, especially about you getting a lawyer. One of my relatives did not take our advice on this until it was too late. Her elderly mother was coerced by a sibling into making major changes in the will, and now it is too late to do much about it.

DON'T give it to her, please! I saw a huge red flag when I read your post, even before reading Azzalea's response. I don't know what she could do with it, but there shouldn't be any honest NEED for it. I agree with Jemdandy, your dad was "passing the buck", to keep her from getting it from him. He knows you will deal with her in the way it needs done. Please keep us updated.

Tami

Well, I'm listening to Azzalea for sure. I emailed my sister and asked her what she needed it for, and she wouldn't say... she just said "for paper work I'm doing". My sister has pretty much ignored my dad since his wife died. My step mother used to sneak money to my sister, who is basically a grifter. My dad put a stop to it when step mother went into hospital and he found out. Lately, she is having more contact with him, but I'm sure she's trying to get her hands on what little he has. Then she will abandon him and we will take care of him, of course, because he will be cleaned out.

I will call a lawyer right now.

Susan, you go girl!! Your sister is up to no good quite obviously. If you talk to your dad today, please warn him, especially not to sign anything.

Trin

You're subsequent post sounded even more familiar to me, I'm sorry to say. SIL was the one who was always coming to the inlaws because she 'didn't have enough money to buy food for the kids' (mind you, her husband made over $100,000 a year!!!). There is always the question, when an adult child is so strapped for cash when there is plenty of money coming in... where is the money going? Drinking? drugs? gambling? some other addiction?

I'm just so very sorry you're having to go through this.

Petaloid--about a family member getting a will changed, so there was nothing that could be done? Don't be so sure. SIL did that with her parents (she would have gotten everything, the 3 other siblings nothing), and there WERE things that could be done--we were able to have the wills tossed out. MIL had Alzeimers, for one thing. For another, the misappropriation was so extensive, that as soon as we got the paperwork to the court (before the hearing, even) the judge immediately put a stop to her accessing the money, and installed a very nice, honest lawyer to administer MIL's finances--without his generous help, MIL would have run out of funds to support her about 6 years before she died. Anyway, back to the will thing--it does depend upon the circumstances, of course, and the jurisdiction, and the kind of help you get from the court system, but don't give up until you've spoken to a really good lawyer about the problem.

I will add this--fixing this sort of problem after the fact can run into big $$$. In our case? We've spent in the neighborhood of $20,000 fighting for MIL. That was money we really couldn't afford to spend on lawyer fees, but it was money we couldn't afford NOT to spend, if you catch my drift. I truly do believe it would have been a lot cheaper, if we'd realized there was a problem sooner. But you can't beat yourself up too much for trusting people you've known and loved all your life, can you?

Absolutely don't hand it over to her. Sounds like trouble.

Maybe you could visit your Dad and persuade him to move to your location so you can keep an eye on him and his affairs.

Good luck.

Tammy

Update:

I spoke to my father who said he hasn't spoken to my sister in a few weeks. He said she only asked him about his b/c once and that was a few years ago. She said she needed it to get her passport, however I know that she does not need it to get her passport and I also know she has one already anyway. He said he's not concerned because she can't "do anything with it if she had it anyway".

Then, about 5 hours ago, I sent a response to her statement that she "needs it for paperwork that she's doing". I asked her "what kind of paperwork?" She hasn't answered, which is very unlike her.. she lives on the computer and she always answers right away- responding to our various f/b posts mostly. Actually, I know she's on the computer today, because I've seen her posting on my other niece's page.

But my brother sent an email to a friend of his who is a lawyer, and his friend said that he can't think of anything that she could use a b/c for that would harm my father. However, I can't get past the thought that she's lying about all this for a reason.

Trin, I'm trying to get my father to move down here. The house across the street is going up for sale, and I offered to buy it for him to live in. He considered it, and then ruled it out. My one brother, who is a twin, may move there reluctantly, to keep an eye out for him. My other brother (the other twin- I have five brothers) is going there at the end of July, and we're going to see if we can get my dad to agree to have this brother have power of attorney.

Perhaps she is being evasive simply because she knows it will upset you?

That is quite possible, WC.

Consult an attorney. Maybe you should begin the process to get power of attorney for your dad. This will give you control over his finances.

Has your dad made a will and/or appointed an executor of his estate? This should be done also. Some poeple balk at the idea of making a will thinking this is a sign of giving up, but it is not. It is a precautionary step for the "just in case" event. Nine years ago my wife was scheuled for cancer surgery. That spurred us to finally do what we had talked about for the last 5 years - we both made wills. Well, that was 9 yrs ago and thankfully, we both are still here as well as the wills. The wills are there for that untimely event. No matter how much we prefer to not to think about it, our death is guarranteed.

The death rate has not changed for thousands of years; It is still one per person.

I have an appointment with an attorney tonight. My brother and I have been talking about getting power of attorney for my dad... it's hard to bring up though. However, I did ask him about a will. He said he hasn't done it, but will be doing it shortly. When my brother goes there in July he's going to try to press it.

My sister emailed back and said she needs his b/c to get her Canadian citizenship and her permanent resident card, as she's applying for both. She was born in the U.S., but has lived here since she was a toddler. I don't think she needs his b/c for either of those applications, though.

Actually she may need it to prove that her parent was a Canadian citizen. Here's a link to documents needed to obtain citizenship. Your father's BC would one document she really might need.

Scroll down to the you were born outside Canada part.

Here is a link that might be useful: Canadian Citizenship.

I didn't mention this before, but she's not his natural daughter. My mother had three children before she met my father. I'm the first of four of his natural kids. We were raised to think of each other as just "brothers and sisters", but her natural father is American, as was my mother.

Susan, did your dad legally adopt your half-sister? If so, she may be able to use his birth certificate as proof of citizenship.

The funny thing is, why was she being so dodgy at first about why she wants it? If you have no reason to trust her, I can't imagine that she's up to any good. I definitely would not give it to her.

Lurker de-lurking :

PLease note that an application for Canadian citizenship and a Canadian permanent resident's card are totally different and totally different procedures :

To apply for citizenship, yes she would need a copy of a parent's birth certificate.

For a permanent resident's card, she would first need to apply to immigrate to Canada, a completely different process, and which does not need copies of parent's birth certificates. The permanent resident's card is issued on arrival in Canada to accepted immigrants.

I smell a HUGE rat, unfortunately. If she's been here in Canada since she was a toddler, and is over 18 AND immigrated legally (which I'm sure she did) : she would not be able to have a health card/social security card/drivers' licence etc, etc, etc, if she does not already have citizenship or a permanent resident's card (she can't hold/apply for both).

Good luck.

Ok, I've been busy. I did speak to a lawyer tonight. She doesn't specialize in immigration and citizenship laws, but she gave me some information. She said that my sister's behaviour is suspicious with her changing the story about why she needs dad's birth certificate, depending on who she talks to. I went into detail about her past (a lengthy connection to organized crime), and this lawyer states that there are two possible reasons she could use the b/c for, and neither of them are good. She said that some people sell this kind of ID. Worse than that, people access b/c's to forge documents... eg getting loans and mortgages in the name of the person whose ID is stolen.

Jodi, my dad did legally adopt my brother and sister. I might call Immigration tomorrow just to make sure about the citizenship issue.

Hi Susan - "On" the ball, apparently.

I'm sorry that I have no advice to offer.

But good wishes to all of you in the pilgrimage ahead.

ole joyful