Plllog,
I love HHI. I think I know exactly which episode you
are talking about. I am sure they edit the bloody scar
sceens before we see it. You would think someone from the
network would insist they have a sharp set of knives before
chopping away. I too cringe away peeking through my
fingers.

I used to be a Henckel girl until I fell in love with
Wushoff. They are the only knives for me. Not sure why
they seem to never dull and work so fantastically.
They are pricey. The BMW of knives but I love them.
The sharperner usually comes free with a purchase.
GOsh it should be free.

~boxer

boxerpups--I converted to being a Wusthoff girl from Henckels, too (after taking a knife skills class around 13, 14 years ago). The blade on the Wusthoff chef's knife was much better suited to the rocking motion utilized when chopping veggies than my Henckels chef knife.

They do dull though (esp my most used chef's knife)--we used to bring all our knives to Wusthoff for $1 per knife sharpening during their pre-holiday warehouse event/sale (we also replaced our serrated tomato knife with a brand new, sale-priced one during one of those sales because those cannot be sharpened).

Sadly, Wusthoff moved from Briarcliff Manor, NY (not exactly around the corner from us) to CT (even further away), so we haven't been there since they moved. We got some great deals on knives at their sales, so I hope to make the trip there at some point....

I have noticed that they seem to show a lot of people cooking or "chopping" in their kitchens for the big "open house" party. Probably most of those people just aren't very kitchen savy.

Ooooh. Wusthoff outlet. Yum!

I got a Henkels paring knife as a holiday gift and was so disappointed. It's the thought that counts, but there's that first bit of emotion that comes before mature reflection sets in. Turns out I like it just fine. And it has a terrific point.

It really is possible to learn to use a whetstone properly. My daddy made a lovely box with lid for one for me so that it's nice in the drawer.

I sort of have to agree with both Boxerpups and Cat_Mom (hee dogs vs. cats): My Wusthoff chef's knife does get dull, but it doesn't often go out of true.

BTW, for the non-knife savvy, there are many grades of knives from all of the manufacturers (Wusthoff makes 10 knives for $99 and single knives for $250), and you definitely get what you pay for. There's nothing wrong with using a ten dollar knife, but it's not going to last the rest of your life.

Boxer, did you see the one with the trampoline tomato which then was smoooshed?

Ooh--how did I miss the dog v cat thing? Funny!!!!

The warehouse sales were great--besides replacing the tomato knife, we got some other knives as well at special sales event prices (all of my Wusthoff knives are the Grand Prix's or Grand Prix II's).

Hey plllog, I still have my original Henckels paring knives (I have two different ones--I got all of my original Henckels knives at a Henckels outlet that's long since one bye-bye). They're fine as well.

Another great paring knife is the Kuhn-Rikon non-stick paring knife (we like to use ours to slice apples). They come in a bunch of yummy colors. A friend got me a yellow one at W-S a few years ago, and we use it often. Then, while at a W-S outlet with our own rococogurl this past summer, I picked up a blue one (with a coupon!).

(The Kuhn Rikon Original Swiss Peeler is a terrific peeler, BTW)

plllog, so when you comin' over to teach me how to use a whetstone??? :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Kuhn Rikon non-stick paring knives

WOW!! Cat Mom, I'd only ever seen about four colors--never fourteen!!! WOW!

Re the lessons, how about a video? I'm no expert! I go into it just hoping I won't screw up. :) (I haven't, yet, but don't have enough confidence to teach.) That's from lack of practice, however. I'm good to my knives and they don't often need sharpening, so I don't get enough practice. I had ever so long before the stone came into my kitchen when I just delivered unto daddy and miraculously sharp knives were given back to me.

The book An Edge in the Kitchen was recommended awhile back on GW awhile back. It's very interesting if you want to know about different kinds of knives and edges, and has a lot of information about different sharpening strategies, including something about automotive grit papers and an old mouse pad.

I can teach you to make borekes she said winsomely, but you probably already know.

We saw a bunch of colors at Sur la Table in NYC, and at Southern Seasons in NC. DH didn't think we needed another one, despite all the pretty colors :-( but the blue one was so cheap at the outlet (on sale and then a coupon), I couldn't pass it up. Besides, rococogurl talked me into it! LOL

I'll have to look online for some how-to videos. I've read that the Wusthoff two-stage sharpener is supposed to be pretty good. I have a Henckels sharpener (got that at a Henckels warehouse sale years ago). It's ok but not as good as prof sharpening.

What are borekes (asked sheepishly)?

The problem with a sharpener is that the angle is fixed and often not what you'd like. Also, I've heard that the edge doesn't hold so well. I miss the good sharpening people too. There was a cutlery store in Beverly Hills forever with the best sharpeners. They could do tailor shears accurately. They've gone. I think the specialty stores like Sur La Table and Williams-Sonoma took a lot of their knife sales, and they were older, so they probably retired instead of selling.

LOL on Rococogurl talking you into it!! It's funny. I will often buy myself a kitchen doodad on impulse if it really looks like it'll work. My latest is turkey lifters. I don't think I've bought myself a knife except when I lived abroad 25 years ago, though. People give them to me! Good ones. :) (I love presents! Giving 'em too though I don't think I've ever given a knife.)

Borekes are the Middle Eastern version of the Greek tiropita and spanakopita. Better? I think the roots of ours are Anatolian. Savory, triangular pastries made with filo (phyllo if you think Greek), filled with aromatic cheeses and potatoes, and lots of sesame oil. Or with spinach and herbs and salty cheese. Even a meat version with mince, spices, and eggs. They're really not hard to make, if you're accustomed to handling filo, and the filo one buys nowadays has conditioners (ick) that make it easier to handle, but people are always asking me to teach them. And I'm pretty expert that that. :) Not expert at actually making the filo. I was spoiled in my youth when we could buy the very best.

BTW, Israeli style borekes are very different. They're usually more of a flaky turnover, and are parve, so have potato but no cheese! Considering that the potato is just something for the cheese to cling to and bind with, that's a pale shade of the real thing.

Funny you should mention turkey lifters--I mentioned on another thread recently my deal-of-the-century A-C large roasting pan (late Thanksgiving night until 4 AM Black Friday Sale online; take an add'l % off plus another $25 off...). It came with the non-stick rack and A-C turkey lifters. Never had ones before. We used them on Christmas to lift our 21-22 lb turkey out of the pan/rack. Much better than our old method--trying to strategically place the carving fork and knife!

I might have had had borekes. I've definitely heard the name, just couldn't associate it with the correct food! You can teach me how to make them for sure! I've made tiropita and spanikopita (with store bought phyllo/filo), and hors d'oeuvre triangles filled with an artichoke-parmesan cheese mixture. I've also made baklava (the mother of an Armenian student gave me her recipe years ago), though not in ages. I don't know about conditioners in the frozen dough I've gotten in the supermarkets around here--it's a laborious, and ofttimes PITA process working with it any way you slice it. The results though are very much worth the effort!

I forwarded an email to rococogurl this morning. After I'd posted re: the W-S outlet, I received an email from them that they are closing the outlet at the outlet center nearest us. :-( (She did very well at that outlet--she got a Bamix immersion blender)

The edge(s) after using my Henckels sharpener doesn't hold nearly as well as it did after Wusthoff did it for us. I will have to do some research and teach myself how to do this. Maybe a new career is beckoning??? LOL!

So I'm officially in mourning for the outlet closing. I don't buy much kitchenware because even after I had a house sale in 01 to unload most of the stuff I no longer use (I used to run a participation cooking school so I had 'everything') I still have way too much.

But there are certain pieces which really have been improved. We get those little Kuhn paring knives here -- with matching blade cover -- for $7 each. Can't beat that and they really hold an edge well. DH is fond of using the Henkel's paring knife to pry things open so it's minus a tip.

On the sharpening front, because so many of my knives are 30+ and were used for years and years they needed sharpening constantly. I purchased a Chef's Choice electric sharpener a few years ago and it's been fabulous. Sharpens any knife perfectly. For me really worth the $$ because I can't stand dull knives.

I know how to use a whetstone and a steel but neither really can match the electric sharpener which has magnets so the blade takes the right edge. Only thing I learned recently is that the Asian style knives need to have a slightly different edge than the Euro style so if you have the Shuns you want a sharpener for those vs for the Germans.

Fortunately, catmom and I still can go to the Crate & Barrel outlet this coming summer. But losing W-S is a serious bummer. I still need a good non-stick frittata pan.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chef's Choice

Cat_Mom, if you've made all of that you don't need me to teach you! I can send you the recipe when I have my other computer back. :) How about a time step. Do you tap dance? If not, I can teach you a time step. :)

Rococogurl, that's very interesting about the electric sharpener. You're the first person I've known to prefer one, but I can see how it is superior to the manual ones. It's something to consider...

Speaking of which, does anyone know about edging ceramic knives? I don't have any, only a Kyocera paddle mandoline, but the cutter on that is impressive. Do ceramic knives need sharpening and straightening?

Interesting thread. I am tempted to ask you all where/how you store your knives as I am starting to look at drawer inserts. But may-be that would be hijacking and I should start a new thread about knife storage?

No, no, Sayde, that's not a hijack. That's a tangent. We welcome tangents. You should do a search for prior threads. There are a few really good ones that aren't that old.

I use edge guards. I don't like wood knife blocks at all. Additionally, it's easy to carry the edge guard to the sink rather than carrying a sharp knife through a busy kitchen.

Given the edge guards, I just keep the knives in drawer organizer trays. Very easy to find the one I want, and to see from the size of the guard which blade it is.

Oh yes rococogurl--there is always C&B (though I buy more/more often at the regular C&B than their outlet).

Maybe you will need to come over and sharpen all of my knives for me with your handy electric sharpener, hmmmm? :-)

plllog--I rest on my laurels (dubious though they may be!). I haven't made any of the above in years. Maybe if you teach me, I'll get inspired again! Tee-hee!

I'm afraid I'd make a lousy tap dancer. It took me about 1/2 a dozen sweet 16's to learn the "hustle" (back in the late 70's)! I don't think I'd put you through the torture of trying to teach me to tap!

sayde--I keep mine in a knife block. We had a decent sized Henckels block with slots for steak knives, and then upgraded to their largest block (also with slots for steak knives). Ran to a large (now defunct) Fortunoff's to get it. Wusthoff didn't make a block with enough total slots (or enough in the right config/sizes) for the knives we have (after we'd added to our collection at that last warehouse sale).

Our colorful paring knives, with their own little knife guards, are stored in one of the kitchen tool drawers.

Okay, Cat_Mom, the borekes it is. Because I can't teach you to use a whetstone. Though maybe the trick is to go electric like Rococogurl. ;) Send me an e-mail and I'll send you the lesson. ;)

I got four sets of Henckels for my engagement party! Either there was a great sale, or they really didn't like my DH.

I watched some videos this afternoon--would be neat to learn how to sharpen with a whetstone properly. Will research electric and other options as well. No rush, though I really should find someone good around here to sharpen my knives in the meantime.

I'll send an email now for my lesson!

missmuffet--that was funny! LOL

After buying the little Kuhn knife I spent some time in Zabar's knife dept where I noticed colored plastic knife guards. My knives previously inhabited a drawer without a knife block and since DH had his eye problems it's no longer safe that way. Knife guards are different colors, sizes, about $2 each and do the job.

Wish I had a kitchen with enough drawers to build in special uses -- I adore this knife drawer (scroll down) which unfortunately came after my kitchen was built.

catmom -- I sharpen for free. You can always bring your knives over and we can have an excursion to our wonderful local organic butcher and the farmer's market.

roc--you're on! We'll plan something for 2011 (when NO snow is predicted for the week!!!). :-)

Plllog,

Yes, the Squished tomato!!!! I am sure someone got cut but
the camera was shut off to find bandaids and back to
filming when the bloody mess was gone. Scary when a knife
does not cut.

Did you see the Costa Rican cook who pulls muffins out
of the oven without an oven mit?
In the words of Dr. Phil "What Were you thinking?......."

Wustoff makes a cool sharpener that was on sale over the
holidays for under $20. but maybe you had to spend a
$100 on knives which is easy to do. Can't remember where
I saw it. Santa missed the boat and did not get me one.

Oh I just found it on Amazon for $19.00 great price.

Happy New Year everyone. I am off to cut up some veggies
for a veggie platter using my sharp Wustoff.

~boxer

If you hone your knives with a wet stone as I do almost every-other use, it takes but a few passes to get them scary sharp. (dull is even scarier). I use a 2.5" x 8" man-made stone, about 400 grit. Very fast sharpening. I sharpen my planes and chisels with the 8000 grit stone, and then polish them on a wheel, but a kitchen knife doesn't need to be quite so sharp as the carpenter's tools.
Casey

There was a cutlery store in Beverly Hills forever with the best sharpeners.

Plllog,
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease tell me that you are not referring to Standard Cutlery and Supply. I used to live near them, bought knives there, sent all our knives there for sharpening after moving away for years and years, and figured that if I ever gave up on my stones or needed help again, I could always use them again. Are they gone? Nooooooo. Say it ain't so.
Anyhoo, y'all may want to refer to Knifeforums website for more info. on sharp knives. Korin sells knifemaster Kramer's video on sharpening, also. (Gotta' love reading about people who buy scanning electron microscopes just so they can see how sharp their blades really are. . .)

Here is a link that might be useful: PDF that probably won't interest very many

Forgot. plllog, I've never owned a ceramic knife but my impression is that they don't require sharpening and that's the benefit though perhaps that's only certain brands.

KD, u referring to the place on Burton Way or the hardware store that once was on Bev Dr?

It was on Little Santa Monica, near Rodeo. Tons and tons and tons of cutting implements. Three generations of a German family owned it. They took knives and tools to their home (maybe in La Canada? or I could be imagining that) to sharpen them.

boxerpups--Wusthoff has two, two-stage sharpeners (both priced about the same on Amazon, though orig prices are $5 diff).

Which one?

The 2922: http://www.wusthof.com/desktopdefault.aspx/52_view-117/categories-117/tabid-114/407_read-3930/categories-210

Or the 2904:
http://www.wusthof.com/desktopdefault.aspx/52_view-117/categories-117/tabid-114/407_read-3492/categories-210

Yep. The one on Little Santa Monica. :( sigh It was a friend who told me, so I just called. No longer in service.

KD, thanks for the great link!

Rococogurl, thanks for the info. I guess it's just hard for me to wrap my head around the never needs sharpening idea.

Casey, I'd have to agree. I love sharp knives, but don't need them carpentry sharp! :) I've never known someone who used a stone so frequently. I do need to sharpen more with my new kitchen (i.e., new willingness to cook), so I think I'll try your couple of swipes all the time method and gain some more confidence with my stone.

Boxerpups, do you really want to know what they were thinking? They were thinking that the store bought muffins they were taking out of the cold oven must look more appealing on camera than IRL because that shiny coating of hairspray looks too much like incipient mold. ;)

Miss Muffet, I'm still giggling. :)

plllog -- agreed. Just cannot believe it could be though lately I find there's a lot of new stuff out there so I'm always reluctant to dismiss. Then again, I sprang for a new Shun knife and don't care for it at all.

Sad. :(

The ceramic blades do need sharpening from time to time. You can send the Kyoceras to a place in San Diego to do it. Kuhn-Rikon, well, I don't know; haven't tried. I finally came to the conclusion the Kyoceras were not all they were cracked up to be. Too brittle and definitely did not retain their edge as advertised. My parer went to Goodwill.
Sur La Table has a three-stage, manual sharpener that puts a 15 degree edge on knives that the store folks swear by, fwiw, but I haven't tried it. They couldn't give me grit information. Might be worth a try. Huge store sale going on now.

I made what I consider to be one of the dumbest purchases of my kitchen life about 8? Years ago.

I bought Messermeister Meridan Elite knives at a very steep price. I researched endlessly before making my purchase and joyously bought about 10 knives to set me up "for life". They are supposedly returnable no questions asked, guaranteed for life...

About 3 years into it the blades are still spectacular but the handles have each cracked over during years 3 - 5. To this day I am baffled as to why. They are useable but clearly have at least one big crack each.

It wasn't until I called the knife store I bought them from that I found out I have to deal with the people in germany to return them. I can't even call them because I don't speak german (I've tried!) so I have to follow the instructions on the web site and mail my knife set to the company in germany... and just hope they either fix them or send new ones back. No people, no tracking information, no return information, nothing. And the turn around time last time I checked the websites was several months.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

FOrgot to link...

Here is a link that might be useful: My knives

Try the folks at Kifeforums.com and ask if anyone has any personal experience with sending knives to Meridian Elite or can help you. Just a thought.

Oh, Morgne, that is disappointing! I was expecting some kind of wood handle. Those look like a version of plastic? And they've split? How awful!

I love the Messermeister edge guards. Too bad about the knives. :)

You can put a tracking and signature certificate on the package when you send them. I think it'll be fine. Some of these top German companies don't do a lot of hand holding but are the best on the actual service.

KD, thanks for the info. Saves me a lot of bother. I do like the paddle mandoline, but it doesn't get a lot of impact. Mostly tomatoes for lunch platters and cucumbers for cucumber salads. I'll enjoy the ceramic blade on that, and stick to my Wusthoff for most things.

Thanks rococogurl, pillog and cat-mom. I am always just amazed at all the knowledge and wisdom -- I just mailed rococogurl's photo to DH's computer to "put my order in" for one of those in-drawer knife racks, and I'm going to get some edge guards.

My Kuhn-Rikon paring knives aren't ceramic. So far they are holding their edges beautifully. A friend of mine who's an amazing Asian cook used my green one and said to me "you know, when I picked this up I thought it looked like a toy but it works really well." FWIW

I've had a couple of knife handles separate from the tang but those are really old so it wasn't a surprise. Sorry about your knives Morgne, very distressing especially after the researching.

Which mandoline do you have plllog? Again, I always used my electric (Cuisinart) LOL!

This looks like my paddle mandoline. It has four thicknesses. It's fantastic for even slices on small quickies.

I don't like the Cuisinart for slicing. I have a big DeBuyer V-slicer for large scale work, and larger vegetables. It's amazing. It's also as much a pain to clean up as a Cuisinart. :( Generally, I just use my 8" chef's knife. I can't draw a straight line, or even sew straight, so it's no surprise I can't always cut straight. When it really matters, for a platter or for something layered, I'll use the mandoline.

That looks handy -- link is much appreciated.

U one of the thermapen fans? This exchange makes me think we should put up a most-used/trusted kitchen gadget/small appliance thread.

Rococogurl, what is it that you don't like about your Shun? I'm curious--which one do you have that you don't like? They do have a very different feel than the German knives. I sprang for the Shun Elite santoku, and loved it so much that I bought a paring knife and utility knife as well. (Ebay) Lightweight, and so sharp that it makes prep go really fast. Shun supposedly offers free sharpening if you send your knives in, but I haven't done that yet.

Cj

Interesting idea for a thread, but do you think it would bring out trolls?

I'm not a thermapen fan...yet! I suppose I could just buy one, but I keep thinking someone will give me one. Maybe I need to bring out the false eyelashes. ;) My dial thermometers work fine, but I find cooking to temperature challenging and still do better to time. Will a thermapen change that?

After using a santoku, I decided that I liked it a lot, as I would enjoy a trip to Japan, but that I don't want to live there. I think it's a matter of the 8" Wusthoff is so much a part of my hand, anything else feels odd. Though I did get used to the Henkels paring knife fast, even though it's not my ideal handle. Actually, the uncomfortable handle guard might be a benefit. I think the way I hold it to get my pinky out of the way may give me more control.

it's no surprise I can't always cut straight

OMG you could be describing me! Ask my DH how NOT straight I cut loaves of bread...! LOL

cj47 -- I got the 5.5 santoku. It's a beauty and very well balanced but I'm not connecting with the shape of the blade. I often forget I have it when I'm cooking -- not a good sign. As Plllog said, an 8" Henkels/Wustof Euro knife feels "right" in her hand and I think I'm the same. Also, I learned with those so it just may be that I'm not getting the action I expect.

The deal with them is that you register the knives online -- like an appliance and then send them in for sharpening. It's an amazing service.

plllog -- Funny you suggest trolls would come out on a gadget thread. A shoes-off in the house thread or certain other topics for sure. LOL.

cat mom -- you are one of the straightest people I know!

Happy New Year all. Fingers crossed this one will be happier and healthier than last year.

I've switched from timing freak to fragrance (sounds nicer than "smell") and thermometer freak, so Thermapen is on my just-about-to-buy list. I've been resisting because I read a few reviews that said the device fritzed out after a year or after an accidental submersion, but Thermapen seems to be good about replacing them, so I'm going for it. I have a bunch of Taylors about already and use them all the time. Then someone sent me an overly complex gadget for the holidays. It will go back this week and Thermapen, here I come.
As for santukos, I've used a couple of santukos and decided that the drop chop just isn't my motion. My original knives were the old and ugly Sabatiers that sharpen up like razors, but do not hold their edges well and look quite, um, patinated, shall we say, but are still often my default knives. I don't know if one can still get the old carbon ones, since they are so ugly by current tastes. Much nicer to use, however, than the ones I've seen more recently. Have a Misono that's about as heavy as I like to go, and keeps an edge forever, and a large Shun chef's (no granton, no santuko, etc.) that's nice and light. At this point, I think the lighter, the better.

Happy New Year all! Have to thank noisy plumbing for being up in time for the tournament pre-show. groan

KD, I'm a smeller too! When I was a young adult and living in a tiny town, if I wanted something, I had to make it. No oven, but baked more than at any other time of my life. I learned then that it was done when it started to smell good. I've found the same to be mostly true for a lot of cooking as well. :)

A lot of my trouble adjusting to the thermometer is that following the directions precisely on a chicken, for example, I find that even though the temperature is correct, it isn't completely cooked. When I do it by time, it comes out fine!

There is a useful DVD available from Zwilling/Henckels titled "Instructional Knife Skills" that may be of interest.

Another poster in another thread (sorry, I forgot who) suggested the Chef'sChoice 1520 knife sharpener. I found it very helpful in re-conforming many older and abused knives I uncovered in moving stored stuff into my almost finished kitchen. It leaves them quite sharp, as advertised, and should be easier for most than using a whetstone to keep the correct angle along the entire blade. It is designed for both 15 and 20-degree knife angles thereby addressing American, European, and Asian configurations.

kas

As I type this post with TWO bandaged fingers, you guys are definitely inspiring me to make 2011 the year of learning about, and investing in, real kitchen knives! Can't believe how long I've managed to turn out darn good meals without proper cutting tools -- but with a whole lot of blood , sweat and tears to show for it as well! As such, I believe this thread now sends me over the dull edges of my current culinary skills level and into resolving to buy some real knives this year!:-) Thank you, Plllog, Roc and all my knife-savvy GW friends! Happy New Year too!

martha, if you've a mind to visit Zabar's knife section give me a holler.

Kitchendetective - If you want to replace your carbon steel Sabatiers or just good carbon steel knives you can get them at E. Dehillerin in Paris or on their website.

I now own 5 of their knives - all carbon steel and ugly as you can get - from a 20" chefs knife to a 3" - they hold their edges and sharpen to razor sharp. My Wusthofs, not so much. I've taken to using the Wusthofs for jobs where I just don't care what happens to the edge.

Wow! My carping turned into a good deed! Marthavilla, you've made my day.

Phillycook, thanks for the reference. I'm not sure I want anything sharper than my Wusthoff, given my non-straightness of hand...though maybe that much sharper a knife would straighten me out? I've always wanted to try a carbon steel knife though, but hadn't found a good one, so I'll check it out. Thanks!

Oh, Martha, do be careful. Phillycook, thanks for reminding me about Dehillerin. I do not think I could ever replace my Sabatiers--they are that much a part of me. I actually stood and stared at one the other day, trying to determine if I capable of parting with it as my younger son would like a 10" chef's knife. You've given me the perfect solution!

Fans of vintage Sabatiers, check this out. Pre war forgings, heroically hidden from the Germans (maybe) or from the tax collector (more likely), for fifty-some years.

Here is a link that might be useful: Prewar Sabatier Forgings

Ha roc--straightest girl you know? DH would beg to disagree!

So, no input on either of the two handheld Wusthoff sharpeners? Besides one having a dedicated scissor sharpener, I don't know if there is anything else different about the two (e.g. quality?).

I will take a look at the electric ones mentioned here, but would like to know more about the other two if anyone has experience with either or both.